This may be a stupid question, so parden me for any grief.
Which action is stronger? I'm guessing the falling block is stronger because that chunk of metal is behind the case.

Bill

This may be a stupid question, so parden me for any grief.
Which action is stronger? I'm guessing the falling block is stronger because that chunk of metal is behind the case.

Bill

The rolling block takes all of it's thrust from the fired cartridge on the two pins, as opposed to the falling block having steel sholders behind the block, making the falling block a stronger action.

Lee L

The rolling block is a rather weak action, poorly suited for today's cartridges and loads. It is pretty much in the same strength category as the early trap-door Springfield, which is to say, keep pressures under 25,000 CUP. Take the falling block every time. They are usually very strong. The Winchester low-wall, as I recall, was somewhat limited and was usually chambered for low pressure cartridges. The Ruger #1, #3, Browning falling block, Winchester high-wall, sharps, etc. were generally pretty tolerant of higher pressures. The modern Ruger falling blocks and the Browning 1885 I think it is are able to handle pretty much any reasonable cartridge. Many years ago, when I was young and naive, I bought a rolling block in 7mm Mauser. I went happily off to the range with a box of Norma cartridges. The very first one locked that rifle up something fierce and gave my gunsmith friend something serious to transcend. I have not had warm feelings toward rolling blocks since then.

Thanks for that post. You have already answered my next question. "Ok so they might be as strong, but can they handle modern cartridges?" Are the new reproductions any stonger because of better metals and technologies? I would like to get a single shot but the falling blocks seems to be a lot more expensive than their rolling counterparts.

Thanks
Bill

Are people that have taken the Sharps repros to high pressure and haven't reported any troubles. At one time, were versions of the Shilo offered in 30-30 and 30-40, but haven't noticed them mentioned in a few years...those would have run at 40K, but with a smaller head size and thicker barrel walls than the big BP rounds.

The higest pressure I've seen mentioned in print was 28K fro the .45-70 head size...if any one has a factory or relaoding manual recommendation for higher pressure, I'd apreciate the referenence.

Some of the early Sharps repros (and I'm not too sure about the current imported ones) used a large diameter fring pin like the originals. This big pin, and big pin opening in the block, isn't as good about high pressure as the smaller pin. Doesn't really change the strength of the action, just that the big pin tends to blow primers, jam the block, and sometimes lets gas escape towards the shooter.

Thanks for that post. You have already answered my next question. "Ok so they might be as strong, but can they handle modern cartridges?" Are the new reproductions any stonger because of better metals and technologies? I would like to get a single shot but the falling blocks seems to be a lot more expensive than their rolling counterparts.

Thanks
Bill

I have an original #1 Military Rolling Block in 7X57 in as issue condition that has had about a box of factory ammunition fired in it since I got it several years ago. the 7X57 developes around 43000 PSI and shoots quite well. I would not chamber any of the black powder #1's for a modern cartridge, and if mine were not in mint condition I would re barrel it for only those cartridges that develop less than that. Probably either a 38-55 or a 32-40 Winchester. Both are accurate cartridges and fun to shoot. As for the modern Rolling Blocks I would stay with the factory chamberings that they come with, or barrel and chamber them in the low pressure range. They also make nice 30-30's. The 32-40's and the 38-55's were developed as target cartridges, and are extreemly accurate cartridges. The old Creedmore Rolling Blocks were chambered for the 45-70 and 45-90 cartridges and did well out to 1000 yards, so as far as accuracy goes they were and still are quite good actions when kept within their limitations.

Lee L

Lee L:

Do like the Rollers. Of the originals, good shooting examples in good mechanical shape don't cost an arm and a leg. The action pins do take all the load, but they are big pins and if still fitted well, it's solid enough for the rounds in which it was produced.

Don't think the new ones are a great deal stronger than the originals...better steel in the action in most cases, so are somewaht stronger than the old ones (steel in the 1860's and 1870's just isn't all that great...hit or miss). Don't think the repros are any stronger than the later Smokeless #1's.

There use tobe (may still be made) one Repro. chambered in 30-30 (shot a 'Star' that was in 30-30, but a carbine), and some of the original sporting version were also chambered in 30-30 and 30-40. Some of the very first RB repro. imports were also in .444marlin.

Gone over by a good 'smith and perhaps with new pins if needed and a good hard look at the firing pin, the smokelss action would be safe for rounds of that head size and pressure.

The old ones, a bit loose from wear, will lock up solid with warm pressure loads. Have been some pictures published of gross overloads blowing the action....I certainly wouldn't put a BP rated action together in any high pressure caliber.

Do find the mailiatry type hammer with it's giant spur to be a lot of swinging weight...having it remodeld to the civilian size is worth the $ spent if rebuilding a "junker" with little collectors value.

Doesn't handle primer leaks very well...neither does the Sharps.

If you really just have to hot-rod the round in a single shot, then perhaps a modern desgin would be better.

Sounds like the rolling block may not be a viable option then. What about the Pedersoli rifles? Any one know the track record with these rifles?

Ribbonstone:
Just checked up on the SAAMI pressure on the 444, and it turned out to be 43500 PSI, so the Military Smokeless #1's would do good with the 444. I've never cared for Magnum rounds, or hot rodding a good cartridge, I'll just stay with what works in the older guns. If I wanted a good action for a high pressure cartridge, I would use the Martini or the Ruger single shots. I have a large action Martini that I am trying to figure out what to barrel it as, Been thinking of the 444 case necked to .416, should be a good brush gun.

Lee L

broncobill86:
Guess a lot depends on what caliber you had in mind. If intending to put a modern +50K round in the action, would do well to look at the Ruger action. IF looking to run 40K .45/70 loads, that still may be a better bet.

I don't much care for the "English" type lever used on the #1...do like the more "American" lever used on the #3.

M1894:

The big Martini can usually take cases of up to the .444's length...real long OAL's and straight cases have a little trouble making the bend to the chamber...the .416/444 shouldn't be a problem..

I really like the original American look. Long octagon (or half octagon) barrel single shots. I would like the gun to be chambered in 45-70. The Ruger #1 is likely the most practical, but as you mentioned the "look" just isnt there. I have been looking at the Pedersoli rifles but a friend of mine said that they have a poor record for long-term reliability. I wouldn't be loading superhot loads. But I would like to atleast use loads equal to those in my Marlin 1895 Cowboy.

Bill

Problem solved!!!!
Went to Gander Mntn today and bought a customized Ruger #1 with a 26 inch ported heavy ocatgon barrel, Sharps style. The gun is awesome, everything custom. I'll pass along pics as soon as I clean the drool off. I figured you cant beat a Ruger action, and I was wanting a ocatgon barrel. So viola. Im in love

Thanks guys

Bill

Wow!!! Please do post some pictures.

We are waiting, so hurry it up! :D

How do I attach the pic? the file is too large.

Bill

Heres the barrel.

Ok heres the specifics:
1.5 inch diameter octagon barrel on Ruger #1 action
lots of porting, as seen in picture
Sims recoil pad
peep sight
externally adjustable trigger
low gloss blueing

Posted the pics on Hunt 101

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=132129

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=132133

Hope you like.

Let's see if this works.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/132129.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/img/132133.JPG

How long is that barrel? Looks pretty short, maybe 24"?

You're good! I think its 25 depends on if you count the muzzle brake.

Bill