Anyone tried these yet? I can't find them in any local shops and wasn't keen on buying a brick of them via mail order until I try them.

Supposed to be a 29gr bullet with a 500 fps MV. Nothing spectacular but I'm looking for something quiet to pop the rodents without getting the livestock all upset.

Anyone tried these yet? I can't find them in any local shops and wasn't keen on buying a brick of them via mail order until I try them.

Supposed to be a 29gr bullet with a 500 fps MV. Nothing spectacular but I'm looking for something quiet to pop the rodents without getting the livestock all upset.


Have used a couple of bricks of them, but mostly for short range pistol plinking . Have shot them in various rifles.
1. The ballistics are beter in the pistol than the rifles...no powder charge, so friction slows them.
2. In rifles accuracy has varied from "ho-hum" to horrible. In the worst cases, the accuracy was a useless 3-4" at 15yards, in the best case the accuracy has been a useable 2" at 25yards.
3. Point of impact is always way-way low. Even at 5 or 10yards (rifle) the impact is between 4 and 7" LOW and many guns seem to toss these to one side or the other.


So...(assuming your rifles are like mine) if you can sneak up to within 15yards, resight in for the new point of impact of these rounds, you can kill rats with them.

I've got to concur with ribbonstone. I bought a box of these at the last gun show and after half a box he's right on about the accuracy. I've been afraid to shoot them in my 26 inch bbl CZ.

I would spend my money on something else.

CB caps are the next step up and are usually eaiser to find for sale. Still not going to be as accurate as good .22LR ammo, but they are a step above the little Aguilla rounds. A bit more noise, and you may find that unacceptable....old-timers will recognize this anology:
Aguilla Colibri = noise of a Benjamin on 2-3 pumps
CB cap = noise of a Benjamin on 8-9 pumps

Air rifles are a good choice for this kind of work..hit a rat right (and most air guns give you plenty of accuracy for that kind of placment) and they die on the spot..low noise...low penetration.
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In the 1970's, had a part time job at a small Roadway Express office with a rat problem. Couldn't put holes in the sheet metal roof or walls (and definately not in the freight), but had some rats that had learned to avoid the posion baits and traps.

.22 air rifle met the requirments...a miss or full body penetration wouldn't hole the walls. I don't like keeping spring guns cocked for a long time while I wait out a baited shot (would bait them...turn off the lights...wait for the noise of feeding...then jack-light them) so used a basic Sheridan.

Got some Remington sub-sonic, these are listed as having a MV of 1049fps with the 38gr bullet. Accuracy is not very good with these from my rifle (only tried them in the rifle). 2.5" avg at 60' while standard velocity 40gr will produce .75" groups at 50 yds. Problem is, the sub-sonics still produce that piercing crack that scares the livestock.

I see Aguila also has the sub-sonic sniper rounds with the 60gr bullet listed with a 950 fps MV. I'm not concerned with over penetration but once again, what's going to happen to accuracy with these?

Wonder what the legal aspects would be of using a muffler on the muzzle? No, not a supressor, but rather just a hollow tube that would just take the "crack" off the noise making it more of a "boink"? OH, I see a can-o-worms with this one! :eek:

Leave that last alone...anything desgined to modify the sound signature is likely to be big trouble.

Agree...subsoic is quieter, bt still a good bit louder than desired. The 60gr. load is worth a try in a bolt action or othere fixed breech rifle, but in semi-autos tends to be pretty loud from the action. Belive that action opens soon enough with these short cased rounds taht pressure is still high enough to create a good burst of noise from the chamber end (at least that's been my experience).

60gr. load is not likely to be accurate in a standard 1:16 twsit .22LR barrel. HAve tested them in many rifles, and am at a los to explain why some 1:16 twsit barresl shoot them decently but most 1:16 barrels shoot them poorly. Figure your odds of getting good grouping from them (in standard twsit barrel) is about 40%.

The only sure-fire way to produce less noise is to (1) use real sub-sonic ammo and (2) use the longest barrel you can obtain. 26" is noticably quieter than 22", and 30" is even quieter.

Yeah...you lose some velocity with a long barrel (which for quiet shooting is a good thing) but more important is that the muzzle pressure is lower when the bullet "uncorks". So what goes about 1080fps in a 20" barrel is likly to be about 1005fps...welll under the speed of sound...and at about 30% less pressure when the bullet exits.

A 32" barrled .22RF shooing Eley Pistol match ammo (which ends up exiting at about 995fps) is so quiet, range owners come over to see my pemit for a silencer.

My experience with the Super Colibris has been about the same as everyone here's. Super quiet but inaccurate and they drop so much, shooting a rabbit in my backyard is like holding a few inches over it's head and saying a prayer as I squeeze the trigger. I'm done trying them for that purpose. I'd probably go with CCI CB Longs, 'cause they are extremely quiet but they can feed with my rifle's action (bolt-action Marlin.) Both CB shorts and Colibris would jam up because they were too short and they were too short for the magazines.

But yeah bottom line they are quiet! Half the time I shoot one I don't know whats louder- the sound of the trigger *click* or the bullet firing.

another reason that I'm done with the Super Colibris is that even at the muzzle, energy is very anemic. My cousin was being stupid in a barn with some and shot at a sparrow a few feet away on a beam, hit a nail, and the bullet ricocheted and hit his bare arm. Bullet stung but bounced off. I question their killing power after hearing that. I haven't ever even hit a rabbit in my backyard because they are so innacurate and I hate the thought of wounding one where it could end up dying under someone's porch or bush where it would stink up the whole neighborhood. Aside from that wounding any animal is terrible and in that situation you need to be sure that you will be A. safe B. deadly C. stealthy and D. safe.

I'll take the extra *snap* from the CCI Longs if it will ensure a safe kill in a tricky situation.

Leave that last alone...anything desgined to modify the sound signature is likely to be big trouble.

Agree...subsoic is quieter, bt still a good bit louder than desired. The 60gr. load is worth a try in a bolt action or othere fixed breech rifle, but in semi-autos tends to be pretty loud from the action. Belive that action opens soon enough with these short cased rounds taht pressure is still high enough to create a good burst of noise from the chamber end (at least that's been my experience).

60gr. load is not likely to be accurate in a standard 1:16 twsit .22LR barrel. HAve tested them in many rifles, and am at a los to explain why some 1:16 twsit barresl shoot them decently but most 1:16 barrels shoot them poorly. Figure your odds of getting good grouping from them (in standard twsit barrel) is about 40%.

The only sure-fire way to produce less noise is to (1) use real sub-sonic ammo and (2) use the longest barrel you can obtain. 26" is noticably quieter than 22", and 30" is even quieter.

Yeah...you lose some velocity with a long barrel (which for quiet shooting is a good thing) but more important is that the muzzle pressure is lower when the bullet "uncorks". So what goes about 1080fps in a 20" barrel is likly to be about 1005fps...welll under the speed of sound...and at about 30% less pressure when the bullet exits.

A 32" barrled .22RF shooing Eley Pistol match ammo (which ends up exiting at about 995fps) is so quiet, range owners come over to see my pemit for a silencer.

I bought a box of the 60 grain subsonics along with the primer powered loads. They were so-so in my CZ with a 26 inch bbl. It was something to try and you know how that goes. After my testing and with half a box of both left I got to say the money would have been better spent on a hot dog at the refreshment stand.

The Winchester bulk ammo I get at Wally World is much more accurate.

32 to 40 grain lr ammo seems to work best. CB caps are silent in an old Savage I shoot. Subsonics work well in the same Savage, and my H&R Target 9 shot. .22 shorts are fine also, if you have a rifle chambered for them.

There is an easier way! find the burrow, add 2 to 3 tablespoons FF pyrodex or black powder, stand back and drop in a match, no more rodents! I use this for chip monks in NH. Less time, works great! For Rats I let my dog loose.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/jpattersonnh/IM000246.jpg
He's an American Water Spaniel, He Kills everything! Don't use him for hunting anymore. It takes the fun out of it for me, D@m dog! But he is fun to watch!

Ekoch424,
CB long's...listed as 710fps...may be the ticket? Are they as long as a "long rifle" or at least close? Want to use them in my Marlin bolt (detachable box magazine). Tried shorts but no way they'll feed from the mag and trying to one-at-a-time 'em is about as efficient and fun as beating yourself about the head with a 3 pound hammer.

Had problems with CCI primers and rimfires years back and just kinda passed them off since but I'll give them a try again.

I appreciate all the replies on this and the feedback on the "sub-accurate" ammo, y'all saved me a lot of money, time and annoyance on this. Thank You!

May get one to three of them to feed from a box mag, seldom get more than that. Rounds are shorter than .22LR's, so the feeding is a bit "iffy" as they stcak in the box...would expect at the worst you'd have a two-shooter (one in the chamber, one in the box mag).

Should be quiet enough for what you're planning, and in most guns accuracy is acceptable at short ranges. Some rifles will shoot them well out to 40yards or so but most limit out on rat-sized critters at less.

Two shots is fine with me, rarely need more than that anyway.

Two shots is fine with me, rarely need more than that anyway.


Loose track of who is still loading CB longs...Know CCI still does, but not sure if Rem. still does. NO real mater, haven't found much differnce between the brands...have found some differnce between lots.

Box mags. have been good about feeding one or two...tube mags. are less kind. The older guns that were set up to work with shorts, longs, and long rifles work fine (autoloaders won't cycle with teh low powered rounds, but you could hand cycle them).

MAy have to resight..CB's usually shoot a bit lower. Depends n how you keep the rifle sighted in with "real" ammo..may find that a rifle zeroed at 50yards with .22LR will be pretty close to "on" with CB's at 20yards.

I can't say that I have tried to use the CCI Longs in the box mag, but I do know that with the Marlin mags you can load 3 or 4 Super Colibris in with them stacking properly. All in all being able to have one in the mag beats single shot, and a few more is even better (however a one-shot kill beats all of course)

Calculated a few things, and the CB Longs generate 32.45 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle, vs. 11 with the Super Colibris. The CB's energy is 28 at 25 yards, and 26 at 75 yards. I don't think a 100 yard shot with that type of round would be very sensible, much less 75 yard. Anyways, yeah I'd go with the CB's for now. That reminds me, I need to go pick up more ammo.

Aguila makes a .22LR 60 grain subsonic that is about 950fps. That would solve the feeding issue.

I have a duplex recticle scope on it so I'm hoping that I'll find some happy medium as in if the CB's shoot on using the bottom point where the recticle changes size to work at 20yds then when I pop a mag in with standard LR's the cross will still be on...

If all else fails, I have two more options. One, put a liner in an old single shot I have and set it up for the CB's only or just ream it out to .25 auto and load my own popper rounds for it. I have a mold that drops 45 or 50gr for this one somewhere but I really just didn't want to create any more work.

Have lined a few barrels..it's a job within the reach of anyone with some mechanical ability and the patience to do things right. Can recommend that as you long-term solution; reline that single shot and keep it sighted in for CB's.

Chances are that you'll find some compromise with the duplex retticle...may not be at the thick part...but with a variable scope, can usually fiddle with the power ring until it is (on one rifle, with a 2-7X, CB's on on the thick part at 25yards when the scope is dialed to 3X).
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Picked up an old Sears semi-auto that was made to cycle with .22shorts, longs, and long rifles...and it does. Will hand cycle (making the gun a straight pull) CBs. Found the gun will cycle .22Short Standard vel. loadings (about 940fps). Louder than CB's but still quiet enough for populated areas....but I do have to special order the ammo.
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Use to have a H&A 922 action that I rebarreled twice.. Simple little falling block, easy to rebarrel. First rebarreling was with a 1:22" twist barrel (the old .22short twist rate). Chambered for .22horts, it shot well. Rechambered to .22LR's it shoot poorly with most ammo...but shot some brands just fine...an shot Stingers and the other hyper-vel. lite-bullets well.

Second rebarreling was with a 1:16 twist. Chambered for .22shorts, it shot JUST AS WELL as the 1:22 twsit. Rechambered to .22LR's, it of couse shot the .22LR well, but lost about 5-10% accuracy with .22shorts (which I attribute to the long jump to rifling).

I set that barrel back a bit and rechambered for the .22short only...not that 5-10% was all that great a price to pay, but was suing that rifle as my CB cap shooter...it stayed sighted in for CB shorts at 25yrds, but .22Short SV loads would be dead on t 40 yards with the same sight setting.

Was using a .22LR match reamer run in short for the .22short chambers and seperatly cutting the rim recess...might have done better with a match reamer made sep. for the .22short, but I doubt it.

Came to a cocnclusion that agrees with some of the older writtings: the 1:16 twist was made to let the .22LR's shoot better, it's not the kiss-of-death to .22short bullets. IF over spinning was the kiss-od-death, then none of our 30-06's would shoot with 125's or 150's.

Well, my '06 won't print better than a pattern with 125gr bullets but my marlin does quite well with shorts which threw me for a loop....that long jump but she still does it.

If the CB's shoot decent in the marlin I'll probably go for the liner in the single shot break open, super easy to work with! The low power is going to make it easier yet since I can set the liner in with a slop fit & epoxy rather than rely on the critical interfernece fit. Would definitely be cheaper and easier than re-boring and rifling. Can buy a generic .22LR liner for like $50 or so and just trim it off to make the chamber shorter.

Well, my '06 won't print better than a pattern with 125gr bullets but my marlin does quite well with shorts which threw me for a loop....that long jump but she still does it.

If the CB's shoot decent in the marlin I'll probably go for the liner in the single shot break open, super easy to work with! The low power is going to make it easier yet since I can set the liner in with a slop fit & epoxy rather than rely on the critical interfernece fit. Would definitely be cheaper and easier than re-boring and rifling. Can buy a generic .22LR liner for like $50 or so and just trim it off to make the chamber shorter.

That will work...most liners are thick enough to contain .22LR pressure, so epoxy will do the trick nicely. Have done it both ways, slip fit, tinned,soldiered and normal fit with JB Weld. Can's say one is any better than the other.

Can usually trim the breech a bit and lessen the jomp, but it seems that a tight chamber is more important than a short one. Given a match .22LR chamber in that liner, you'd not see much gain by shortening to .22CB length (are various match chambers available, but basically if you don't give the little bullet many room to eneter off center, accuracy is about as good long chambered as it is short chambered).

A lot of CB accuracy is out of our hands; specifically crimp strength variation. Can look at 10 fired cases and pick out the ones that haven't unrolled thier crimps. IF you can capture the bullets without damage, will find some that have NOT bumped up teir little heeled bases and others that have.
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Want to make .22's shoot BADLY? Take a random handful and wiggle the bulelts areound a bit with your fingers..don't break them out of the case, just loosen the cimp. Mix them in with the non-mucked with ammo, and watch your groups double or tripple in size.

Talking 25 yard maximum shooting distance with most probably being done within 10 yards or less. You got me thinking though, I've seen some of those cheap camper/hiker combo guns around for around $80 or less depending on condition. .22LR over .410 types. Likely not going to find a match chamber in one but it sure would be a lot easier and quicker to ream the chamber a little and just sleeve it to a tighter tolerance if the accuracy is not good enough. I'd be happy with 1.5" @ 25 yds being that most shooting would likely be at half that distance, I'd be looking at a .75" average which is sufficient for my needs.

See that, now look what you've gone and done! Got me thinking 15 steps ahead of myself! First thing is to find a box of them CB longs and see how they do in the Marlin...may not need do anymore than that but you've pushed me over the edge! Thanks!!! LOL

Gotta remember the wiggle trick when shooting against someone....all's fair in friendly shooting especially when there's a 20 spot riding on the group size! he he he

MAy be pleased with the CB's out of your current gun...which is kind of a shame as that would rob you of a chance to play with a new toy.

Sleeving a chamber is a bit harder than it looks, but it can be done. I've saved a couple of old Stevens tip-up pistols that way...for whatever reason, had eroded breeches but the bores were still good...so bushed the chamber (making DEAD sure it was on center to the bore) and chambered the bushing. Proably impossible to get it 100% dead center, but if you can work close enough, will serve (and save the original bore).

The good news is that if you screw up the sleeving job, you can still reline.

Heck, I wouldn't even have to sleeve the chamber, just send it to my buddy and let him put a little chrome plate on it to tighten it up. That's what I did with the wife's Yugo SKS that was a real sloppy fit chamber & bore. Think we put .0011" on the whole inside, huge difference!

You also got me thinking about something else too....not letting the cat outta the bag on it yet till I see if it works. snicker snicker

I am sorry for switching directions on this thread, but I am curious. Has anyone tried to hollowpoint/flatten the tips of the CB-type bullets? I just think doing those modifications would help making the slower bullets kill more efficiently.

Not yet, haven't gotten to the store to get some otherwise I'd know by now. LOL

Have a unique modification I do to standard LR's that produces excellent mushrooms w/o any loss of weight. They knock the fire out of most anything that can be taken effectively with a .22 Good boiler room hit on a coyote at 50yds and he ain't going more than 10yds. Take half the head off a squirrel yet a boiler room shot will drop them in their tracks w/o smashing them up like HP's will. I've found that most all HP's fragment and don't give any penetration which destroys edible small game and leave the little bit larger animals to suffer.

I honestly doubt the CB's will have enough horsepower to be effective and or ethical on anything over bunny size anyway.

Reguardless of what's published, will find CB caps averaging something between 630fps and 680fps (depending on barrel length and bore tightness)...just not enough vel. to expand the harder-than-pure lead bullets. IF you were to flat point them, try not to lose too much weight ad 29gr. just doesn't have a lot of excess weight to play with.

Basically, it tosses a 29gr. bullet at about the saem speed a Benjamin can toss a 14gr. pellet with ten-pumps (yeah...am aware of the modern springers and pre-charged pneumatics that can go much higher and use heavier pellets...but am using the common old Benjamin as an example). CB cap's bullet is about twice the weight of a .22pellet, and shaped a LOT better for keeping its velocity, but 29gr. at 650fps just isn't a great deal of power.

Certainly will kill rats, squirrels, and reabbits with a shot into the vital area (brain or heart), so keeping your range to the distance where you can consistantly hit a 1" target seems the best course.

The thing would be is to have a LR case loaded with a 40gr standard bullet but to a lower velocity, somewhere around 600-700 fps.

That does sound good.

Tried both out of pumps and bolt actions and the CB's were good. The Aquila were a little louder but more accurate and hit much harder. A little to much. I settled on the Aquila SE 38 grain hollow point sub sonic .
Quite and the soft lead expands well. Cheap too! Coles sells it for $12 a brick.

I see Aguila also has the sub-sonic sniper rounds with the 60gr bullet listed with a 950 fps MV. I'm not concerned with over penetration but once again, what's going to happen to accuracy with these?


markkw,
the 60 grain Aguila sniper subsonics are okay. Not great but 2 inches out of my 10/22 at 50 yards with 5 shots. Out of my Marlin 81, they worked about the same. Aren't worth a darn in a semi pistol.
They are slow. You can actually see the bullet and the vortex around it through your scope as they go down range. Kind of cool to watch.
Bolt noise on the 10/22 was noticeable and they use a really stinky powder. I mean nasty, bowl of beans, deviled eggs, pepperoni pizza and cheap beer the night before stinky. It was too much even for my not so delicate sensibilities.

Some semi-auto actions tend to open a bit early with those 60gr. loads...use a .22short case, wich also ends to release gas a tad earlier than the longer .22LR case; may find that a good bit of the nosie is coming from the breech end as it uncorks with some pressure still in the bore. Is noticably quieter from a fixed breech rifle.

But I've found accuracy to be hit-or-miss in the standard 1:16 twsit barrels....some won't group inside a wash tub, others seem to shoot it pretty well.

Even at the lower speed, those rounds (the 60gr. load and the 40gr. sub-sonics)are much louder than CB caps, which is a consideration if you are trying to keep noise to an absoulte minimum.

That's gotta be some stink Mike! :D :D :D :D :D

Still have not gotten any CB's...man, this BS of having to work for a living crap really sucks! :(

Anyway, I found a guy who's going to give me some 60gr snipers to try out but they've yet to materialize either. The shaving off of the bullet got me wondering if the 60gr bullets have less powder behind them than the 40gr, if shaving off say 10 - 15gr worth from the 60gr will make it shorter. Shorter length, slower rifling twist, bit more speed but will this also increase sound levels again??? :confused: ..... or, are they using the heavier bullet to absorb the speed and by lightening it up you're basically going back to a plain old LR round only exending a lot more money and time into it??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Have used the 60 gr and Super Colibre in my CZ452. Noticed that both will shoot well if the bore was clean. Seems like these rounds dont like any other fouling than their own. The 60 grain goes into about 3/4 inch at 50yards from a clean bore. The cat sneeze(hardly that in a 26 inch barrel) goes into about an inch at 25 yard. I know many people dont clean a 22 bore but its worh a try with these specialty rounds. The 60 gr is also very quiet in the long barrel.

How about any of the above out of a 6.5" Single Six?

I bought a brick of the 60 grain Aguila's, we'll see what they do out of my Marlin 75-20 and my Single Six. Just curious.

How about any of the above out of a 6.5" Single Six?

I bought a brick of the 60 grain Aguila's, we'll see what they do out of my Marlin 75-20 and my Single Six. Just curious.

I've shot about all of the above out of my .22s.

Since they wouldn't cycle my SAs I started looking for a bolt gun. Found a very nice Steves 86C at a gun show for $75. It works great. I can stuff about 2 dozen CB Shorts in that thing and they make noise about like a spit. The loudest noise is when the lead hits the 1" pine target mount board. They go through that easily, with jagged splinter holes.
It's sort of Psst-Whack!

They seem to be pretty acurate, but I haven't made a test for groups. My older eyes and those little open sights don't agree. Once I find a peep that will work I'll report back. I don't really want to scope it, but I might just for the purpose of this test.
As for pistols, again, they would not cycle my S&W 22A or my old M101 Duramatic, so I bought a couple of revolvers - Heriatge Rough Rider 6" barrel, and a Single Six 5.5 Inch barrel. Out of both of these, the report is quite a bit louder than from the rifle. More noise than I care to make, although it's borderline with the Heritage. I was really hoping the Ruger would be quiet enough, but I'm not comfortable with it.

Somewhere I saw plans for using a laptop and microphone as a sound meter. Maybe I'll look into that, and order that chronograph I've been putting off.

Just felt like updating this would be worthwhile to some... I dropped a couple rabbits with CB longs in the past week. They do feed just fine in my Marlin bolt action and surprisingly the trajectory isnt that different than normal ammo at close (backyard) ranges so I hold the crosshairs right on. Both rabbits dropped in their tracks... one was a head shot and the other was facing away from me without a certain head shot so I put the bullet in its lungs from its hindquarters and it dropped it right away.

Bottom line, they're very quiet and work well.

Hey all! I have shot ground hogs at 48' to 50' in the garden with cci cb longs with a hand driled points, out of a rugger 10/22 used as a strait pull bolt, It works just fine if you hit them in spine or brain. the scope is set for 25yards with standard 22's at the short range it's right on for head shots. :p

I like the Aquila Super Colibris, but I'm using them for indoor plinking in an apartment. They're quieter than my pellet gun (out of my Marlin 39A - they're louder in my revolver), and fairly accurate at close ranges. I stop the bullet without any problem using some magazines in a shoebox. I love the way I can shoot my "real" guns indoors using these rounds, but I can't imagine trying to take any game with them.