Hi,

Does any have one of the new PUMA .454 CASULL Lever Action rifles?

Anyone have information on these rifles?

Is this gun beefed up to handle the .454 CASULL?

Thanks Tim

Tim-

Check out Fireplug's post on the "Winchester '94 in .480 Ruger" thread.  He gives his opinion on the carbine after checking it out at the shot show.

Also, he said that the distributor planned to start shipping the Puma .454's in June.

Read somewhere the only Rossi made rifles sold now is through Navy Arms. Is this correct??

oldpete

http://www.legacysports.com/product/specs/puma.htm

PUMA M92 in 454 Casull distributed by Legacy Sports.
http://www.legacysports.com/images/puma_454.jpg

Anybody have the latest information as to when the new .454 Casull in the Puma 92 is going to be available?

Thanks,
Timberwolf

Call Charlie Lozito at (609) 296-5410.

Thanks Jackfish. I understand that orders to distributors are being processed now. The problem is , they will be sold according to which distributors got the orders in first and so on down the line. Wow...what a wait. Does anyone have a handle on what the "dealer" price to the consumer will be? What do you believe the suggested dealer price to the non-FFL holder will be?

Thanks,
Timberwolf

I saw somewhere that you should be able to get them for about $360-$375.

Can anyone venture a guess as to what the ballistics might be from a 454 Casull launched from a 20" tube?

I was told a bit earlier that the .454 Casull fired in the Puma 20 inch carbine will be more potent in "close end" hunting than the .45-70. Isn't this saying a bit much?

Regards,
Timberwolf

Another question...

What's the quality of the Puma like? Is this the old Rossi 92?

Seems that I read somewhere that the Puma 92 has been "beefed up" to handle the pressure of the .454 Casul. Actually, I was told a few years ago that the Rossi 92 is one of the VERY best lever action rifles made as far as accuracy is concerned. A close friend stated that the Rossi out shoots the Winchester . He said that the Rossi is sometimes a bit rough, but they are accurate for the money and a great buy. Any other opinions on thsi matter?

Thanks,
Timberwolf

How about a 300 grain bullet at 1900 fps?

It will be interesting to see the performance and reliability of the new .454 lever action. Over the last several years, I've seen any number of folks asking for a .454 lever action, and the answer was always the same....the lever action can't handle that level of pressure, it can't and wouldn't be done. Maybe that reference was only for the Marlin?

The only reference I've seen about the new rifle was a brief announcement of it's release. I would have thought the manufacturer would have given a few to the better known writers for their review?
Have I missed some review articles?

I suppose I'm just getting old, but for that cheap a price I'll think I'll wait and see what the results are for a couple months (or more).

Dan

Question:

Will Winchester or Marlin step and add the .454 to there lever actions lines?  Would Winchester or Marlin have to beef-up there rifles to handle  the .454?

I would think that a .454 from a 24" could go over 2000 fps with out any problem.

How much diference functionally would there be between a .454 or Marlin 444?

Tim

Winchester could do it with a reintroduction of the 92 action which is essentially a scaled down 1886.  The Marlin action will not handle 54,000 CUP and you will never see the 454 Casull in a Marlin.

I believe it is unlikely Winchester will do it as they abandoned the 480 Ruger in the 94.

Wow! That 480/94 didn't last long. Were sales that bad?

Apparently a USRAC polled gun dealers and they said there would be little market for it.  Why didn't they poll gun owners?  I don't know if they even made any 480 Ruger 94s.

Thinking about the reasons Winchester decided to drop the 480, seems like manufacturers would have a comment section on their website for customer's to put in a wish list. *Or say they are thinking about introducing some new variant and getting a public response that way. *Kind of like the polls here on the Beartooth. *Invite the shooting public to comment on new projects, seems like it would be an easier and more economical way to keep their pulse on shooting trends.

My plan is to pick one up. ;)

Rossi Puma importers so far.
http://www.legacysports.com/
http://www.navyarms.com/index.html
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/

I do not know what to think about our gun manufacturers. I wonder if the gun manufactures like the television networks have a Nielsen family? Stupid. ???

All,

It has been some time ago I ask for more info on the Puma .454 lever action. By now, I bet some one on list has one. Does anybody have one? What do you think about it?

I'm thinking about getting. The ability to shoot 454 and 45 lc is apealing.

Tim

If I were to get a 454casull in a m92 clone I don't feel it is prudent to be using 45Colt rounds thru it. It has to be cleane d from the muzzle end. This makes cleaning the chamber of lead and carbon build up difficult. As Freedom Arms says no 45Colt in their Casull SA's it goes without saying this should apply to the Puma as well. I don't even use 38Spl in my 357 for this very reason. Reduced loads in their proper cases perhaps, but the consequences aren't the same as 22rifle pressures. Think about it.

Gents! I've been around this shooting game for over 60 yrs already. Let me give you a bit of advice in my humble opinion.
The .454/480 as well as many other viable calibers such as the long gun 450,and others are little more then gimmicks to attract a select segment of the gun buyers market that" Just got to have the new hot caliber...this year"
Stick to the old stand bys. like the 45 LC, 44 mag if you want a heavy pistol caliber in a wheel gun or lever. If you handload you can hot-rod them up to more then you could possibly need them to do on any game in the world...dead is dead.
These old proven pistol calibers will be around with factory offerings and easily found reloading components for many years to come..(provide Gore/Hillary don't end that) ....at any rate much longer then an obsolete 450 or 480 brass will be in a few years. LF

Leadflinger is right. What's the need? A bloody .44mag or .45LC loaded properly, will enter at the tip of the tail and exit out the tip of the offside antler.

If you need more juice and/or range there are plenty of non-pistol cartridge choices that make more sense.

Charlie: I see you are a man of good sense...well at least you agree with me. and that makes proof you have good judgement.
the trouble with some of these guys is they fall victim to advertisement way to often. All gun manufactors pray this continues. But us old timers know that a good .22 a good caliber, a good .30 caliber plus a wheel gun in .40 caliber plus is all any man needs.
With that said i wonder why i have a gun safe full of everything from a single shot 22 short up thru a .50-90 ?????????????????????? Just love blued steel and walnut, I assume

Check out this article I came across at SIXGUNNNER. It might give you a little insight as to the strength of the Rossi 92.

BITS & PIECES....WILDCATS
http://www.sixgunner.com/paco/bits5.htm

Hey Guys
Here's one up for auction!!!!
www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=3264683;)

Time to workup some loads for this new Model 92.
Brass................Starline
Primer...............Rem 7 1/2
Powder..............H110
Chronograph......Oehler 35P 2' spacing between sky screens
3 rounds in each group 2 min between each round 5 min between each group. Chrono 15' from Mzl.

260 grain Freedom Arms as per speer #12
35.0 to 37.0 grains

35.0 grains, average 2065 FPS
36.0 grains, average 2100 FPS

300 grain Speer Uni-Cor soft point. as per speer #12
32.0 to 34.0 grains

32.0 grains, average 1912
32.5 grains, average 1955
33.0 grains, average 1975
33.5 grains, average 2018

I stopped short of max load to have a close look at the cases and primers before going any farther. So far everything looks OK except my shoulder. Accuracy seems very good, but the stock sights leave much to be desired!!!

Observations:
trigger very clean 4.0 lbs.... surprise #1
recoil pad works.................surprise #2
It points very nicely, a real plus!
The gun has a very smooth action and seems quite accurate.
Not all bullets will cycle through the action, check first before loading a batch of ammo with other types and shapes of bullets.
At this point the biggest problem I see is finding a good set of sights that work for me. Peep sights being my favorite option.
Time will tell how the Puma holds up.
I have worn out one of my Marlin 1894s from over loading, but I can fix that.
I really like this Puma, it seems to good to be true. Lets see how long this romance lasts. right now the puma has moved to the front row of my lever actions. This is going to be my new brush and close in gun.
Thanks for looking, your mileage my vary,
Dave Miner

Fellow Shooter,

Thank you Dave for linking me here.

I have the 454 Puma, that I purchased about 6 months ago, or so. I love mine, and have only one real complain, the cheap safety. Mine is gone, now.

As to being influenced by hype, or needing to have the newest, hottest thing on the market, well....
how about wanting a lever action mate to my FA 454 pistol. That is why I bought it, and that concept is almost as old as the lever action design, itself. As to the 454 becoming obsolete, well it has been with us for 25 or so years. That is not long in the grand scheme of things, but it is certainly not "heading for oblivion". We have more entry into the manufacture by mainstream gun makers. That is a good sign.
I bought my pistol, a FA 454 83 4 3/4" not because I had to have the hottest thing going, but because I wanted a FA pistol, and thought that the 454 gave me best of all worlds. Finely made, small enough to be with me constantly, and hot enough to handle any critters I might ever run into. I was perfectly content with warm/hot loads out of my Vaquero, but the Vaquero is NOT a FA gun. It is a wonderful gun, enough if I had not wanted a FA gun.

My Puma has been one hundred percent reliable with every bullet shape that I have put into it. 240-360 grains, jacketed, lead, and LBT style. My current load for both guns is a 335 Cast Performance using H4227. It is a mid 40k load, and is a joy to shoot out of either gun. It is only at warm 45 Colt levels, but as a few of you noted, dead is dead. Now to find something to hunt with it. It might be elk this year, or deer or Javelina. In any case, it will work, if I do my part.
My thoughts, respectfully, Craig

My personal opinion. No man should have to justify or excuse any firearm he chooses to hunt with, if it works for him, and he keeps ethics in mind, nor should he have to justify why he wants this one or that one. Sure there is hype, and some of us are set in our ways, but I have way more guns than I need, but I won't give any of them up, and I shoot them all occasionally. **** half of the folks driving SUV's and pickups don't need them or use them in the intended manner, but it is still a free country, and God willing it will stay that way. Just my 2c.

was in response to those who think that anyone who buys something other than what they like is based on hype. I have not visited this site in a while, and was directed here by another poster, who knows that I have a Puma. I guess I might have to visit more often. Funny thing, that I will add, is that part of my reason for going down the 454 path was to reduce the number of guns that I own. The 4 3/4 FA 454 works well for full time carry, in the hinterlands, and has enough barrel for hunting. It also has the adjustable sights that I really need, and that the Vaquero did not have. And, I have reduced my handgun arsenal, by quite a few. With the addition of the rifle, I should be good to go for any imagineable critter that I might hunt, or that might hunt me, out to distances that are long enough for the way that I like to hunt.

I hope that your relocation decisions are going well, and you will always have my respect and thoughts for serving this great country. Craig

Er, ah, not sure where this discussion took on the "Rights of Man." I didn't check this morning, but I think you can still post your opinions without censor or punishment.

Re: .454: it's a niche market. Best practical use is as bear protection and handgun hunting. However, it goes from being the mostest pistol cartridge to the equivalent of the "best midget basketball player" in a carbine. The performance gap between a small frame .45LC carbine and a 45-70 Guide Gun is pretty narrow, and you have to muck up the old little guns to do it.

If you have a pistol in the caliber, yea, why not get one, you have the cases and reloading equipment. If you don't, well, ....

Of course, this is the law of logic and you must obey. :p

I was going to get one, but ended up getting a Trail End Win 94 in .45 LC. :D I didn't have a Lever Gun in my collection and since I wanted to do a pistol hunt this year with the lever gun as the camp gun (for those night time critters(two an four legged) . My pistol is a SRH 454 so yes the original though was to have two in same caliber-less ammo to carry(when packing deep and on foot every oz. counts). When I went to get my new toy I was looking at the Puma -nobody had any and in talking to the dealer he told me that they were hard to get and the ones he had seen at shows and other shops were not of the quality that I would like -he knows me well -bought many a gun from him. So he suggested that I go with the .45 LC. Got it and I'm not loosing any sleep for not getting the Puma! The .45LC loading will give you all the power needed to take most anything as I'm sure the 454 will! :D

I was simply responding to the notions in the thread that some of us only buy on hype, or latest and hottest. No one mentioned the notion of having a levergun to match a revolver cartridge. And you are correct about 45 Colt, 45-70 and 454. I have all three. In the upper end of their loading, they are all close enough that no critter in the world would know the difference. It just becomes a matter of how you want to split that hair. And it is the hair splitting that can keep things interesting. You want to get some 454 fanatics riled up, tell them that your 5 shot conversion 45 Colt is superior to the 454. They are twins on paper, the only real difference is the platform on which they are built. Again, as was previously posted, dead is dead. I actually load my 454 down to warm 45 Colt levels, because I have not mastered the 454 yet. I will take a properly placed bullet at 1200-1300 fps over a 1600 fps miss, any day. Craig Gillio

I just bought my Puma .454 levergun today! I had to have a levergun to go with my .454 SRH. I will take it into the desert with my chrono hopefully this weekend!
-Mike

I suspect there are at least 100 reasons, both ways, on why or why not have something more powerful than .44mag or .45LC. And I understand "dead is dead". But the direction towards more powerful handguns/lever actions is interesting to me irregardless of what we identify as mature logic. I have always enjoyed the .44mag and .45LC for the loading range they offer. I can load them for plinking and for hunting. One is enjoyable to shoot and the other can become a chore to shoot. An afternoon of .44, .45LC or .454 full loads from bench (load development) leaves my 65 year old, office worker hands hurting for several days. But as the Army told me, "It hurts good." I don't see any reason that this "loading range" or "hurts good" must be limited to .44mag or .45LC capabilities. So as far as I'm concerned, it's good clean fun and I'm looking forward to my first attempt at the .475 I've got on order.

I hope folks continue to update us on the reliability and performace of the new Puma offering. It does seem like a good companion to the .454 revolver that is quite popular.

As they say, my 2 cents worth.

Dan

will always have bigger and faster. Just like cars, or other sports, there is always a segment of the population that wants bigger and faster. Just human nature. And also human nature, in my opinion, as we age, we tend to move away from those things. I enjoy the results of the want for bigger and faster, I just get perturbed when I see someone want to push a cartridge to it's upper limits, AND beyond. Everyone has heard, "Get a bigger Gun". If you look logically at what some are trying to do, it seems silly. How much better does a 300 grain bullet kill at 1500 vs. 1200 fps. The critter will never know. But, when I, or someone who has never shot a 454 touches one off, it makes everyone smile BIG TIME. There is something about that kind of power that brings joy, even at the expense of sore hands. And isn't that what shooting should be partially about, having fun. I do not buy into the argument that I need a 454 for what I hunt, and do, but it is a joy to own, especially in a FA gun. But, I can look at the argument logically, and logic tells me that a cartridge that is in the high 50k range, needs a whole lot of respect. Respect for the gun it is in, respect for my handloading practices, and respect for the animals to learn to shoot it well. I have a good grasp of the first two, and am working on the third. As a note, I watched a guy put a 454 front sight into his forehead a couple of years back. Under all the blood, was a big smile. He was young, shooting with a lot of other more youthful shooters. I think that most of us have been in that circle at one time or another, in our lives. The trick is to get past it, with all of our body parts. So, as long as someone is having fun, and not endangering themselves, or others, or trying to convince me that they have to have a 454 to kill a deer, or elk, because no other handgun will work, I say go for it.
My 2 cents, Craig Gillio

Question:

Will Winchester or Marlin step and add the .454 to there lever actions lines?  Would Winchester or Marlin have to beef-up there rifles to handle  the .454?

I would think that a .454 from a 24" could go over 2000 fps with out any problem.

How much diference functionally would there be between a .454 or Marlin 444?

Tim


I just took my new 454 out for a shoot yesterday. I had some 45 lc cowboy ammo from magnitec and some hornady 300 grain. I didnt bench rest it but at 90 paces it shot a four shot group of about 4 inches and I threw one out, low at about 7 inches. I was surprised that the lc ammo would carry that well - showed no sign of dropping and it seemed like the 300 grain stuff had almost the same point of impact. We shot some junk equipment in the junk pile and the 300 gr bullets blew through 4 thicknesses of galvanized steel where the cowboy loads only dented the third layer. I really like the gun and plan on using it exclusively from now on for deer. Any recommendations for volume reloading press and lubrisizer?

I am new to the computer ao bear with me. I have two 454s from Freedom Arms, been reloading for them since the earlie 1980's. Really love them . Now have aquired a mod 92 Rossi and have some 500 rounds through it. The Rossi makes an excellent companion to the Freedom Arms revolvers. would not be without any of them/

Roper, Welcome to this forum, computers, and Puma ownership. Lot's of times, if we are not shooting or thinking about it, we are talking about it. The computer is great for that. Its midnight here and I can talk without bothering the neighbors at all...touch off that Puma 454 at this time though....