Since I did not get any responses to my post about the RCBS Pro 2000, I would like to know about the Dillon XL 650.

Convince me that this is the press to buy.
I know I want a progressive with 5 stations for either a powder check die or a lock out die. I will also seat and crimp in seperate stations.

Help me decide. I have heard that it is a real monster to change caliber shell plates on this press, so is it or is it not?

You may want to look at Hornady Lock N Load, which was discussed in the thread below:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=7127

I don't want to dissuade you from the Dillon, but offer up the Hornady as an alternative to consider.

Bill

After loading thousands of rounds on a Lee progressive press, anything started looking good. Lee has to have the worst priming system I've ever seen. In their defense, for about $200 including one set of dies, it was a cheap way to get started reloading. 'nuf said there.
For the money, I think the Dillon 650 is the way to go. They have a lifetime unconditional warranty, even on stuff you break, although you have to really work at tearing something up. It takes about 2 minutes to change calibers. Allow a little more if you're changing primer size. The dies stay mounted in the tool head, and the only thing that gets changed over is the powder measure. The key is to purchase a separate powder die(it also bells the case, and it's cheap) for each caliber so you don't have to readjust the flaring everytime you change. It takes a couple minutes to adjust the powder measure and you're off and running at 800-1000 rounds per hour. (I've only made it to 700 RPH, but that's being careful) If you load a lot of a couple of different calibers, you would do well to get another powder measure and leave it installed. With the case feeder and powder sensor that checks for no/double charges, you're looking at around $750 total. it seems like a lot, but after you use this press, you'll wonder why you ever put up with the aggrevation of some of the other stuff. Remember, you'll never have to pay for a repair part again.
For a little less $$$, the 550 is a great press. The Dillon quality is there, but you have to manually rotate the shell plate. Not a big deal, and gazillions of rounds have been loaded on a 550..

After loading thousands of rounds on a Lee progressive press, anything started looking good. Lee has to have the worst priming system I've ever seen. In their defense, for about $200 including one set of dies, it was a cheap way to get started reloading. 'nuf said there.
For the money, I think the Dillon 650 is the way to go. They have a lifetime unconditional warranty, even on stuff you break, although you have to really work at tearing something up. It takes about 2 minutes to change calibers. Allow a little more if you're changing primer size. The dies stay mounted in the tool head, and the only thing that gets changed over is the powder measure. The key is to purchase a separate powder die(it also bells the case, and it's cheap) for each caliber so you don't have to readjust the flaring everytime you change. It takes a couple minutes to adjust the powder measure and you're off and running at 800-1000 rounds per hour. (I've only made it to 700 RPH, but that's being careful) If you load a lot of a couple of different calibers, you would do well to get another powder measure and leave it installed. With the case feeder and powder sensor that checks for no/double charges, you're looking at around $750 total. it seems like a lot, but after you use this press, you'll wonder why you ever put up with the aggrevation of some of the other stuff. Remember, you'll never have to pay for a repair part again.
For a little less $$$, the 550 is a great press. The Dillon quality is there, but you have to manually rotate the shell plate. Not a big deal, and gazillions of rounds have been loaded on a 550..


I have a Dillion 550B
The priming design on this as well as with the quare deal is some thing that needs some rethinking . It can not tolerate dirt. It will not alway pick up primers.
I have tried depriming and cleaning before and still it will miss afew primers out of fifty.
I have written Dillion over this a few times and they have sent me replacement parts. But the problem continues.
Who wants to sort through loaded rounds such as 38 Spl pick out unprimed cases , then clean the press of powder , pull case's etc.

What I am doing now as my friend that has the quare deal with the same issue, is to unprime clean , then hand prime , then load.
You might better look at the RCBS as it has primers in a stip there for I would think , it would clear any dirt as it goes along.

As for the Lee Load all , the priming sytem is worse than the Dillion. Lee needs to make the parts out of metal to solve the issue's I returned the press after a few weeks and was refunded in full. Can not say anything bad about the people in the company.
I could not get any fee back about Hornady from any one that use's the product .
I have heard that the RCBS takes some time to get onto the calipier change over
If this was the only issue then I would be willing to trade the blue for the green.

I FINALLY got my bench built, and bolted up my new
650 yesterday. I'm completely new to reloading, and since
I've never used a reloader everything is a learning experience.

I've got to say, I LOVE Dillon's attitude.
But I hate their owner's manual. Granted, once a person
gets their press up and running, there is little need to ever
look at the manual again. But, there was more than
one time I was on the verge of shipping everything back
out of frustration. 100% of it was because I simply didn't
know what I was doing. They need more (and better)
photos, with arrows pointing to what they are referring to.

I was looking all over for the "little white cube" they
keep referring to as part of the powder metering system.
BULL, there is no cube. A cube is a geometric shape....
that is a cube. Errrrrr. What they meant was a square
piece of plastic. Stupid little things like that.

Which reminds me, I have to call them today because
the case-feed tube is too small for my S&W 500 shells.

Anyway, I spent the extra $$$ and bought the caliber
conversion kit, along with the shell holder, AND powder
measure so I can load 44 magnums as well as the 50.
And I don't have to mess with the powder measures.

So far, I really like the 650. I've yet to load a live round,
as I went to bed as soon as I got the profile crimp thing
figured out.

Dave

You'll LOVE the 650. it's hands down over a Lee. it's relatively easy to set up, but if you havn't done it, it can be a little intimidating. I'll be glad to help you if you need it. if you want to do it on your nickle(free cell phone minutes?), I'll be glad to help.. I just like to see another Dillon fan, they're such nice presses..

Hey Frosty,
I have a RCBS pro 2000. I have used it for 5 years now and I have not complaints. Its very sturdy and has a lot of features that i think would be flexible if you want progressive or single stage. The case retention system is really effective, it holds the brass directly inline with the dies above the shell plate. The APS primming system is really nice too, I just by CCI and when i load I just start that in. No hassles with the primers. The shell plate is also easy to change for any calliber that i have set up. There are no scattered primer on the floor becasue they have this tube that catches the used primer after decaping it. It has a self cleaning shell plate holder, prevents accumulation of crud and gun powder in the bottom of the shellplate. RCBS have very good personnel and i have had alot of good service from them. No questions asked. Just like Dillon people. Accurate meatering powder dispenser, case activated. I load from .45 cal, 9 mm, .40 and a 300 RUM and it works for me because i could use it as a single stage press if i want to load rifles like the 300 RUM. But its so easy too coz it drops the powder of Reloader 25 95 grains of them down to the casing. I just have one machine and its a PRO 2000. Parts are also cheaper.
Since I did not get any responses to my post about the RCBS Pro 2000, I would like to know about the Dillon XL 650.

Convince me that this is the press to buy.
I know I want a progressive with 5 stations for either a powder check die or a lock out die. I will also seat and crimp in seperate stations.

Help me decide. I have heard that it is a real monster to change caliber shell plates on this press, so is it or is it not?

I Have Had A Dillon 550 A Number Of Years Ago And I Sold It Because Of The Problems I Had With It. I Have Gone To Hornady Lock And Load Press And Would Never Consider Any Other Press After Using This One!

I Have Never Had To Adjust Anything On It. It Is Very Simple To Use And Once The Dies Are Set And Locked In They Never Have To Be Adjusted Again. Just Buy A Set Of Bushings For Each Die Set.

I Broke One Small Part On It And It Was My Fault So I Called Hornady And The Next Day The Part Showed Up No Charge.

Check Out The Prices For It At Lock,stock&barrel.com

Hey Frosty,
I have a RCBS pro 2000. I have used it for 5 years now and I have not complaints. Its very sturdy and has a lot of features that i think would be flexible if you want progressive or single stage. The case retention system is really effective, it holds the brass directly inline with the dies above the shell plate. The APS primming system is really nice too, I just by CCI and when i load I just start that in. No hassles with the primers. The shell plate is also easy to change for any calliber that i have set up. There are no scattered primer on the floor becasue they have this tube that catches the used primer after decaping it. It has a self cleaning shell plate holder, prevents accumulation of crud and gun powder in the bottom of the shellplate. RCBS have very good personnel and i have had alot of good service from them. No questions asked. Just like Dillon people. Accurate meatering powder dispenser, case activated. I load from .45 cal, 9 mm, .40 and a 300 RUM and it works for me because i could use it as a single stage press if i want to load rifles like the 300 RUM. But its so easy too coz it drops the powder of Reloader 25 95 grains of them down to the casing. I just have one machine and its a PRO 2000. Parts are also cheaper.

When I was looking for some info on a new press , it just wasn't there . A friend directed me towards Dillion.
After three attempts to get the priming "THING" straightened out with no avail I gave up . I hand prime every blank! blank! one. If your loading 400 hundred rounds at a sitting , you do not need to find out later what rounds were not primed since you see some powder flates on the turret and in the collection box.

The best I had is 70 rds loaded out of eighty.

The pro 2000 seems to make sense. the strip would carry away any dirt while reloading. On the negative , I suppose you would need to learn to keep the strips coming and then , also there is the operation of loading new stips , but I coud put up with that . What I can not deal with is quickly loading a pile of 38Spl. then finding that you got to pull some loads since they are not all primed.
As I go , I find I am not the only Dillion user that now hand primes every case.

And now what a geat tool this forum is . some onecan learn from all of our mistakes. I should have bought the green machine, since the single stage has been great and all of the other products " great"

As I said previously, I have the 650.
I too am hand priming the cases at this point.
I've had to clean a mess of powder twice now because
a primer somehow managed to get mangled in the works.

It was probably somehow my fault, but everything else is
pretty idiot proof. Guess my parents built the "bigger idiot".

Dave

Call Dillon. If the machine won't drop primers consistently, or leaves them sideways, the little plastic 'thingy' at the end of the primer tube is probably worn out or defective. I bought a used 450, had this problem, that was the fix and haven't had a problem since.

Certainly a progressive press (of any brand) ought to handle primers or it's not worth much!!!!

I've had to use my Dillon to primer some .338 cases when I found that one particular shellholder for my Lee Auto-Prime would not seat primers all the way, ironically....

Harry,
The thing with Pro 2000 that I noticed is that the shell plate holder has something they call a "self cleaning system". When the shell plate rotates and if some crud is on the shellplate base it would drop through a portion of the base. Thereby making the base clean from crud and powder. For the primers, I just buy CCI and they have them in all calibers for small , large and magnum, and i think federal has one too. I just keep a sufficient supply of that. I dont have problems with my primming, 25 primers at a time per APS strip and its color coded too.
I have a Dillon 550 and a 450 before, but after I saw what i was going to spend after it was set up I sold it to a friend and used that money to buy ammo and the PRO 2000. When i bought the press there was nothing more to add for extra stuff like dillon would have. Just for another die, the plate, the shell plate and thats it. No caliber conversion kit etc.....
[

Call Dillon. If the machine won't drop primers consistently, or leaves them sideways, the little plastic 'thingy' at the end of the primer tube is probably worn out or defective. I bought a used 450, had this problem, that was the fix and haven't had a problem since.

Certainly a progressive press (of any brand) ought to handle primers or it's not worth much!!!!

I've had to use my Dillon to primer some .338 cases when I found that one particular shellholder for my Lee Auto-Prime would not seat primers all the way, ironically....

Mike
Life is never that simple.
If your old machine works every time great . Never sell that machine as long as you reload.

Then I am willing to trade you a machine that is almost a year and a half old.

That little plactic thingy is the first thing to replace. You do that first if the primers tip of will not otherwise feed properly . Then once that has been changed ,you can leave a primer in that plactic part and it will take a better set. This all seems to help.
Then you can change the plunger and spring on the bar that at picks up the primer, should this part not be straight.

Then you could check all the adjustments and see if the plunger is traving far enough under the plastic primer holder to pick up a new primer.

Then if every thing seems to be in order you can try different primers .

Then you can try another plastic thingy, Change the tube that the plactic thingy sets on , change the bar and plunger as a assembly, working with Dillion tech all through this .

End result ???? The machine works great then all of a sudden when your eye is turned away from every case to see if it 's primed, suddenly you have a few unprimed case'sagain in that little blue box were all the loaded ammo is deposited. :mad: "RAT"S again -again" :(

The best theory, that I have is- though I have yet to catch the machine doing it, is that the bar sticks that travels to pick up the primer the odd time and does not make the pull distance travel every time.

You Can Not Watch the bar move full travel , see if a primer is being picked up, see if the primers are not destorted in anyway, watch that he new case is in the shell holder perfect , start a bullet and pull the handle and load ammo faster than a single stage press with out at least two other guys watching for the machine to screw up.

Calling the teck service guy over the phone and going over each operation and setting , you quickly get to know that part of the machine inside and out.

But when the priming stops you quickly check for dirt or maybe a non round primer ( which sometimes happens). you take the priming unit off , dump all the primers and reassemble not seeing what has gone amist. you blow the powder offf the shell plate , load your primers and evey thing works great . You just loaded another 30 to 200 rounds what ever, and we missed a few case's again as you look through your loaded rounds.

Frankly I do not need the frustration. I soak my cases in dish soap over night , rinse and dry. I deprime on my rock crusher
press, tubble the brass in a media , pick out the primer pockets as I reprime with my RCBS hand primer.
Then to the machine that has the deprimer stem lifted out , incert case resize pull the handle . Every case is loaded perfect . you can load as fast as you can install a case rotate the shell holder, and install a lead bullet all at the same time.

This is the out come over a bunch of E-mails , phone calls to dillion , phone calls and visits from people with Dillion machines, Waiting for replacement parts from dillion, ( takes 6-8 weeks delivery to Canada) and one large large can of patience, :D from a licence auto machanic who has spent years working on new cars with drivability problems no one was able to fix.
The dillion square deal, the 550B , does not always feed primers . Main cause is dirt getting in the workings. You need to start with cleaned cases , then watch carefully as the machine picks up a primer , then blow out dirt with a compressed air can, take the primer assemly off checking for dirt or maybe a new platic thingy over time.
Make the call to dillion tech , you already know the guy and the number , have a coffee before you load again .
Or hand primeand not worry. Very cartrige at the competion your at is going to go" bang!" :) LIFE IS GRAND :cool:

Harry,

I'll send you my mailing address!!! :)

I don't doubt you got a lemon. Having learned to reload shotshells on a Mec that had a tendency to sling shot, primers, and powder everywhere.... let's say I can sympathize!!!!!

Too bad, life's too short to be annoyed by mechanical objects. One thing about progressives of any brand.... I make sure I can watch each primer, every time. Slows down reloading but I like them to go 'bang.'

Mike it is not "me" that has the lemon .
I have talked this over with other dillion owners that have the 550 and the square deal, that have the same concerns . I was advised to contact the tech. support and try to deal with the problems .
But again they had gone through it themselves ,and ended up with-" the same solution" -Hand Prime.

I never intended to Bash any press , but after what I read on this forum about priming, I thought I would come forward and say Yeah!!! Some folks up here in Ontario are having some priming issues too.
I have every thing still mounted and maybe some day I will get some fine grit paper and sand . using a straight edge , I see that not all parts are square . that goes for the replacement parts I got.

And the little plastic "thingy" They sent me a few spares.
After all the stuff we tried I was not going to hound then ( Dillion) any more.The last E-mail I sent indicated it was better but still having some problems. I am sure they do not know what to do since they do not have a tech. running around Ontario Canada and it is not worth sending the Machine back and forth.
So let it be bad primers or user error.
I thought maybe -then I see this is the fourth time
I hear some one priming by hand .

AFTER READING ALL THE POSTS ON THE DILLON I WOULD HAVE TO SAY GET A L-N-L PROJECTOR. IT IS EASY TO ASSEMBLE AND I HAVE NOT EVER HAD TO ADJUST ANYTHING ON MINE SINCE I HAVE HAD IT AND THAT HAS BEEN OVER 10000 ROUNDS OF 10mm AMMO LOADED ON IT. IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH IT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CALL HORNADY AND IF BY SOME CHANCE YOU NEED A PART THEY WILL HAVE IT TO YOU WITHIN A WEEK.

Yes Dillion will send you a part as quick as they can too. They try the best.
Same thing with Lee. If your not happy with a Press and they can not correct with your satifaction they would refund.
I just wish John Lee would make his products out of metal instead of the plastic. to much of the plastic thingys going wrong on the Load -all I heard.
As far as the Turret Press had mine almost ten years.
When you invest in a unit , it is used as soon as you leave the door .In my situation trying to sort out all this stuff with Dillion , over the time period, I do not expect a return of my investment. I am still hoping for the cure .
If Hornday and RCBS stand up to the test of time, let us know.
Take care and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Happy