I've been offered to buy an original Winchester 1866 "yellowboy", chambered in 44-40. I know nothing about the toggle link actions of these rifles and would appreciate any info you can forward.
SFT

I don't know those actions either, but you might check with the Winchester Collectors Association web site?

When you say you are being "offered" this gun, do you mean it is a gift or do you mean it is being offered to you for purchase? In the latter case, be very careful. I watched a fellow on the Antiques Roadshow getting the bad news that two guns he'd acquired at an estate auction, and that he thought he knew the whole history of, were both forgeries.

The Antiques Roadshow's expert said over half of all the "antique" guns in circulation now are forgeries. Obviously, most of the sellers and collectors who have them are unaware of the deception. Even knowledgeable collectors can be fooled and it can require a forgery specialist or even lab work to tell the difference. This is what makes provenance important. If the seller is a friend you trust and they know their own great-great-great granddad was the original buyer, that makes a big difference. The Collector's Association even has serial number records for date of manufacture and who guns where shipped to, which was sometimes directly to the buyer by name, which can validate a claim. But if your source acquired the gun from another seller, especially within the last 40 years, as gun collecting has grown in popularity, then I'd get an outside expert evaluation done before making an offer.

It is being offered at a price comparable to buying one of today's reproductions, in other words, I'm not paying the price a genuine original would fetch.. This is a trusted friend and I believe there is a known and documented history. I'll keep you posted on what happens.


I don't know those actions either, but you might check with the Winchester Collectors Association web site?

When you say you are being "offered" this gun, do you mean it is a gift or do you mean it is being offered to you for purchase? In the latter case, be very careful. I watched a fellow on the Antiques Roadshow getting the bad news that two guns he'd acquired at an estate auction, and that he thought he knew the whole history of, were both forgeries.


The Antiques Roadshow's expert said over half of all the "antique" guns in circulation now are forgeries. Obviously, most of the sellers and collectors who have them are unaware of the deception. Even knowledgeable collectors can be fooled and it can require a forgery specialist or even lab work to tell the difference. This is what makes provenance important. If the seller is a friend you trust and they know their own great-great-great granddad was the original buyer, that makes a big difference. The Collector's Association even has serial number records for date of manufacture and who guns where shipped to, which was sometimes directly to the buyer by name, which can validate a claim. But if your source acquired the gun from another seller, especially within the last 40 years, as gun collecting has grown in popularity, then I'd get an outside expert evaluation done before making an offer.

I've been offered to buy an original Winchester 1866 "yellowboy", chambered in 44-40. I know nothing about the toggle link actions of these rifles and would appreciate any info you can forward.
SFTLook into this very carefully. the .44-40 was introduced in 1873 with the 1873 Winchester. Although the '66 was produced beyond the introduction of the '73, you might want to check Arms Collectors Date Check Website (http://armscollectors.com/sn/winlookup.php?file=win1866.dat) for the production date of this rifle/carbine. According to Madis' book "The Winchester Book", you may hear of a '66 that was chambered in something other than .44 Rimfire, he states they were most likely rebarrelled or converted.
Be careful, good luck.

Look into this very carefully. the .44-40 was introduced in 1873 with the 1873 Winchester. Although the '66 was produced beyond the introduction of the '73, you might want to check Arms Collectors Date Check Website (http://armscollectors.com/sn/winlookup.php?file=win1866.dat) for the production date of this rifle/carbine. According to Madis' book "The Winchester Book", you may hear of a '66 that was chambered in something other than .44 Rimfire, he states they were most likely rebarrelled or converted.
Be careful, good luck.

Thank you very much for such valuable information. So far the rifle has not shown up for me to inspect, and if it does and comes with the phrase "I've got a collector who offered me three times as much, but since I offered it to you through our mutual friend first I'll keep my promise if you've got cash right now", attached to it I'm gone.

Again, thanks for the info. I will keep you posted.

If the deal sounds "Too Good To Be True", is an "Exceptionally Rare Example", or is an "Unusual Configuration", I strongly recommend you"Run Away". "As Fast As You Can!"
I also recommend a review of your relationship with the individual in question...

I don't know those actions either, but you might check with the Winchester Collectors Association web site?

When you say you are being "offered" this gun, do you mean it is a gift or do you mean it is being offered to you for purchase? In the latter case, be very careful. I watched a fellow on the Antiques Roadshow getting the bad news that two guns he'd acquired at an estate auction, and that he thought he knew the whole history of, were both forgeries.

The Antiques Roadshow's expert said over half of all the "antique" guns in circulation now are forgeries. Obviously, most of the sellers and collectors who have them are unaware of the deception. Even knowledgeable collectors can be fooled and it can require a forgery specialist or even lab work to tell the difference. This is what makes provenance important. If the seller is a friend you trust and they know their own great-great-great granddad was the original buyer, that makes a big difference. The Collector's Association even has serial number records for date of manufacture and who guns where shipped to, which was sometimes directly to the buyer by name, which can validate a claim. But if your source acquired the gun from another seller, especially within the last 40 years, as gun collecting has grown in popularity, then I'd get an outside expert evaluation done before making an offer.

Nick,

I'm sorry to say that I don't agree with you very often but this time you are absolutely correct. I have been collecting Winchester models 94 for 20 or 30 years and I can still be fooled. I have learned to never say "never" about Winchesters and what the factory did or didnot make. However, there are ways to detect a forgery and yet any collector can be misled. Buy the firarm, not the story!

Some times the cost of education is very high.

Thank you for your comments

Jim

Nick,

I'm sorry to say that I don't agree with you very often but this time you are absolutely correct. I have been collecting Winchester models 94 for 20 or 30 years and I can still be fooled. I have learned to never say "never" about Winchesters and what the factory did or didnot make. However, there are ways to detect a forgery and yet any collector can be misled. Buy the firarm, not the story!

Some times the cost of education is very high.

Thank you for your comments

Jim

All comments, quotes, quips, and advice are greatly appreciated. I checked out the Arms Collector site and I've already learned a great deal about not only Winchester 66's but many other models and makers as well. It seems with the 66 just the length of the serial number is an immediate clue as to it's age and how it started out, Winchester seems to have changed it's numbering system drastically at some point in the late 1880's.
I checked out pics of the faked indian Winchester from Antiques Roadshow too. Until you get close, it looks very much like an authentic piece with the brass tacks and all, but the info on there is very useful too.

Look into this very carefully. . . . According to Madis' book "The Winchester Book", you may hear of a '66 that was chambered in something other than .44 Rimfire, he states they were most likely rebarrelled or converted.
Be careful, good luck.
.44 rimfire was the first thing that crossed my mind. If this is truly a '66 in .44WCF and you've just got to have it, suggest you range test it first for function and accuracy before handing over any cash.