I've hear many say that slugging the barrel will provide you with the exact measurements of Bore and Rifling which will enable to utilize tighter (or proper fitting) bullet tolerances.
How can this be helpful with purchased bullets? Is this only beneficial for using custom-sized casting molds?
Is this something that can easily be done at home, or is this for the gunsmith?
I have seen slugging kits but how easy is it to damage a barrel?

Well, first, you shouldn't damage a barrel if you use soft slugs and some care.

Muzzleloader roundballs are very soft. So are *some* fishing sinkers - make sure you can scratch any slug with your fingernails first.

A brass rod is probably the best bet for driving the slugs if you want to ensure no possible damage to the bore.

It's beneficial for several reasons:

1. If you can identify a problem (such as undersized or oversized cylinder throats), then you can have a plan to do something about it.

2. There are different sizes of bullets that can be found, if you need something that's a bit larger or smaller than the 'standard' diameter.

3. Saves time and money when you have a better starting point for working up your loads, or even with your selection of factory ammunition.

4. Explain any problems or issues you may have had with previous loads / ammunition (peace of mind).

5. If you are lapping the barrel to smooth it out, slugging is basically the only way to gage your progress.

Hope this helps....

Mike's got it covered well.

You may notice that good custom casters (Like this site's sponsor) offer their bullets in a variety of sizes. Slugging the barrel(and measuring the slug) can help find the right lead bullet for your barrel.

Measuring the slugs can be a choe...esp; with odd-number lands. The lead fishing sinker trick is probably better for people who don't have muzzle loading round ball, and don't want to buy a box of 100 to use just one or two.

Usually don't have a lot of options with jacketed bullets...are afew off sized ones for some calibers, but generally you have to play with what's available.

Arthur_500 -

Using pure lead & brass rod as Mike suggested, there's little chance of damage (unless you hit your fingers!) and anyone can do it.
But to be sure you TRULY fill the rifling grooves, BACK the slug w/another rod as an "anvil". A friend or a friendly vise to hold the 2nd rod is helpful.
Good luck,
Terry

Rigby275,

"Back the slug w/another rod as an "anvil""- I don't understand. How long of a rod? How thick?

Since the Meister kits are unavailable for .44mag, and I'm tired of waiting for them, I'll be buying sinkers and the tech manual this week from Beartooth.

I was thinking also of buying a wooden dowel to hammer the sinker through the bbls of my 1894s. Are you suggesting that I put a rod between the wooden dowel and the sinker? I can't see in my mind how this will help....Help!

Thanks,

1x2

What Terry was referring to , I beleive is sandwiching the lead slug between the two rods in the bore, then with the one rod firmly supported, lightly hammering on the other to obturate the slug to totally fill the groove dimensions of the bore. While this is effective with somewhat undersized slugs, it isn't necessary if using an oversized oval egg sinker.

The proper sinker size for your .44 is a #8, and it is sufficiently oversize to get an absolutely true reading of groove dimensions. The reasons for the egg sinker are many and they are readily available from most any tackle department in the "Marts" or fishing supply store.

Mike has the proceedure pretty well outlined in his post.

Check this out for more information:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/print.php?itemnumber=13&table=faq&type=FAQ

This should help.

God Bless,

Hi 1x1 -

What Marshall said. :-)

Firstly, pure lead "should" be used - upsets most easily & fully.
Harder alloys (just sayin' here that I don't know how hard your sinkers may be) take more pounding & are more difficult to fully swage into the grooves.
Note here that it takes a good bit of pounding in ANY case.

Secondly, with wood, you'll more likely have a shattered dowel than a driven slug. I use 1/4" brass rod.
Ideally, rods would be a slip fit in the bore, but mine work ok.

The "anvil" - picture a backing rod thru the chamber, the slug, the driving rod, then your hammer. Lengths aren't REALLY critical as long as the two rods add up to more than bbl. length by a foot or so (for convenient handling). You'll end up measuring the groove diam. at whatever point the two meet, noting that dim. normally vary a LITTLE thru-out the bbl. length in any case.

The important point - you're forcing the slug, between the two rods, to FULLY fill the grooves, rather than accepting whatever groove-filling allows the slug to transit the bbl.

P.S. - Marshall, PM or e-mail re: stock finish plz. Tnx.

regards,

Marshall & Rigby,

Thanks, it's starting to make sense!

I have no sinkers yet; I'm inclined to buy sinkers from Beartooth, as I'd be "assured" of getting "pre-oversized" sinkers, "tailored" for my .44s, and not concern myself with proper "softness".

As for the procedure, my thinking was:

Remove square bolt from Marlin. Insert sinker into throat; using progressively longer dowels, drive the sinker down the bbl and out the muzzle- resulting in a sinker that measured the tightest restriction in the barrel, although I wouldn't know where in the bbl that might be except for guessing by "hammer-driving resistance".

This should work with "known soft" sinkers- yes?

Alternatively, with "harder" sinkers:

According to Rigby, I may be using 3 or 4 sinkers per bbl., since in any event the sinkers aren't soft enough to fill the grooves (but why do I care? The lands are going to be the most restrictive, or, the smallest DIAMETER in the bbl will be measured "around" the lands- yes?).

So the procedure is to place a rod (the "anvil") on the downstream end of the direction of travel, held in place (now that'll be a trick), and the sinker driven against it. I'll mark the "anvil" so I know how deep into the barrel I am, and use one new sinker for each spot to obtain measurements around the dovetail cuts for the front and rear sights, and the dovetail cut for the magazine tube "carrier" (one is an octagonal- barreled cowboy). I've read that these are the prime suspect areas for bulges into the barrel. This would result in my expending 3 sinkers per barrel.

How am I doing?


Thank you for your help,

1x2

Hi 1x2 -

Sorry 'bout shortchanging you on the name. :-)

It really depends on what info you're after - groove, l-t-l, or tightest spots dimensions.

For l-t-l ( paper-patching, mebbe) ANY oversize slug will accurately give you that for the tightest spot.

For max groove , the backed slug (never said it'd be easy :-)) will give best results, tho ONLY for the tightest spot it's driven thru.

For tightest spot readings, you can only get "first & last" with confidence.
Drive a slug from one end under the cut (if that is in fact the first tight spot), anvil-back it for max swage, then BACK it completely out.
Drive a slug from the other end to sight cut, repeat procedure.

Mag. cut may be tighter than avg. dim., yet LARGER than either "end" tight spot, which would then swage the slug down to IT'S size in driving it on out. So you can't really "know" that dim. by this method w/o cutting the barrel.
I wouldn't feel right recommending this. :-)

A further note - all of this is of REAL importance only if bench-testing shows there is a definite problem (NOTHING groups acceptably), as part of "fine-tuning" for best accuracy, or for basic pp'ing dims.
If your rifle shoots a load it likes w/accuracy fitting your criteria, this'd all be an exercise in exercising. :-)

regards,

Rigby,

Thanks, I started the day as 1x1, Marshall fixed me up.

This bbl dia. is why I'm not out shooting today!

I have 2 Marlin 1894s in .44mag, the 24" cowboy and an 1894 w/20" bbl. with barrel bands (Model 1894, no letters/no suffix), both with "ballard" type deep grooves, so they'll shoot lead just fine, in theory. Lazercast or Meister lead bullets is all I shoot (depending on which dia is required), and at velocities at or below 1500 fps.

The cowboy I've had for a while; it'll group everything at 100 yds. from .429" lswc's to .431" rnfp in both 240gr and 300gr with no problem. I'm guessing it's a .429" bbl due to its age and ability to group the .429" bullets...it's forgiving on the charge of 2400, also- not really picky- my style of rifle!

The "1894" I "found" new at a store, and bought it a few months ago as my "2nd", hoping that because of the model number (out of production now) it would have a .429" bbl. This is because a year or two ago SAAMI changed the specs on .44mag TO .431" from "I don't know what", but I'm guessing .429. (I have no idea why they changed, but I could rue my choice of the .44mag in the not so distant future!)

Objective: It would be nice to be able to buy only one size bullet for both rifles and realize good groups.

But the 1894-20" won't keep any of the 4 bullets (2 sizes x 2 weights) on a full 16x16" target at 100 yds with charges running from 16 to 20gr of 2400- and I think 2400 is a good powder for the .44. Given this, I figured I'd be well served to know what bbl dia I'm dealing with, to start to minimize my accuracy variables.

BTW, I used to have two other levers with barrel bands, a SS Marlin and a Puma that both shot as well as the cowboy...had to use .431" in the "other" Marlin (it preferred the 300gr bullet) and the Puma, like the cowboy, would group anything you stuffed through it.

I've tried shooting while seated on a bench, resting my elbows and the barrel on some sandbags, but mostly shoot seated on the ground, elbows on knees- groups are a little better off the sandbags.

I would slug the the cowboy just for yuks since I was planning on checking the barrel-banded critter cuz I figured I'd have extra sinkers left over.

Given this data, do you have a suggestion?

Thanks,

1x2

Hi 1x2 -

OK, then. UNLESS IT'S SUMPIN' REALLY WIERD, like a .426 or .434 bbl. -
If one shoots either size fine, the other shoots neither fine, then the BASIC prollem with the "bad boy" IS NOT groove diam/bullet size.
(But if you ever need to know - you'll be able to find out!) :-)

So it could be anything ELSE that can cause a levergun not to "do rite".
You'll simply have to go thru, eliminating the possibilities 'til you hit the right one.

Wish I had an easy answer for you.

regards,

Rigby,

yeah, it's a trip-anything else that's "wrong", like the barrel bands exerting too much pressure, should be wrong consistently, shot to shot, with the same load...but maybe not.

Thanks for the sympathy vote, though.

1x2

Arthur; I didn't hijack your thread intentionally, just started with clarification request; hope you got something more out of it!

...I picked up a 38" solid brass rod; I'll round the edge off one end (to a rnfp) to drive sinkers with...

1x2