Over on the lever gun area of this forum there was (is) an long thread concerning the merits of the 45/70 for African and Alaskian dangerious game. The question of caliber for Alaskian hunting (especially the great bears) is a frequent one on this forum. My question is what do Alaskian guides use - by this I mean caliber, scope/iron sights, type of action, stock, action & barrel material, etc.?

Understanding that a guide carries his gun for a very specific purpose, and may carry something other than what he/she would recommend to a client. I am curious. Not that I would run out an buy what they typically or commonly carry, but such a discussion would be of interest to those of us who dream / anticipate an Alaska hunt.

Thanks for any responses to this inquiry.

Back in the late 70's I spent five years in Alaska. I wrote an article on bear hunting for the Army newspaper I worked for. Upon interviewing some of the folks that guided hunters I found that most of them used a bolt action 375 H&H and a few used a 338 Winchester Mag.

I don't know if that has changed much, but they both have the bullets and power to do the job.

faucettb's reply was right on the money. 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H Mag seem to still be the favorites. More and more are using heavier rifles though than they have in the past. 416 Rem Mags, 458 Win Mags, and 458 Lotts now that those are being commercially produced in rifles not costing a fortune.

I do not, personally, know of a single professional guide here in AK, at least not bear guides, using a 45/70. I do know there are many residents that pack a 45/70 for self protection from bears. In fact, I think Phil Shoemaker carries a 45/70 while fishing. When guiding bear hunters he uses a Mauser actioned 458 Win Mag.

Ed Stevenson has used a 45/70 in the past, but I believe he uses a 411 Hawk now. The 45/70 was in a Winchester 1886. His 411 Hawk is a Winchester 1895. I believe one of his sons is carrying a 95 Winchester in 375 Scovill-Hawk.

But as faucettb replied, the majority are using 338's and 375's. I know of 4 guides that have recently switched to 416 and 458 Mags.

also quite a few people i have talked to that hunted on kiodiak said there guides use the model 1895 in 405.

Alyeska338:

Beside calibers of choice, do the guides perfer mauser style actions, what of Browning BARs or push feed bolt actions? Do guide normally scope their rifles, if so what magnification(s). Do they perfer short barrels or "standard" lenghts for the caliber used? Do they select rifles in stainless steel with synthetic stocks or are they traditionalists?

Thanks.

There doesn't appear to be a consensus on which specific bolt action they prefer. I've seen Mauser, Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Remington and Browning bolt actions. As expected, since stainless and synthetic stocked rifles have become widely available, those seem to be prefered. The blued rifles that are still being carried have been metal treated with some type of additional corrosion resistance, either teflon, or one of the gun-specific coatings or something as simple as paint.

There doesn't appear to be a consensus on which specific bolt action they prefer. I've seen Mauser, Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Remington and Browning bolt actions. As expected, since stainless and synthetic stocked rifles have become widely available, those seem to be prefered. The blued rifles that are still being carried have been metal treated with some type of additional corrosion resistance, either teflon, or one of the gun-specific coatings or something as simple as paint.


Given the amount of hunting press given to control feed actions (i.e., Winchester, Ruger, or Mauser style) I am surprised to see Sakeo, Browning and Remington on the list. Personally, I like what Remington has done to weather proof the new XCR model 700 (and its available in 375 H&H), but thought the push feed was a no, no, for dangerious game.

When I ran my small shop in Alaska I did a lot of business having guns done with the armaloy finish. This is an electroless nickle plating that is acid and rust resistant.

It was especially popular with shotguns used on fishing boats. It has the added benifit of being very hard. It was originally designed for coating stamping press dies for metal working.

It has kind of faded away since stainless steel guns have come on the market.

As far as the difference between controlled round feed and non controlled round feed bolt actions. they all seem to work. I've had Winchesters and now most everything I shoot is Remingtons including the one I hunted Brown's with in Alaska. I've never had one not work. Knock on wood.

I really believe that the reliability of todays modern bolt actions is excellent be they controlled round feed or not. I think this is a non-issue. I know that those whose favorite might be a controlled round feed might dissagree, but you can't fault all the Brownings, Sako's and Remingtons out there shooting game every day.

Just remember you can never own enough guns, though I don't say that often around my wife, I just hate the way she growls at me.

Phil Shoemaker has an article in this month's Successful Hunter magazine. His daughter found a Rem 700 .338 WM buried in a sandbar on a river. Was a stainless with carbon steel parts (trigger assembly, bolt locking lugs, safety, gas shroud, striker, springs, scope mounts, etc). The stainless was still in good condition. All the carbon parts were rusted beyond use. The Burris 6X scope was filled solid with silt and water. The bolt handle (which is welded to the bolt body on all Remingtons) came off when trying to get the action open. The synthetic stock was still in great condition.

Guess if you plan on losing your rifle overboard, or leaving it in the river for others to find, you could do them a favor by getting the all stainless models. :D

I am a firm believer in CRF firearms for dangerous game. I know this isn't shared by several well-known writers and hunters, and is by others of the same standing. For the guides here in Alaska, there are those that have had problems with the pushfeed type rifles (Sako, Weatherby, Remington and Savage) that have switched to Mauser actioned rifles or Winchester or Ruger. Some have not had any troubles. Those that have did, pay for it in a terrible way.

I'm not saying CRF rifles are perfect off the shelf, either. Before going after a bear in the dense alder, willow, and devil's club jungles, make sure whatever rifle you use is 100% reliable and you are intimately familiar with its operation.

I will say this about SS/Syn vs. CM/Wood rifles, it doesn't matter which you use. Both require maintenance to ensure 100% reliability. Salt air will corrode stainless actions and barrels, just as it will Chrome-Moly steel rifles. You cannot neglect either. Wood can be treated to be stable in the wettest of weather. I've never had a shift of point of impact with any of my wood stocked rifles. Wood isn't as loud in the brush as synthetic is. Some people don't wish to ding up a wood stock, but don't care if they ding up a synthetic stock. That's a personal issue. The one virtue of synthetic stocks over wood stocks that I can see is synthetic stocks won't break if they fall off a mountain while a wood stock might. I can understand why a guide might prefer a synthetic stock, but most of us hunters on these boards are a bit of gun cranks anyway and tend to take care of our equipment. If you will take care of your rifle and not abuse it, either will serve you fine. If you want to just throw the rifle around and leave it lying in the river or the bottom of a canoe for weeks on end, you might want to consider a ss/syn rifle. If you will take the time (sometime in the summer or after hunting season is over) to treat the wood stock, then before going hunting apply oil or a wax to the exposed metal surfaces and wipe the rifle down at night before turning in, either will serve you very well.

Thanks, Alyeska338;

I read one of your other posts in which you stated your fondness for wood/blued steel.

Concerning action type, my stance is better safe than sorry.

Do guides usually scope their rifles?

Most of the guides I talked to used open sights. These were rifles designed to back up a client if something went wrong and scopes were a no-no for a close range encounter with a big animal whom had no fear of you.

Another thing to consider is a big brown bears heart beats at something like 13 times a minute. you need something that will break big shoulder bones at close range. I've read stories about big bears with their heart blown completly running right over the top of a hunter.

Most of the guides I talked to used open sights. These were rifles designed to back up a client if something went wrong and scopes were a no-no for a close range encounter with a big animal whom had no fear of you.

Another thing to consider is a big brown bears heart beats at something like 13 times a minute. you need something that will break big shoulder bones at close range. I've read stories about big bears with their heart blown completly running right over the top of a hunter.
Perzactly! :D

Since guides do not usually scope, what type of sights do they recommend for their clients?

Since guides do not usually scope, what type of sights do they recommend for their clients?
I think most guides would hope their clients shoot scope sighted rifles. It allows for much more precise placement of that all important first shot. If done properly, there isn't a need for the guide to use his open sighted "fighting" rifle. I would choose a low power scope, something along the lines of the Leupold 1.5-5, 1.75-6x or similar. Bears are not taken at long ranges. Most guides would be hesitant in allowing their clients to shoot 200 yards at an unwounded bear.

There is a difference between a rifle used for bear hunting and one used by the guide for stopping an enraged charging bear.

It makes sense that guides would use iron sights and clients scopes.

Thanks for an intertersting and informative thread.

Howdy Fella's!.........It's been awhile since I was able to find my way on the path but nonetheless I was able to hitch a ride on a fast moving train that Marshall Stanton was engineering down the tracks. Thanks Marshall :D :cool:

Now when I was in Alaska years ago, most guides carried, as was mentioned, the .375 H&H or .338 Win mag. A few folks on the river had a pump shotgun in the boat with slugs.

I was shown in the early 70's, the reason for having a rifle like the model 70 Winchester or today's model 77 Ruger, both having "contol fed action" big claw extractor and 3 position safety. My first .375 H&H ( I was very proud of ) was a fancy bolt rifle (push feed) on a 700 Remington action, with a custom 24" barrel and beautiful burl blonde wood stock. It sure was pretty to gaze upon!

However, that famous Alaskan brown bear guide of yesteryear, Mr. Morris Talifson, soon let me in on why a rifle such as he carried, could mean life or death when facing off against any bear in the elements. I had not yet realized or focused on the "big to do" over this subject of Push Fed verses Contol Fed. I didn't really know there was such a standoff concerning what action etc. I was always told, a Mauser Action is hard to beat....Ummmm OK!


I thought, I only had to worry about the proper caliber to use hunting big game such as big bears, not this gaget on a rifle or that type sight etc. I was soon to find out all the do's & don'ts, why's and what for's etc. One class I didn't mind learning about either. The information has been filed in my brain thanks to that great Alaskan guide ;)

Now almost 2 decades later, I noticed that some guides on the rivers (fishing guides) were having a .458 Win mag slung over their shoulders in case of bears getting to close for comfort.

My Ruger M77MKII "All Weather" with the zytel stock in .300 Win Mag wears a Luepold 2.5X8X32 just for close encounters with the big bears at close range. It has been the perfect setup, as I very rarely shoot past 200 yards for anything. I never liked stainless synthetic until I moved to Alaska, 90 above to 60 below, still shoots to the same spot if you use the right powder and bullet combo.

The bolt handle (which is welded to the bolt body on all Remingtons) came off when trying to get the action open.
:D

The bolt handle on remingtons are brazed on they are not welded and they do sometimes come off.I know of one coming off when my friend was elk hunting.My gunsmith said that he has fixed a number of them that have come off.The Remington bolt is a three piece bolt that consists of the handle,the body,the lug eah part is brazed on

Whats a south paw to do? Sure would love to have a left handed Winchester 70 stainless synthetic classic in 338. win mag, or a left handed Ruger 77 stainless synthetic in 338. win mag for my next rifle. The problem is Ruger doesn't make one and Winchester wants $2500.00. My God I'm a starving student, my wallets not that big. Anybody know of any options I've missed?

Whats a south paw to do? Sure would love to have a left handed Winchester 70 stainless synthetic classic in 338. win mag, or a left handed Ruger 77 stainless synthetic in 338. win mag for my next rifle. The problem is Ruger doesn't make one and Winchester wants $2500.00. My God I'm a starving student, my wallets not that big. Anybody know of any options I've missed?

You can purchase a CZ rifle (Mauser type action) and have a 3 position safety installed for couple hundred dollars. They your good to go!!!

The quality of the CZ has come up the ladder by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years. They make the big calibers also up to .416-Rigby and maybe now even the .458 magnum or Lott perhaps. You will have to check them out OK. :)

Whats a south paw to do? Sure would love to have a left handed Winchester 70 stainless synthetic classic in 338. win mag, or a left handed Ruger 77 stainless synthetic in 338. win mag for my next rifle. The problem is Ruger doesn't make one and Winchester wants $2500.00. My God I'm a starving student, my wallets not that big. Anybody know of any options I've missed?


How about the Montana Rifleman action. Available in left hand. You can buy either the actions by themselves, or a barrelled action.

They have the best features of the Pre 64 Model 70 action and Mauser 98.

Cheers,

Michael.

Winchester does offer the Classic III lefty in 300 Win Mag and 325 WSM for an MSRP of $810. Should be able to pick one up for considerably less at various dealers around the country.

Thanks guys, looked up some info on Montana Rifleman's actions, and its seems that their the answer to my left hand bolt gun woes. Planning on treating myself to one in May for a graduation gift to myself. I'll hopefully have some good stories to to share with ya'll about it. Thanks again for all of your responces, and sage advice guys.