Many folks would say that the .44mag is too powerful from a rifle for close range personal defense, due to overpenetration issues. Aside from "collateral damage" concerns, if you had to select a factory .44mag JHP load for close range personal defense with a lever rifle (against 2-legged adversaries) what would you choose and why?

Some options are:

.44 Magnum
(except where noted, all rounds were chronographed from a Marlin 1894SS .44mag at 9' from muzzle)
Hornady 240 gr. JHP/XTP 1897 fps/1918 fpe
Fiocchi 240 gr. JSP 1838 fps/1800 fpe
Speer Gold Dot 210 gr. JHP 1913 fps/1706 fpe
Win. Hollow SP 240 gr. HSP 1744 fps/1621 fpe
Win. Silvertip HP 210 gr. HSP 1250 fps/729 fpe (factory data from pistol)
American Eagle 240 gr. JHP 1686 fps/ 1514 fpe

A. Whatever fed the most reliably.
B. One of the 210 gr. slugs, or even lighter, for reduced recoil.
C. From your list, the Silvertip 210 gr. The Silvertips are notoriously 'soft', IE: expand FAST, so, especially out of a rifle, the expansion would literally be explosive. This would help on the overpenetration issue, and lessen the chance of having a survivor to sue you. Not 'P.C.', but sorry, just the facts about a very serious issue. For 2-legged self defense, I stoke my Super Redhawk with Mag-Safe rounds. Lee.

I don't have a 44 Magnum rifle, (yet), but my M29 stays loaded with Remington 180 grain JHPs on my nightstand.

I don't care about "collateral damage". We live way out in the country and it's just she & I.

I would pick CorBon. 165 Gr JHP 44 Mag @ 1300 FPS from a handgun or 44 SPL @ 1150FPS from a handgun.
Andy

Were it me, I would (and have) loaded 44 Specials in my 1894, I can see no need for any magnum load in a defensive situation. The Cor-Bon and Silvertip loads expanded VERY well from the rifle barrel, and accuracy was excellent. I'd even use them for deer at close range, if I could, but I'm limited to shotgun or handgun for deer. But they are easy to shoot, not incredibly loud, and devastating on fleshy targets.
If there is a small-statured shooter who might also be involved, they're perfect.

PJ

Actually, Papajohn, that WOULD be the best way to go....I just based my response on his parameter of 'FACTORY .44 MAG. JHP' ammo. Given the choice, I would load my .44 rifle ( IF they fed totally reliably...) with the factory Win. .44 Special 200 gr. Silvertip round. They clock about 900 fps out of a handgun, so I would expect about 1100-1200 fps. out of a rifle-length barrel, with a lot less blast and recoil than a full-house .44 Mag. round. Very good point RE: a smaller-statured shooter, IE: wife or girlfriend being to shoot the weapon a lot easier, too. A specialty round like the Glaser Safety Slug, or Mag-Safe ammo that features a frangible bullet of very light weight at a very high velocity would further reduce recoil, and address the issue of overpenetration and miss/riccochet danger to others. Of course, in my opinion, ;) a good short-barreled 20 ga. pump shotgun loaded with a moderate-powered birdshot load is the ultimate long-arm for home defense. Lee.

If you live in the middle of nowhere and overpenetration isnt an issue, i would probably go with the GoldDots. They expand quite reliably, and are increadably devastating on anything they hit. Personally though, i would just buy a cheap shotgun if its going to be for home defence. Remington 870s can be had used for about 150-200 bucks.

Well... I have the Mossberg 500 12 ga. "Persuader" always at hand. Great shotty! But I also like to have a 16" Trapper length lever rifle loaded up and close at hand as well.

Now don't get me wrong... there's no way in **** I'd like to stand in front of a .44 Special anything, especially coming out of a 16" Trapper. But tonight I chronographed a variety of .44mag and a .44 Special loads from my Winchester 94 16" Trapper and the .44 Special load really wasn't much better than you would get from a pistol. Keep in mind that my choice to use a rifle is to gain some significant power over using a pistol, in addition to better accuracy. I've also got the pistols at hand, but when I grab the rifle I want to really up the ante in terms of penetration, expansion, and energy.

I feel a 16" Trapper is the perfect personal defense rifle because it's so short and easy to maneuver in close quarters like the home or RV. I live on acerage in the country, so my risk of collateral damage is much lower than an apartment dweller in the city would have.

Anyway, here's my chrony data using the Winchester 94 16" Trapper in .44 Magnum:

Winchester '94 16" Trapper - .44 Magnum
http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Win94Trapper.jpg

.44 Mag /Win 94 16"/Hornady 200 gr. JHP/XTP/1919fps/1635fpe
.44 Mag/Win 94 16"/Speer Gold Dot 210 gr. JHP/1919fps/1716fpe
.44 Mag/Win 94 16"/Hornady 240 gr. JHP/XTP/1781fps/1689fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Winchester 240 gr. Hollow SP/1749fps/1630fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Winchester Partition Gold JHP/1680fps/1567fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Amer Eagle 240 gr. JHP/1657fps/1463fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Win 210 gr. Silvertip HP/1578fps/1161fpe
.44 Spl Win 94 16"/Win 200gr. Silvertip HP/1000fps/444fpe

I view the .44 Special performance in a Trapper somewhat as I view most .45 Colt loads in a Trapper... not much better than shooting a pistol. There are one or two noteworty exceptions to this, however, Corbon being one of them. Typically, I find Corbon is loaded hot enough and with a slow enough powder to bea able to make good use of longer barrels in gaining velocity. The only downside is that the velocity might become so great that the bullet would over expand too early and not penetrate to the deep CNS. Winchester's Supreme Partition bullets will definitely expand, but the expansion is limited by the partition, thereby ensuring excellent penetration (and most likely an exit wound as well).

The 210 gr. .44mag Silvertip looks like a nice personal defense round, except that was the only round which displayed a considerable amount of muzzle flash in front of the 16" barrel! Dang! So while recoil may be much milder, the bright flash in a darkened scene could momentarily blind both shooter and perp. The power is really very moderate for a .44 mag (I find that quite desireable and unusual for a factory personal defense load in .44 mag), but why must it have all that muzzle flash? Too bad! In today's world it seems that everything is bigger, faster, more powerful. What I think we really need today is a few more factory .44mag personal defense rounds which are downloaded a little bit. All the .44mag and .454 Casull loads don't have to be close to the max, do they??? I wouldn't be uncomfortable with the Hornady 200 gr., Gold Dot 210 gr., or the Win Supreme Partition 250 gr. as defense loads, though they did recoil more than the 210 Silvertip round did.

While a couple of the .44 Special loads (especially the Corbon, which I haven't tested yet) look to be pretty good performers, I'm more comfortable in assuming that my potential two-legged adversary might possibly be a really big guy, hopped up on who knows what, and possibly wearing some heavy clothing or, slight possibility, a tactical vest!

With that assumption in mind, why would I want to load a .44 mag Trapper with mild .44 Special pistol ammo when I could use something like the 200 gr. Hornady XTP/JHP or Winchester Partition 250 gr. JHP? I presume most if not all rounds may very well exit the perp anyway, so why not use some fairly stout power to raise the ante significantly over just pistol power?

Assume, again, rural setting, and before shooting, considering the potential for possible collateral damage should rounds miss or exit. (I read somewhere that up to 90% of police rounds fired actually miss the target entirely!) With that possibility looming large, even if you water down your loads to mousephart Cowboy loads, there's a significant chance that one or more of your fired bullets are going to go downrange anyway without striking your primary target... so consideration of the downrange at the moment of shooting is critical no matter what the round or caliber.

Have you chronied Cor-Bon's 180-grain JHP .44 Magnum out of your .44 Trapper?

I don't have access to all this fancy-pants data, so I just have my Marlin 1894 Carbine .44 mag (non-safety square bolt 1975 mfr) with Federal Premium Hydra-shok 240 grain JHP.

I live in a small, older commercial building that has the upper floor converted to a 4-apartment complex. There's barely any crime around here at all, but if I did have a break in, everybody in the apts across from me would probably go down with the robber with my current loads.

Obviously, that's a bad thing. Leverguns, especially gravity-reliant ones that jam if you hold them wrong when cocking, do not strike me as a good close-range personal defense weapon in a dire situation.

The Yugo sks I have would also likely penetrate the thin walls.

I guess I should save up for a good Browning pump shotgun. What should I load it with, No. 4?

Give the construction of the last 50-60 years, there's is not much hope of not penetrating at least a couple of interior walls with a bulleted round. IF this is a concern, then there really isn't a good solution....if its a leathal load, it will get through at least one wall and damage anyone on the other side of it.

Busted sheet rock is usally found waiting to be garbage-picked up...scrounge a few 2X4's...build a wall or two and test. IF lucky enough to nail a 2X4, pipe, electrical wire, duct work, or some other obstruction, may stop a mild loading...but that's just blind luck (same as tagging the electric motor when testing modern car doors).

Even bird shot will get it's way though if the impact point is close eonough for them to strike in a mass....that's about the distance across the average room.

IF you live in an old house, with thick lathe and plaster walls, they are a lot better about sucking up stary rounds...but there arn't many of those houses in most areas.

Get low...shoot "up".

Get low...shoot "up".

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There's a clothing store beneath me, apts all around, and a gas station and tourist stores out the windows.

Shooting up, letting the round go through the assailant and through the roof, and hoping it arcs over into the woods is really my only option, and would do the least amount of damage. If it did bust into another apt, at least it would be up high enough to not hit anyone (hopefully).

A cop I used to work with kept a short-barrelled shotgun at home for his wife when he worked midnights. When I asked him what load he kept in it, I expected him to tell me he used the same 4 Buck load we carried on duty. But he grinned, and said he used a "Trailer Park load". Answering my puzzled look, he said it was #9 shot, guaranteed to kill at close range but not dangerous to the trailer next door. But it will certainly do some damage in the trailer it's fired in!

Papajohn

I chronographed Hornady 180 HP/XTP factory loads from my .44 trapper. If I remember correctly, they exceeded 2200 fps! I figure they should mushroom pretty well and would be absolutely devastating, while being somewhat less of an over penetration hazard as many heavier bullets.

The only drawbacks are that the muzzle flash and blast are horendous!

Close in I'd go with Magsafes. Further out a good 180 grain hp at full throttle.

Leverguns, especially gravity-reliant ones that jam if you hold them wrong when cocking

What do you mean Vorzer? The question isn't strictly on topic, sorry, I have a .357 not a .44, but I do sometimes get feeding jams when cocking which I put down to poor maintenance on my part, and which has made me wonder whether the rifle would be reliable enough for a sustained firefight (we don't have those in Queensland, so please don't cancel your vacation here). My new-ish Win 9410 has similar, occasional jams. Safety considerations permitting, I hold a lever-action at just slightly elevated from the shoulder when I cycle the lever - what holding positions contribute to jams?

Remington 180 gr. jacketed hollow points go a little over 2300 f.p.s. in my Marlin 1894. That's what I use for home defense in this particular rifle.

magsafe or glasser w the trapper.or get a mossberg 410 home securty pump shotgun. if u can find one.

Suggest Federal Vital-Shock Barnes Expander 225 gr or Horady 225 gr LEVERevolution. The Hornady is designed for you gun and will expand for sure and extend your range.

Suggest Federal Vital-Shock Barnes Expander 225 gr or Horady LEVERevolution 225 gr. The LEVERevolution will expand for sure even through thick clothes or barriers and will extend the range of you rifle.

I would load the Barnes XPB for the 44 spl in the 44mag. It will expand well at mag velocities and blow a big hole in a bad guy. The 44 mag bullet is more stout, made for 4 legged critters and would penetrate too well.

Speer has a new 44 mag load for short barrels. 200 gr Gold Dot 44 Special bullet at 1075 FPS. Probably go about 1400 or so from a rifle. Ive shot some in my Taurus Tracker but havent chronographed it yet. Nice light load. Thats what I would use in a rifle. Theres also a Speer 44 Special load that goes about 800 fps from a 3 inch barrel with that same bullet. From a rifle it probably wouldnt come out of a perp. BIG hollowpoint on it.

With a .44 magnum carbine, I don't think it will matter what you use on the bad guy. Results should be the same.

210 gr. Silvertips

Well here is the view from the shortgun side of the house:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=47617

Remington 240 JHP Fast and unexpectedly fast expander?

I have a 44 MAG rifle and pistol, but I think the best gun for home defense is a shotgun. I do keep 200 grain Gold Dot hollow points in my pistol under my pillow though.