I've never been very concerned with turning case necks on my leverguns but my 444 cases are lasting a pretty good while and in light of the cost of this brass... they are going to last a long time.

When I had bolt guns I had the Forster Case Trimmer with both the outside Neck Turner attachments and Neck Reamer. I wasn't overly impressed with this tool, especially in light of the expense, a lot of setup and a lot of chatter in operation. It went the way of the bolt guns. Forster doesn't list an outside neck turner pilot for the 444 Marlin. They do list a neck reamer (inside) turner

If Lee made a neck reamer, I wouldn't be asking about one. I know their tool would be simple and to the point. I see that L.E. Wilson makes one but I can't find a reference to one for the 444 Marlin or caliber. I do notice that they accept special orders for $20 and it will take 30 days. Lyman has an Outside Neck Turner that attaches to their Universal Trimmer as does RCBS. I would like to stay away from buying a bench mounted trimmer.

Anybody have any other suggestions or comments about: The Forster Hand-Held Outside Neck Turner The L. E. Wilson Inside Neck Reamers What is the difference in turning the outside or inside of the neck? Any other suggestions for turning necks?

Well, Dog -

Been using the Forster neck turner for years (don't use the inside reamer much) and am generally satisfied with the results, although it does take repeated passes over the neck to get the "mill marks" off and a nice smooth finish.

Hornady makes a hand-held neck turner, don't they?

Thanks kdub... I had looked at the Hornady unit and really liked it... lightweight, great for large hands, and precise .0001" movement of the cutter. The madrels are only available through .375" though.

I fail completely to see why you want to neck turn the .444. The only reason to do so is for accuracy, and if shooting in a Marlin, you are not going to see any benifit on paper or in the field. I know Marlins LA are accurate rifles, but neck turning accurate, I don't think so. If anything, thinning the neck walls will make your brass wear out quicker, not last longer. I use the Forster neck turner on my match .50 BMG ammo, but for hunting rounds and especially for the lever actions, it is a total waste of time IMO. If you are needing to thin the necks because brass has flowed into the neck and they are now too thick, then it is time to discard that brass anyway as head separation is just around the corner. I do have some Norma .416 Rigby brass that is horribly thick necked and it must be turned (for this I inside neck ream, this is a elephant gun, not a bench rest rifle) to thin it some so there is room to release the bullet. No way a bullet can be pushed back into a fired case the necks are so thick.
It's your rifle and time so do as you want, but honestly, neck turning a Lever Action 444?
The Forster tool works OK on the .50 BMG, but the adjustments are too coarse for my liking. The K&M tool is much better. The way the Forster holds the case also is prone to slipping, at least on the .50 BMG. While the Forster does the job, I am not at all impressed with it. The next lot of .50 BMG match ammo I prep will be with the K&M tool. A bit more money but it has a proven track record.

I fail completely to see why you want to neck turn the .444. The only reason to do so is for accuracy, and if shooting in a Marlin, you are not going to see any benifit on paper or in the field.

Big Bore...

Thanks for your comments but I respectfully disagree with your assessment of neck turning for the 444 Marlin. You do it for the same reasons as any rifle. My 444 delivers sub MOA accurancy and I want to do anything to help that along. With the cast bullet shooting, I believe this task is even more criticial than with some of my other firearms. I'm shooting bullets that are .432" in diameter and with just a slight increase in wall thickness I'm at the dimensions of my chamber casting. The brass has a lot of life left in it but with the bullets being .003" greater in diameter there isn't a lot of room left.

My concerns about the Forster HOT are just what you noted about the tool. I think there will be a problem with the case slipping in the handle and the cutter adjustments see rather course at .001". This is probably okay for what I'm trying to achieve but the Hornady unit is .0001" for the same $$$. Forster has a great web site that helps with tool and pilot selection and the HOT is it for the 444 Marlin as the information indicates that that any of the neck reamer assessories for the bench mounted trimmers are "N/A" for the caliber.

I didn't think about the K&M Products but will check into their tool.

Thanks...

Michael

Big Bore...

Thanks again for the heads-up on K&M. I just spoke with Ken and he does make mandrels for any caliber. He said that for the big bore calibers, such as the 444 Marlin, he suggests using the tool designed for the .50 BMG. It seems my need as expressed above is common and he suggested that I send him three sized cases and the mandrel would be custom fit. Not bad for $60!

The Forster tool just seems cheap to me. The more I thought about the more “things” I came up with that bother me. There is so much backlash in the adjusting stem that you really have to be careful when adjusting cut depth. You cannot just move the cutter blade down one more notch and expect to get what you want. The aluminum screw that acts to secure the case is also IMO a rather poor design. How it would work on a smaller case I don't know, but it slips like a big dog on the .50 BMG. Like I said, when it comes time to prep more cases I am going to get the K&M. One other thing about the Forster, it seems to clog up rather badly with chips and requires frequent cleaning. I usually have to clean twice each pass and that is with only removing .0005 at a time (half a notch). The K&M may also, but with the other "bugs" in the Forster the chips clogging up the cutter is just one bug too many. If that were the only problem, OK, but not so. Once you learn all the idiosyncrasies of the Forster, it does do an adequate job, and the end results are very uniform IF YOU DON’T SCREW UP, but I think they are making an already tedious job even more so. As Monica said to Clinton, close, but no cigar.

Guess I must have one of the older models of the Forster-Applet case trimmer/reamer/neck turner units.

The case holder has a steel collet on the case base end and a steel mandral that slips inside the case mouth on the other end. The neck reducing cutter has no "notches", just an allen screw head for cutting depth adjustment. Can't find an aluminum screw anywhere on it - all screws are allen head steel screws. The crank arm and it's handle ARE aluminum, held in place with a steel allen head screw. This crank arm is removable to install a steel drive adapter for motorized use.

kdub... Do you have the bench mounted unit?

I thought I would add a link to a web page with a pretty good description of the K&M Tools (http://precisionreloading.com/KMProducts.htm) that I found. This is a vendor but K&M number is 860-684-5680.

http://precisionreloading.com/images/Kmmacn.jpg

I also like how the tool uses the Lee Auto-Prime shellholds… one less thing to buy and keep track of as I’m already using that tool.

Mine is the hand held unit that outside neck turns only and I think it is made specifically for the .50 BMG.
The unit I have uses a plastic handle with an aluminum thumb screw to hold (or try to hold) the case. The cutter head is aluminum with a thumb screw to adjust depth and a set screw to lock it. The mandral is steel of course as is the cutter. There is a full 5/8 turn backlash in the unit. That is if you want to change direction the knob turns 5/8 of a turn before any ajustment is made.

Big Bore and others...

I wanted to follow up my topic with a report and initial impression of K&M Service Micro Neck Turner... it's simply outstanding and is exactly what I was looking for.

Basically, I asked Ken Markle to set me up for neck turning all four of my leveraction calibers; my 30-30, 300 Sav., 35 Rem., and 444 Marlin.

What I received Saturday was some really great tools. For getting the cases ready to neck turn, I was sent a Press Expandiron Adapter and 30, 35, and 43 caliber mandrels. The adapter (PN EXPIRC) is 7/8-14 threaded to fit in any press and the individual caliber mandrels thread into the adapter. He suggests that these expanders need to be used before case neck turning because commercial die manufactures have no set standards for the expander diameters in their dies. That is true. The K&M mandrels will expand the case necks to the proper diameter to meet the pilots used in the case neck turning tool.

I ended up receiving two case neck turning tools. The standard tool for the 30-30, 300 Sav., and the 35 Rem. He sent me the larger 50 BMG Neck Turner tool for the 444 Marlin. Both of these tools use a common Case Holder and Hex Drive Handle. The case holder retains the individual case via the Lee Auto-Prime Shell holders.

Mr. Markle took the time to write me a nice letter addressing some of the issues neck turning the 444 and my other leveraction calibers. He also sold me a 50 BMG Neck Turner "blem" inorder to save me some money. I really appreciated that move.

I have taken the time to use the tools on each caliber and they are simply outstanding! These are exact, micrometer quality tools that are very easy to adjust to your needs and use. There is no slack in the operation and the cutter has micrometer adjustments and is designed so that the shaved brass does nothing but clear the tool immediately. These tools are very easy to turn, a child could turn the necks with these tools.

The setup as I recieved them with Expandiron Case Neck Expander and Mandrel, the complete Microadjustable Case Neck Turning Tool Body, w/Pilot & Case Holder, the Lee Auto-Prime Shell Holder, and the Hex Handle Drive was only $55 for the standard tool and $55 (it would have been $75 had it not been a "blem") for the BMG tool. To add a cartridge to either tools would cost $9 for the additional mandrel and $9 for the additional pilot ($18). You would want to use the BMG tool for the 444, 45-70, or 450 Marlin.

Today I ordered a Dial Indicator that fits into the body of either tool. It allows you to preadjust the tool to a given neck thickness prior to placing the case on the pilot. The indicator has a .0005" resolution.

K&M caters to the benchrest crowd but Mr. Ken Markle never looked down on this levergun shooter and really delivered a quality hand tool. Like I said at the start of this thread; I wanted a hand tool over the bench mounted lathe type tool and I really like what I found. Thanks Big Bore for suggesting I check with K&M!

I've got my reloading room down for tile, paint, etc. so my big computer is out of service. As soon as it's up I will post some pictures of the individual tools and how they work. I will keep you posted.

Michael

Contact info for K&M Services:

Mr. Ken Markle
K & M Services
5430 Salmon Run Rd.
Dover, PA 17315
717-292-3175

Here are some pictures of the tools mentioned in the previous reply...