I just got back from the range. To get you up to speed on my situation here's the short and sweet.... Bought a BLR in .308 about a month ago. Also bought a new Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9x40 to go on top of it. Took it to the range, bolt wouldn't push the hammer all the way back. Sent gun back to browning. Got it back within 3 weeks, parts list said a "sear spring" was to blame. Now the bolt functions great. Clean gun and go to range with about 3 boxes of different premium ammo to see what it likes best. Here's where my problems start back up again. I could fire a three shot group and get about an inch group size. Fine by me, wasn't really expecting anything to much under an inch at 100yds out of this rifle. Fire another trhee shot group, same ammo, given time for the barrel to cool. The second group has increased in size a good bit. Wait for barrel to cool, fire another three shot group and this time the group has doubled the size of the original. By the third three shot group I had between a 3.5 and 4 inch group. I stopped and started to clean the rifle. Now remember the gun was clean before I started shooting. In less than 10 shots the barrel was filthy, I got patches covered in black, then blue and green. Took me a while to get it clean again. Then repeated whole cylce with different brands of ammo. All brands did the same thing. After nine shots this gun looked like it had seen about 100rds down the barrel without a cleaning, dirty dirty dirty and fouled. I called the store I bought the gun from, the actual guy that sold me the gun was off, but I was told he would be in in the morning and just my lucky day a Browing Rep is going to be there all day long. I plan on going in durring my lunch break to see what my options are. I am so frustrated! I really love the way this gun fits me, the way it looks and the caliber; I just can't get the blasted thing to shoot worth a flip. I tried 147gr FMJ surplus stuf, 150gr Rem Corelokts, Hornady Light Magnum shells, Federal Premium 165gr Seria GameKings, and 150gr Blasitic Tips. All with the same crappy results. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm pulling my hair out on this one. Oh I forgot to mention the crown isn't damaged at all. :confused:

You've got a fouler. You can lap it, live with it, or hope it smooths out with some shooting. Or trade it off.

If it puts the first three shots in an inch from a clean barrel, I'd keep it, myself.

Shoot it a lot and have fun. It is a keeper. It will smooth out after a case or two of surplus. My general rule is less than an inch from a fresh barrel is a keeper. As for practical accuracy, if you can hit an 8 inch circle at 200 yards you can kill anything you might wish to hunt.

This rifle might need a tune up but there is nothing "{wrong }" with it. Oh, you need about 200 rounds to break in a new barrel. It will smooth up noticably after that. If it were mine, I take 200 rounds of surplus out and and just play. No group shooting or worries, just shoot. Get a case of clay pigeons or something.

Shoot it a lot and have fun. It is a keeper. It will smooth out after a case or two of surplus. My general rule is less than an inch from a fresh barrel is a keeper. As for practical accuracy, if you can hit an 8 inch circle at 200 yards you can kill anything you might wish to hunt.

This rifle might need a tune up but there is nothing "{wrong }" with it. Oh, you need about 200 rounds to break in a new barrel. It will smooth up noticably after that. If it were mine, I take 200 rounds of surplus out and and just play. No group shooting or worries, just shoot. Get a case of clay pigeons or something.


Ok, lets say I go the route of just fireing a lot of surplus stuff through it, I've got a few questions on that. At my local range they have a lot of surplus .308 at a steal of a price 1.50 per 10rd pack. Problem is they don't know if it is corrosive or not. I would guess it probably is. Since I am just shooting to smoothing things out should it matter if the ammo is corrosive or non corrosive? I'm really tired of sinking money into this gun. Its had about 100rds total through it, and it just seems to be getting worse. Also if I go about shooting a lot of surplus through it at what interval should I clean the barrel? every 25, 50, 75rds? The barrel was nasty after less than 10 rds of good factory stuff, I can only imagine how dirty it could get with cheap surplus stuff.

I havent run up on any corrosive 308 so far. I would just shoot 100 at a time. Your barrel will need cleaning. I know people who clean every three or 4 shots. I think this is foolish, except for competion. Yhis is not a competion rifle.Shooting it will not hurt it. Expect to spend time cleaning after a 100 round string. It wont be any dirtier than otherwise. Part of smoothing a barrel is the cleaning process.

I would remind you that cleaning a gun is a lengthy process. A barrel needs to sit between solvent soaked patches and brushes to allow the solvent to work. I generally clean till the patches come out clean, coat with solvent, come back the next day and clean again, then again on a third day. Sitting longer wont hurt it. You will still see green copper fouling coming out the third day.

You have a really good rifle. Its just new.

Ok, lets say I go the route of just fireing a lot of surplus stuff through it, I've got a few questions on that. At my local range they have a lot of surplus .308 at a steal of a price 1.50 per 10rd pack. Problem is they don't know if it is corrosive or not. I would guess it probably is. Since I am just shooting to smoothing things out should it matter if the ammo is corrosive or non corrosive? I'm really tired of sinking money into this gun. Its had about 100rds total through it, and it just seems to be getting worse. Also if I go about shooting a lot of surplus through it at what interval should I clean the barrel? every 25, 50, 75rds? The barrel was nasty after less than 10 rds of good factory stuff, I can only imagine how dirty it could get with cheap surplus stuff.

If there is *any* chance whatsoever that this stuff is corrosive, then you need to clean the barrel by pouring hot water down it as soon as you get home. Patch that out then clean as normal. If that sounds like a pain, then don't risk it. If you think it fouls bad now, then wait till you see what it will look like if you shoot corrosive ammo and don't clean it :eek:

Have a friend who has sent his BLR .358 back to the factory, as it was a terrible shooter out of the box and was not fit and finished to the standards expected from such a gun.

If there is *any* chance whatsoever that this stuff is corrosive, then you need to clean the barrel by pouring hot water down it as soon as you get home. Patch that out then clean as normal. If that sounds like a pain, then don't risk it. If you think it fouls bad now, then wait till you see what it will look like if you shoot corrosive ammo and don't clean it :eek:


That doesn't sound too bad, is pouring hot water down it and then cleaning as normal all that would be required if I shot corrosive stuff down it? Also how hot are we talking, faucet hot, boiling water hot?

The water dissolves salt from the primer that rusts the gun. Boiling really is not needed. Ideally its hot enough to evaporate. Follow with normal cleaning.

Mattpair.
I would not worry about the fouling too much.
You could use a foam cleaner like "wipe out" or a bore snake . A bore snake could quickly clean fouling out at the range.
I had a winchester that fouled and I polished the bore with lead bullets. Once seasoned and a summer of plinking with lead the bore became mirror smooth.
If you can approach a Browning rep and ask advice - great. Itwould be a way to note with browning that you have this problem and later down the road you could say that you came forward with it .
I would shoot the rifle , snake it between clips of ammo.
Once home I would use a good copper solvent like "Copper Melt" , "Wipe Out" etc. I like the Wipe out product since it does a excellent job with out needing to use a rod. A few patched strokes does it all, instead of needing to brush with solvent and getting tennis elbow at the same time.

Let us know what the browning rep says.
Harry

Mattpair.
I would not worry about the fouling too much.
You could use a foam cleaner like "wipe out" or a bore snake . A bore snake could quickly clean fouling out at the range.
I had a winchester that fouled and I polished the bore with lead bullets. Once seasoned and a summer of plinking with lead the bore became mirror smooth.
If you can approach a Browning rep and ask advice - great. Itwould be a way to note with browning that you have this problem and later down the road you could say that you came forward with it .
I would shoot the rifle , snake it between clips of ammo.
Once home I would use a good copper solvent like "Copper Melt" , "Wipe Out" etc. I like the Wipe out product since it does a excellent job with out needing to use a rod. A few patched strokes does it all, instead of needing to brush with solvent and getting tennis elbow at the same time.

Let us know what the browning rep says.
Harry

Well, its not the cleaning that bothers me the most. Its the fact that I paid $600 for a rifle and for that price I expect it to hold a group for more than just three shots. After the first 3 shots the groups just keep opening up and becoming irregular. I expect better than that out of a Browning product. I'm not a brand snob, just realize that you pay a little more for a Browning product and so far I've never had a problem out of a Browning anything until this rifle.

Well, Let me start of by saying I wish I got this kind of customer service everywhere. I went into the gun store I got the BLR from this afternoon. Talked to the Browning rep explaining the problems I have had. Well the rep gave me a name and number to call to get the problem worked out, he said more than likely I would end up sending the gun back to Browning and they would do what they could to get it shooting right. This somewhat satisfied me, but then the owner of the store walked up to me and asked what kind of problems I have been having. I went through the whole spill again and he told me if I brought the gun and box back in tommorow he would swap my gun out for a brand new one.! I can't say how pleased I am, this store has earned 100% of my firearm business from now on. And now with a new BLR if I get the same type of fouling and loss of accuracy problems I will just firelap it. Also for the first 100rds this gun will see a dedicated break in procedure. Thanks for the replies this place is always a great place for me to learn.

Well
Mattpair
Sounds to me that the store is indeed intersted in pleasing the customer , and I would print where this store is because ,they deserve a kind word and busines we might be bringing if we lived close enough .
As for the price of fire arms , we your friends to the north would pay about $920 .then 15% tax and then 25.00 to register it. for that gun ,then would probably never be able to see a Browning dealer ever,Be with out the fire arm , as with my case, for at least two or three months, and may or may not get the problem resolved.

I hear from our dealer that Browning needs to have a lot of the product returned, and you brobably never have a rifle exchanged even if your W Bush, as in your case.
Unless the dealer is willing to take a bite we the Canadain get the threaded Nail that starts with a "S"
From what I read from you , the service is excellent,and again I would print the store were you got "the old world stye service". He had to take a bite on your return and deserves a few sales to make up for the loss.

:D With regards to your new Browning I hope ya got "a shooter"
Stay in touch and tell us how the new one shoots. :cool:
Harry

Well
Mattpair
Sounds to me that the store is indeed intersted in pleasing the customer , and I would print where this store is because ,they deserve a kind word and busines we might be bringing if we lived close enough .
As for the price of fire arms , we your friends to the north would pay about $920 .then 15% tax and then 25.00 to register it. for that gun ,then would probably never be able to see a Browning dealer ever,Be with out the fire arm , as with my case, for at least two or three months, and may or may not get the problem resolved.

I hear from our dealer that Browning needs to have a lot of the product returned, and you brobably never have a rifle exchanged even if your W Bush, as in your case.
Unless the dealer is willing to take a bite we the Canadain get the threaded Nail that starts with a "S"
From what I read from you , the service is excellent,and again I would print the store were you got "the old world stye service". He had to take a bite on your return and deserves a few sales to make up for the loss.

:D With regards to your new Browning I hope ya got "a shooter"
Stay in touch and tell us how the new one shoots. :cool:
Harry


Thanks for your post, reminds me how lucky I am to live in the USA. The dealership is Simmons Sporting Goods in Birmingham Alabama. They always have the best selection, generally the lowest prices, and their customer service has be proven first hand to me. This store will get 100% of my firearms money from now on. Not to pour salt on the wounds, but I checked my reciept and I paid $569 before taxes for the gun.

Glad that all worked out!!! Just a note on corrosive ammo clean up/ I took to using the gel that they sell for black powder gun cleaning. So far it has worked perfectly cleaning up after corrosive surplus ammo. I clean with the black powder gel and then do my normal cleaning routine. No rust no problems less hassle.

Well boys I am happy to report that I have the browning BLR back.
It is as smooth as a Babys Bum. We had to put the scope back on since it was removed for shipping, so we need to go back to the range and sight back in.
The Dealer I use ( Ellwood Epps)was great to ship the rifle off to Browning for me and asked no money to box it and ship , then on return reinstall the scope and rings, and bore sight the rifle for me.
Charge? All part of the service as always.
I am pleased.
Harry

Good news Harry! So sorry you'll have to spend more time shooting it to get the scope dialed in, but that's life!

No Problem with dailing in the scope again. Just takes awayaday Icould other wise be in the bush.Having one day a week to hunt , the browning is going to have to wait a bit.
I am happy to get the rifle back and am thankful Browning made the repairs that quick. I was thinking I would probly not have the rifle for another month at least , and wanted it for the bear hunt.
Now where did that bear go?

No Problem with dailing in the scope again. Just takes awayaday Icould other wise be in the bush.Having one day a week to hunt , the browning is going to have to wait a bit.
I am happy to get the rifle back and am thankful Browning made the repairs that quick. I was thinking I would probly not have the rifle for another month at least , and wanted it for the bear hunt.
Now where did that bear go?


Glad you got your BLR back. I've had a time with mine doing a barrel break in procedure. I got called up to do serve a few weeks at my reserve center so i haven't been to the range in a while, but look forward to posting my results. I've yet to find a rifle that fits me as well, or handles so easily as my BLR. Can't wait to get it dialed in and shooting good.

No Problem with dailing in the scope again. Just takes awayaday Icould other wise be in the bush.Having one day a week to hunt , the browning is going to have to wait a bit.
I am happy to get the rifle back and am thankful Browning made the repairs that quick. I was thinking I would probly not have the rifle for another month at least , and wanted it for the bear hunt.
Now where did that bear go?
Harry
Did they say what was wrong with the rifle or give any explanation of the repairs? Just curious as I have this same firearm and havn't fired it yet. (It seems to function correctly) I just sent a Blr 81 7-08 to browning to be repaired that I bought used. It seems to have a timing problem as the bolt does not open far enough to let the round from the magazine to come up behind the bolt and be chambered. I bought this rifle used and will be curious to see how they handle it. Good luck with your rifle and hope you find your bear!

Harry
Did they say what was wrong with the rifle or give any explanation of the repairs? Just curious as I have this same firearm and havn't fired it yet. (It seems to function correctly) I just sent a Blr 81 7-08 to browning to be repaired that I bought used. It seems to have a timing problem as the bolt does not open far enough to let the round from the magazine to come up behind the bolt and be chambered. I bought this rifle used and will be curious to see how they handle it. Good luck with your rifle and hope you find your bear!

The problem with the new Browning light weight , that will not bring the hammer all the way back and has the bolt rubbing on the hammer is the sear. This had to be replaced on my rifle, as well as other units that had the same problem. In short the hammer was not coming all the way back and you needed to manually bring it back the last click.
They also tightened up the bolt clearance in the reciever .
I have not had the chance to load up some shells and sight it back in as yet , but workingthe action empty, everything appears to be fine now.
I have heard that Browning hasa bit of a problem with quality Control, but there has been no problems getting the repairs done as ar as I have heard from other owners.

If you bought your rifle used , I would expect a bill for repair unlessit is a current unit. Let us know how you made out.
Happy

I know this is an ancient thread but I am having similar problems with my BLR and I'm wondering how Mattpair or Browning solved the problem. If you see this Matt I'd be interested to know what the solution was.

I have a BLR Lightning (pistol grip) in 30-06. I have had it for a couple of years and love it. It fouls awfully though.

Even after three shots I can see streaks of copper. If I take 10 shots it takes me two days to get it clean! I have to spray it with a copper fouling remover and let it soak for a few hours then scrub it with a brush and a few patches and repeat....for a couple of !*##@! days!!

I called browning recently and talked to an unsympathetic rep who told me that was normal! I have a safe full of other guns that don't do this.

Has anyone else had problems like this with their BLR? I'm thinking of buying another one in 7mm Mag. This fouling problem is making me hesitate though . I want to get a "reach out and touch me" rifle and it has to be lever action. As far as I know the BLR is the only option.

Thanks,
Dean

Why don't you just ask him yourself?

http://shootersforum.com/member.htm?u=2803

If memory serves, I think he may have sold that rifle, could be totally wrong

I know this is an ancient thread but I am having similar problems with my BLR and I'm wondering how Mattpair or Browning solved the problem. If you see this Matt I'd be interested to know what the solution was.

I have a BLR Lightning (pistol grip) in 30-06. I have had it for a couple of years and love it. It fouls awfully though.

Even after three shots I can see streaks of copper. If I take 10 shots it takes me two days to get it clean! I have to spray it with a copper fouling remover and let it soak for a few hours then scrub it with a brush and a few patches and repeat....for a couple of !*##@! days!!

I called browning recently and talked to an unsympathetic rep who told me that was normal! I have a safe full of other guns that don't do this.

Has anyone else had problems like this with their BLR? I'm thinking of buying another one in 7mm Mag. This fouling problem is making me hesitate though . I want to get a "reach out and touch me" rifle and it has to be lever action. As far as I know the BLR is the only option.

Thanks,
Dean

You might get in touch with Marshall Stanton and talk about firelapping your bore. It might be the answer to your problem.

Hey guys, its been a while since i've been online. As to the BLRs and some of the stated problems. The hammer rubbing the bolt and the bolt getting stuck was solved by sending it back to browning. In a short time i had my rifle back and the problem was solved. I have owned three BLRs and that one was the only one with that problem. The fouling of the barrel is an issue that was present will all three. I don't know what it is that causes it. I don't have this problem with other rifles, but its not a really big deal to me. I think as suggested before firelapping would probably do it some good. I love these rifles, they fit me really well, shoot better than most and are a joy to carry in the field.

Did you sell one of you BLR's to Chris from Jersey or am I thinking of someone else? I can't remember his username but he signs his posts that way

I bought a 358 from Matt. This is one he didn't shoot. It has a similar problem. I thought I was losing my mind the first time I took it to the range. But when I got it home and ran about 100 patches down the bore with Hoppes, Sweets and others, and it still wasn't clean it all started to make sense. I think I'll spend the time to get it good and clean, then do the firelapping routine. Had good luck with a Marlin 375 using Marshall's techniques. Just bought another one of these from a fellow member. Hope it doesn't act the same way, but if it does no big deal. I think firelapping will straighten it out.

I bought a 358 from Matt. This is one he didn't shoot. It has a similar problem. I thought I was losing my mind the first time I took it to the range. But when I got it home and ran about 100 patches down the bore with Hoppes, Sweets and others, and it still wasn't clean it all started to make sense. I think I'll spend the time to get it good and clean, then do the firelapping routine. Had good luck with a Marlin 375 using Marshall's techniques. Just bought another one of these from a fellow member. Hope it doesn't act the same way, but if it does no big deal. I think firelapping will straighten it out.

So Bart...did you firelap the .358 then? Did that cure the fouling problem?

Has anyone out there had a BLR that didn't foul real bad?
Matt's experience of 3 for 3 seems like more than bad luck.

Dean

Hey
I thought I had the pick of the lot with the hammer rubbing and cartridge sticking in the chamber after being fired.
Browning made the repairs and it seems like the trigger had improved at the same time.

I never had any fouling issues in my 358, and never heard of any one with the concern.
I would suspect then that the bores must be a bit rough.

It seems with all mass produced items if it's not one thing , it's another.
I can tell you many stories about Marlin rifles too. :rolleyes:
Happy

I've never had any fouling issues with my 358 either, cleaned it before I shot it and routinely after firing. Been a great gun.

So Bart...did you firelap the .358 then? Did that cure the fouling problem?

Has anyone out there had a BLR that didn't foul real bad?
Matt's experience of 3 for 3 seems like more than bad luck.

Dean

Not yet. Just posted that last night. When I can get away from work long enough I'll get started. Still got a couple more rounds of heavy cleaning ahead of me too it appears. I even ran some of that Kleen Bore lead removal cloth down the bore and it's still not completely clean. Was left with the impression, based on past experience, that this barrel had several layers of copper and lead fouling built up. Could be if I get it clean I won't need to do more. Group size sure did change as more rounds went down the barrel though. The last few rounds were completely off paper at 100 yd. To make matters worse I was trying to zero the scope while this was going on. Pretty frustrating.

I can't say enough about about Wipe-Out as to getting a rifle bore really clean when other products fail. An overnight soaking may be needed, but I have let friends use some on their rifles they thought were clean and probably "shot out", most notably on a 22-250 that had seen 20+ years of hard use. After a shot of Wipe-out and a few hours of soaking it was back to shooting 1/4" groups. I may have mentioned this product before, so if I'm being repetative I apologize, but it's good stuff.
I bought a 358 from Matt. This is one he didn't shoot. It has a similar problem. I thought I was losing my mind the first time I took it to the range. But when I got it home and ran about 100 patches down the bore with Hoppes, Sweets and others, and it still wasn't clean it all started to make sense. I think I'll spend the time to get it good and clean, then do the firelapping routine. Had good luck with a Marlin 375 using Marshall's techniques. Just bought another one of these from a fellow member. Hope it doesn't act the same way, but if it does no big deal. I think firelapping will straighten it out.

I've been meaning to give this stuff a try for quite a while now. So I just got done ordering a can. If it works better than Sweets I'll be happy. Running 100 patches down a bore in one afternoon can sure wear on you. Even Sweets wasn't making much headway.

I've been meaning to give this stuff a try for quite a while now. So I just got done ordering a can. If it works better than Sweets I'll be happy. Running 100 patches down a bore in one afternoon can sure wear on you. Even Sweets wasn't making much headway.

Bart, Unfortunately I've become an expert on removing copper from the barrel;> I found the best way is to spray it with a copper removing foaming cleaner and let it soak for several hours...or over night. Come back and hit it with the brush then wait some more...then run two or three patches through it and repeat. Soaking time seems to be the only thing that works on the copper fouling.

I have also rotated the gun around and let it soak for a time on top, bottom and both sides because even with the foam, gravity gets the better of it.

Fortunately my BLR seems to shook well even though it fouls real bad. It will still shoot a 1" group at a 100 with the barrel all streaked up with copper. I guess I'm gonna try the firelapping thing though.

BTW I just bought another BLR...a 1994 model 81 in 7mm Mag. Should have it in a few days, can't wait. hopefully this one won't foul;>

This one has the steel receiver I think. I think 1994 was the last year for the steel before they went to the alloy. Can anyone confirm this?

Dean

BTW I just bought another BLR...a 1994 model 81 in 7mm Mag. Should have it in a few days, can't wait. hopefully this one won't foul;>
Dean

FWIW, my 7Mag in Rem 700 BDL was the worst copper fouling rifle I had ever owned until this first BLR. It needed cleaned real bad by the 20th round. But it also seems to clean up real good without too much elbow grease.

The 2nd BLR showed up yesterday and I'm pleased with it. Hope to get it out and see how it shoots soon. Might wait until the WipeOut gets here so I can compare them side by side with clean barrels.

I'm not sure when they went to the alloy receiver but it was sometime in the mid-90's I think...whenever they went to the lightweight model.

A couple of weekends later and time to try the WipeOut cleaner...the stuff works. The tradeoff is time vs elbow grease though. If you're patient and let it soak overnight it seems to get the "blue" out all right. If you want quick results I think some of the other cleaners are a better choice...realizing that you're going to work harder. It sure lasts a long time as I've worked over 6 rifles in the last 2 weekends and can hardly tell that any has been used. Might as well do the whole safe while this COLD weather hangs around.

The second BLR turned out to be copper fouled to a large degree but cleaned up a lot quicker than the '87 model. Not sure which one I like best yet. The newer one sounds "cheaper" but am sure it's just as strong. Something about a rifle made of steel that appeals to the senses ...