I have a 336rc 30/30 and would like to upgrade to a heavier bullet. I'm thinking of .444 cal. I looked at a used one with a scope at a gun show last weekend and he want $495 for it. It seemed a little high but don't know what they cost new. I want to stay with the lever action Marlin. Any suggestions?

444 is a good choice, but the 45-70 might be a little more versatile.

Around here 444s in good to excellent condition usually go between $375 and $425, so whether that 444 is a reasonable deal or not probably depends on the value of the scope.

444 is a good choice, but the 45-70 might be a little more versatile.

Around here 444s in good to excellent condition usually go between $375 and $425, so whether that 444 is a reasonable deal or not probably depends on the value of the scope.

Thanks for the info Ratltrap...I'm not familiar with either the 444 or the 45-70. Been shooting 7mm for a long time and just acquired the 336-30/30. Just a lot of fun to shoot and thought of getting something with a little more horsepower. I guess it comes down to cost and availability of ammo. I'll watch the forum to see the popularity of each caliber. thx

Uncle Bob,

I can't and won't get into the "which is better" argument between calibers. What I can tell you is that the .444 has much to recommend it. I've owned one for about a year.

I like the simplicity of two or three excellent factory ammo choices and the ability to work up good handloads without trying a dozen bullet/powder combinations. I don't do cast bullets but that adds a whole new dimension to the .444.

Ranch Dog is quite knowledgable on all aspects of the .444. And there is plenty of discussion on the Marlin Owners .444 forum.

The 444 and 45/70 are both great calibers. The 444 is just a smidge flatter shooting. The 45/70 is a lot more common, meaning more variety in rifles, ammo, and loading components.

Take a look at the stainless guide gun in 45/70. Pretty hard to beat that one for a hunting rifle. There isn't an equivalent 444.

your needs should be based on if you are going to hunt or just target shoot and both calibers are darn good rounds. Studies suggest that the .444 Marlin has greater down range effectiveness than say the .45-70. certainly the "old war-horse" has a proven track record with generations of hunters and is being passed on to the younger crowd as a viable asset to being a reliable meat gun.

If big bears are not on your list then I would suggest the .444 Marlin - overall. Seen one knock down a Ak. moose and it stood and dropped-packs a good punch-impressive. Both offer substantial recoil-just pick one, should be pleased either way.

Thanks all for the response.
I do hunt areas in Northern California that have black bear. Maybe the 45-70 is the way to go.

What are you going to use the rifle for? Have you had any problems with the 30-30? Another couple options would be the 35 Remington in the Marlin 336, or the new 308 Marlin Express. The 308 MX so far has one loading in the 160 gr Leverevolution load, but it is very close to the 308 Win in ballistics. If you are hunting deer and hogs either of these would be a good choice also.

unclebob, this is just a suggestion, if you are recoil shy these big bores offer substantial recoil when loaded to be the "hammer". If black bear is the largest of the bear species you will encounter, then the least of the leverguns would be the venerable .30-30---outstanding levergun. Ammo cost are really affordable unlike the I guess Cor-Bon and other "premium" bullet manufacturers(I reload so I am not up on it) for the .45-70 or the .444Marlin.

Black bear hide is relatively easy to shoot into so the proper bullet for optimum penetration still can be achieved with the .30-30

There is just so many fine leverguns out there to pick from that you are going to have a tough time selecting what you want to shoot blackbear with. I really have had a hankering for the .348 Winchester but so have I for the .307 Winchester as well--alot to choose.

let us know what you buy--good hunting.

I shot a bear in Maine last September. I used a 30-30 with 170 grain factory loads from Remington. I got complete penetration through the chest.

When you look for one, be aware that the older ones have a 1-38 twist vs the 1-20 of the newer made rifles. Nothing wrong with the older one, but if you want to use the real heavy bullets available today it is iffy as to how accurate they will be. I believe with the 180 to 260gn bullets the slow twist would be okay, and you can push it a little faster with a slow twist (less resistance = less pressure)

Swany, which chambering are you talking about?

unclebob, this is just a suggestion, if you are recoil shy these big bores offer substantial recoil when loaded to be the "hammer". If black bear is the largest of the bear species you will encounter, then the least of the leverguns would be the venerable .30-30---outstanding levergun. Ammo cost are really affordable unlike the I guess Cor-Bon and other "premium" bullet manufacturers.

I concurr. If recoil is an issue then the 30-30 is fine, if you really want a heavier bullet, then the 35 Rem maby be what you're looking for.

You could also search for a 375 Win or 356 win chambered Marlin's. But you better not be price sensitive either as these two have a premium price as they didn't make a lot of them.

Swany, which chambering are you talking about?
Mike, the .444, sorry about taking so long been busy with my DJ business.

No problem.

Just FYI.... I've been working with the Beartooth 290 LFN and 330 LFN in a Micro-groove .444.

290s work great... had a bit of trouble with the 330s at about 2050 fps. Nothing obvious, just big groups. Finally noticed one hole slightly tipped... aha!

Evidently, with my components, just am not getting quite enough velocity with the 330s to stablize. I know Marshall can get them to shoot, but I can't with the stuff I have on hand.

Out of curiousity, decided to find out just where my rifle would start stablizing bullets. Turned about 0.050" off the noses in the lathe, making a 330 LFN into a 320gr. WFN.

Shoot great at the same velocity! :D

You can look up the bullet lengths on the Beartooth site and run them back through the twist calculators if you like.... but..... regardless of what the number crunchers say, a 1-38" twist Marlin WILL stablize 320gr. bulllets of the WFN profile.

If my gun had another inch of barrel, or I could get another grain of Varget into the case, probably wouldn't have had a problem from the beginning.

Anyway, I doubt that there are any 300gr. jacketed (flat nose) bullets that are longer than a 320gr. WFN.

For me, at least, the myth that a 1-38" twist barrel won't stablize 300+gr. bullets has been.... BUSTED!

Hope this helps.

I've got all three big bores and favor the 444 Marlin. It will kill anything in North America.

There is nothing wrong with the .444, my brother in law has one. Now comes the problem of finding the brass for it... no one, and I mean no one carries the .444 brass anywhere around, so that leave it up to him to pay $25.99 a box of Remington Express 240-gr JSP ammo. I do know the brass for the 45-70 is readily available and I do not have to special order it from MidwayUSA or another supplier.

Now you say it shoots flatter than the 45-70 ah which loading are we talking about. A bullet wieghing 250-gr in a 45-70 vs a .444 Marlin wieghing 240-gr and both loaded to shoot the same FPS, I really don't know which one is flatter. But for the reloader you have a better spread of bullets and loadings if you use the 45-70.

If you don't believe me just look at the CUP presure of the loadings offered for the .444 Marlin and the CUP of the good ol 45-70 and you will see that the 45-70 with its heaviest +P loadings is still under the CUP presure of the .444 Marlin.

Beartooth Bullets does have a 405-gr for the .444 Marlin for the handloader.

Its a personal choice