What do you guys know about these?

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_10&products_id=252

160 gr. Truncated +P+ moving at 1400 fps in a pistol. Would these make a good Deer Hunting round in a 357 Lever Action Carbine. I think shooting them out of the carbine would increase the speed to around 1800 fps. The weight and the speed look ok. I just have questions about the bullet.

The price is also right.

Geoff

That looks like the Hornady Flat Point/XTP. It's a tough bullet for a revolver and better in a rifle. Hornady's Useful Velocity Range is 1175-1800 fps, compared to 700-1400 fps for the HP/XTP. Fact is, they didn't expand for me in water filled jugs at an estimated 1200 fps.

Bye
Jack

I hope you'll excuse the fact that I don't own a lever gun, but I do shoot .357's in a rifle.

I think 400 fps more out of a carbine isn't likely to happen.

A month ago I shot a 170 gr Keith type bullet loaded with 13.5 gr 2400 in .38 Special brass and CCI 500 primer. The average pistol velocity was 1353 fps at 15' from the muzzle. The true MV is 1397 fps. The same load in a 22" barrel Handi rifle gave an average of 1698 fps at 15'. The true MV is 1742 fps.

At the same session, I shot some 125 gr Golden Sabers with 10.0 gr SR 4756 in .38 Special brass and CCI 500 primer. The same Ruger Security Six 6" used above shot these at 1355 fps average at 15'. The true MV is 1394 fps. The Handi rifle averaged 1639 fps at 15'. The true muzzle velocity, according to Rem Shoot!, is 1678 fps.

These 1400 fps pistol loads don't produce 1800 fps in a 22" barrel, so they probably won't in a shorter barrel either.

180 grain lead TC, 14.9 grains of Lil' Gun:
4" 686 = 1,137 fps
18.5" 1894C = 1,703 fps

125 grain SJHP, 18.5 grains H110:
686 = 1,161 fps
1894C = 1,970 fps

158 grain FP/XTP, 18 grains Lil' Gun:
686 = 1,208 fps
1894C = 1,867 fps

158 grain lead RNFP, 10.5 grains Blue Dot:
686 = 1,063 fps
1894C = 1,489 fps

Every one of these loads gets a more than 400 fps boost in my carbine. Could be a 22 inch barrel is too long and the powder is consumed before the bullet exits.

It seems like the slow powders may give 400 fps more in a carbine.

I found this from 6/6/04 out of a 22" barrel
158 gr XTP/HP
18.0 gr Lil'Gun
CCI 400
.357 brass
1829 fps
1884 fps
1853 fps
1844 fps
1852 fps average

same load out of a 6" Security Six
1250 fps average

The accuracy was so bad, I didn't load any more!

Besides, I can get 1350 fps out of a .38 Special in the same 6" Security Six, so why would I even consider Lil'Gun in a .357?

-snip-
Besides, I can get 1350 fps out of a .38 Special in the same 6" Security Six, so why would I even consider Lil'Gun in a .357?

I guess for the extra 500 fps in a carbine.:confused:

That Lil'Gun and FP/XTP load makes 1.75 inch average 5 shot groups at 100 yards in my 1894C. Iron sights with an elbows rest on a bench. Too bad it didn't work for you.

My micro grooved barrel doesn't seem to like 158's for accuracy. It does fine with 180 XPT/HP's and 250 gr Beartooth's. :)

BTW, the only load I have found for Lil'Gun is in the ,22 Hornet. I tried lots of bullets from 125 gr, 158 gr, 170 gr, 180 gr, 200 gr, 220 gr to 250 gr using Lil'Gun and didn't find accuracy as good as several other powders, like 800X and H4227.