I RECENTLY BOUGHT A .223 REM CAL., RUGER 77 STAINLESS RIFLE WITH FIBER STOCK. I PLACED ON IT A NEW 6 TO 24 POWER SCOPE. THEN I STOCKED UP WITH SEVERAL BRANDS OF AMMO TO SEE WHICH IF ANY THE RIFLE "LIKED".

AFTER ZEROING AT 50 YARDS, I PROCEEDED TO SHOOT GROUPS. THE FOURTH GROUP WAS HORNADY 75 GRAIN HPBT MATCH BULLETS. ALL THREE ROUNDS ENTERED SIDEWAYS---IE: 90 DEGREES ! AND ABOUT THREE INCHES BETWEEN THEM.

THE SIXTH GROUP WAS WITH HSM BRAND AMMO, 69 GRAIN, HPBT MATCH BULLETS AND THEY ALL ENTERED AT A SLIGHT ANGLE AS THE HOLES WERE ELONGATED.

THE SEVENTH GROUP WAS WITH WINCHESTER VARMINTER, 45 GRAIN BULLETS AND THEY WERE ABOUT 0.375 " C-C.

THE OTHER BRANDS DID NOT GROUP WELL, BUT THEY AT LEAST HIT NOSE-ON.

I CHECKED FOR A DAMAGED MUZZLE CROWN, OK. CHECKED FOR DAMAGE IN THE CHAMBER, OK.

ADDITIONALLY, ROUNDS DO NOT CHAMBER PROPERLY WHEN FED FROM THE LOADED MAGAZINE. AT LEAST ONE JAMS WITH EVERY MAGAZINE FULL.

IF ANYONE WANTS TO SHARE ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THESE COMMENTS, I'D SURE LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU. I'VE MANY GUNS AND HAVE OWNED OVER A HUNDRED ( I'M GUESSING) GUNS OF ALL TYPES AND I'VE NOT EVER HAD THIS PROBLEM. I'M GETTING OLD AND SOMETIMES DON'T REMEMBER WELL, SO FEEL FREE TO SAY WHAT IS ON YOUR MIND-----IT MAY HELP ME !

THANKS GUYS.

The heavy .223's, probably 69 grains and up, need a real fast rate of twist to stablize. They are intended for long range shooting with fast-twist AR-15s and the like. Just stay with standard bullet weights (40-55gr.) and you'll be fine.

HI MIKE G,

THANK YOU FOR THE WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT. I WAS READY TO SELL THIS MONTH OLD, EXPENSIVE RIFLE !

BEST REGARDS.

CSWARD

CSWARD,

Howdy, I live just North of you. Welcome to the best Shooters Forum on the Net.

Mike is right on the money. Stick with standard weight loads and you'll do fine. Also, be very careful when cleaning your .223. Those small bores are very easily damaged by overzealous scrubbing.

HI JOEL B.,

SO NICE OF YOU TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF. WE SHOULD GET BETTER ACQUAINTED.

BRIEF: I'M RETIRED, AM 68 YEARS OLD, LIVE WITH MY WIFE, BARBARA, ALSO 68, HAVE A DOG, GO SHOOTING EVERY WEDNESDAY WITH A FRIEND IN GIG HARBOR.

I RELOAD .223, 30-30, .270, .357, .454 CASULL ANS .45 ACP.

IF YOU OR ANYONE READING THIS HAS SOME FAVORITE .223 RIFLE LOADS ( SO FAR I'VE `ONLY RELOADED FOR MY CONTENDER) TO SEND ME, I'D APPRECIATE IT. ESPECIALLY OF THEY ARE FOR THE RUGER 77 MARK 2 RIFLE.

KEEP IN TOUCH, JOEL. AND ALL YOU OTHER GUYS TOO.

CSWARD
;)

At the request of Mr. Ward, this posting has been slightly modified.
Bill Lester, Moderator

HI BILL LESTER,

THANKS FOR ANSWERING AND THE ENCOURAGEMENT AND BACKING UP MIKE G..

DO YOU OR ANYONE READING THIS HAVE SOME SUGGESTED LOADS INVOLVING 40 GR, 45, GR OR 50 GTR RELOADS TO BE SHOT IN A RUGER RIFLE ? I SURE NEED THE HELP.

AND THANKS FOR THE CAUTION ABOUT POSSIBLY DAMAGING THE BORE.

YEARS AGO ( ABOUT 1984 ) I STOPPED USING STEEL OR BRASS BORE BRUSHES FOR ALL MY GUNS. I HAD BEGUN USING CHEMICALS EXCLUSIVELY IN THE BORES; SOME FOR BRASS FOULING, SOME FOR LEAD FOULING AND SOME FOR COPPER FOULING. I CLEAN BORES ONLY FROM THE CHAMBER END, USING FLEX RODS FOR GUNS NOT EASILY CLEANED FROM THE CHAMBER END. I AM ESPECIALLOY CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CROWN IS TOTALLY CLEAN. I TRY TO POLISH THE BORE USING TOOTHPASTE AS "GRIT" ONCE A YEAR.

SEE YA. THANKS FOR WRITING !

Mr. Ward,

Sorry, but I've never personally loaded for the .223. In fact my recently acquired .250 Savage is the smallest cartridge I've ever handloaded after about 18 years. All "my" experience with the round comes from that of a couple friends. I would personally start with Sierra's 50-grain BlitzKing for a good woodchuck load.

I don't have a .223 but a friend does and he uses Win 748 powder, and mostly Ballistic Tips as I recall.

Good luck. Sounds like the potential is there for fine accuracy.

HI MIKE,

THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS. IF YOU THINK OF IT THE NEXT TIME YOU SEE YOUR FRIEND, ASK HIM IF HE COULD E-MAIL ME SOME OF HIS LOADS ?

SEE YA, MIKE.

CHUCK:)

I shoot a Ruger Varmiter in 223 rem. My favorite load is as follows.
Bullet: Nosler 50 grain Bal. Tip or C/T 50 grain Bal. Silver Tip
Powder: W-748
Load: 27.7 grains
Primer: Federal Match
Brass: Winchester

I have shot this load in several 223 Rems and have not found one that does not shoot it well. I regularly shoot 3/8" groups at 100 yards with this load.
:D ;)

CSward, What gun do you shoot your .454 Casull out of? I'm looking for someone with some good Encore loads from a 12" barrel for this chambering, I'm in the process of getting one for hammerin Iowa whitetails. Please let me know if you have some good loads and if you shoot this gun or know of anyone who does, I'd really like some good plinker loads that won't kill my hand, i have plenty of access to heavy loads, but I think a 300gr. at 1100 fps ought to stop **** near anything in it's tracks if I do my part. Thanks,
Willie

Hi, Chuck:
How fast is the rifling twist in your rifle? If it's not in the owner's manual, use your cleaning rod with a snug patch and measure the distance it takes the rifling to make a complete turn. A 10" or 12" twist won't stabilize a long heavy bullet like the 69 and 75 gr. bullets you tried. You need a faster 7" or 8" twist for them.

The bullet makers have quite a variety of .224" bullets to accomodate the wide range of muzzle velocity there is between the .22 Hornet and the .220 Swift, with many points in between. Bullets like the Hornady SX, Sierra Blitz and Speer TNT work well in the .223. The newer plastic tipped bullets are supposed to expand over a wider velocity range than the conventional bullets. However the 40 gr. Hornady V-Max seems to run out of steam around 200 yards with my .222.

Bye
Jack

HI JACK MONTEITH,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TAKING THE TIME TO ASSIST ME.

APPARENTLY THE RUGER HAS A 1:12" TWIST AND THAT WAS THE REASON WHY THE HEAVIER BULLETS TUMBLED.

MAY YOU ALWAYS ENJOY GOOD LUCK, CLOUDY-BRIGHT SKIES, NO WIND AND WARM WEATHER BE WITH YOU.

CSWARD

HI WILLIE SELMER,

I RECENTLY ACQUIRED A RUGER SUPERREDHAWK IN THAT CALIBER. WHY ? DARNED IF I KNOW ! I DON'T HUNT, BUT I LIKE BIG POWERFUL THINGS---LIKE MY WIFE FOR EXAMPLE. THE PISTOL HAS A 7 1/2" BARREL MY RELOADING HAS BEEN VERY SCANTY---NOT LIKE MY WIFE---SO I CAN'Y HELP YOU VERY MUCH.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH A .44 MAG IN A TC CONTENDER AND IN A S&W CLASSIC 629 AND IN A RUGER REDHAWK HAS LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT THE HEAVIER THE BULLET DRIVEN AT AS MUCH SPEED AS YOU CAN TOLERATE IS THE BEST FOR THAT CALIBER. THE TC CONTENDER WAS ACCURATE WITH ANY KIND OF LOAD---EVEN THOSE WITH SMALL AMOUNTS OF POWDER TOPPED WITH A "CLOUD" OF DACRON TO KEEP THE POWDER NEAR THE PRIMER. THE S&W WESSON WAS MY FAVORITE---UNTIL I BLEW IT UP ! NOW S&W HAS ITS PARTS MOUNTED ON A SAFETY BOARD AT ITS HEADQUARTERS.

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE ONLY THING I CAN OFFER YOU IS A LITTLE HUMOR. MAYBE WHEN I RELOAD MORE FOR THE .454 I'LL CONTACT YOU AGAIN, WILLIE. GOOD LUCK.

CSWARD

I have shot and reloaded for .223 for almost twenty years now and my old Rem 700 will still group .5 to .75 inch despite a pitted bore and some wear and tear. I have had good success with IMR4198, Accurate XMR2015, Varget and H4895. I got good accuracy but fairly low velocity with 748 but not everyone has that experience. For bullets I get best results from Hornady. I used to use 50 or 55gr SX's but more recently I've used the V-max's and they are incredible! For data, go to the website for whatever powder company you choose and they'll have data for the common weight bullets. Good shooting and have fun! ID

PS: I sorry to say that I'm not surprised at the feeding troubles you've had with your rifle. I haven't had a Ruger rifle in over a decade on which everything functioned properly!

HI IDSHOOTER AND FELLOW .223 LOVER,

WHAT TWIST DOES YOUR REM 700 HAVE ? IF IT HAS 1 IN 12 INCHES, PLEASE TELL ME YOUR PET LOADS IN THOSE POWDERS. IF FASTER THAN THAT ( 1 IN 9 OR 1 IN 10, I'LL HAVE TO JUST DEVELOP MY OWN LOADS.

REGARDING MY NEW RUGER 77: AS I SHOOT ONLY FROM THE BENCH, LOADING SINGLE SHOT ISN'T A HASSLE DOR ME, BUT I DO LIKE MY GUNS TO FUNCTION PROPERLY. NO WONDER THE OLD MAN DIED. IF MY SON WAS SCREWING UP THE GUNS I WORKED HARD TO DEVELOP, I'D HAVE WANTED TO DUE MYSELF. HA HA HA.

THE TRUTH IS THAT A MONTH PREVIOUSLY I BOUGHT A RANCH RIFLE AND IT SHOT MORE LIKE A SHOTGUN THAN A RIFLE WITH EVERY TYPE OF BULLET I PUT THROUGH IT. THIRTY YEARS PREVIOUSLY, I BOUGHT AN ORIGINAL MINI-14 THAT WAS EXTREMELY ACCURATE. YOU PAYS YOU MONEY AND YOU TAKES YOU CHANCES---AT LEAST WITH RUGER !

I WOULDN'T EVEN WASTE MY TIME CONTACTING RUGER ABOUT THESE LAST TWO P.O.S. GUNS. I'LL KEEP THEM A YEAR AND THEN BUY A DECENT REMINGTON OR SAVAGE, WHICH HAVE NEVER GIVIEN ME A PROBLEM OF ANY KIND. THE RUGER WAS CHEAP----I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

THANKS FOR WRITING, IDSHOOTER. GOOD LUCK.

CSWARD

Hi, csward, and welcome, I used to live in Tacoma myself, when assigned to Ft. Lewis.
I don't mean to tell you your business, but it is a VERY bad idea to post your address or any other personal info on a public forum. I believe the folks registered here you can trust implicitly, but no-one can control who reads these forums...

Andy

CS,
That's probably good advice about not posting personal info on the web. If you want you can delete it, or if you would like I can do so.
As for the .223, mine has a 1 in 12" twist too. I am reluctant to post loads, especially max loads, on the internet in case some yahoo blows up a gun and tries to blame me. However, suffice to say I got my loads directly from the powder manufacturers' web sites. Addresses are:

http://www.hodgdon.com
http://www.imrpowder.com
http://www.accuratepowder.com

Load 'em up and enjoy! By the way, the heaviest bullet that shot well in my rifle were 64gr Winchester factory loads. When I bought the rifle, I got a box of those and sighted in. I walked out into the soybean field behind the house and immediately spotted a groundhog about 250yds out. I sat down, shot him in the noggin' and I was hooked on the little rifle right off! ID

Mr. Ward,

I think you're prematurely "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" with regards to selling your Ruger. Just because it didn't shoot well with ammunition never intended for it doesn't mean it couldn't be a spectacular shooter with 45-55 grain loads. My own Model 77R in .30-06 never shot a group larger than 2" at 100 yards. Most any handload made groups half that size, while a select few provided 3/4 MOA accuracy out to a measured 300 yards. That's with an inexpensive Redfield Widefield 4X scope. The rifle itself was untouched after leaving the factory. So give your newly acquired Ruger .223 a chance. I'm sure it will ultimately satisfy you as that model has for many, many shooters. After all, Ruger didn't get to be the largest sporting arms manufacturer in the world by making a bunch of duds. :)

And let me add to the previous comments made by Andy and ID. While you're probably safe from harrasment by Beartooth board regulars, you never know who is watching. I agree that you may want to remove your personal information from the public side of the forum.

HI ANDY,

HI ANDY,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE, WHICH WAS ENDORSED BY "IDSHOOTER" AND mR. LESTER.

AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M NEW TO COMPUTERS AND TO THE WORKINGS OF THIS FORUM.

THANKING YOU AGAIN, I AM

CSWARD

HI BILL LESTER,

THANK YOIU FOR OFFERING TO REMOVE MY PERSONAL DATA. I ACCEPT YOUR OFFER. PLEASE DO WHATEVER YOU THINK IS BEST FOR ME.

AS TO THE NEW RUGER, I DID VISIT THE RANGE LAST WEDNESDAY AND WHILE HAVING OTHER GOALS, I DID SHOOT A COUPLE OF 100 YARD GROUPS WITH THE WINCHESTER VARMINTER 45 GRAIN 3600 FPS FACTORY LOAD. THEY AVERAGED 0.619", WHICH WASN'T BAD BY MY STANDARDS AND THAT SHOOTING COMBINATION. I LOAD SINGLE SHOTS INTO THE GUN, WHICH IS A REAL PAIN, BECAUSE IT FAILS TO FUNCTION PROPERLY.

MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH RUGER HANDGUNS BEGAN 47 YEARS AGO. THE ARMY PROVIDED ITS SMALL BORE TEAM MEMBERS WITH IT. I USED IT, LIKED IT AND BOUGHT ONE OF MY OWN. THAT BEGAN A LOVE AFFAIR WITH THAT AND MANY OTHER OF THEIR PISTOLS.

I LIKE MANY OF THEIR PRODUCTS, BUT NOT THE ONE I CURRENTLY OWN. IT IS WORTH THE MONEY I PAID FOR IT, BUT I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHTEN A REMINGTON AND PAID MORE MONEY AND GOTTEN WHAT I WANTED. WHY DIDN'T I ? MONEY ! ! BEING MARRIED ! BEING ON " SHORT RATIONS" AND BLAH, BLAH BLAH. SO, I'LL LIVE WITH GUN. I'VE RECENTLY RELOADED MY FIRST SEVEN TEST LOADS THAT WILL BE USED NEXT WEDNESDAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONCERN, SIR, AND YOUR HELP.

CSWARD

HI IDSHOOTER.

I ACCEPT, WITH GRATITUDE, YOUR OFFER TO REMOVE OR CHANGE THAT PERSONAL INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS "SHOOTER'S FORUM" WEBSITE.

THANK YOU ALSO FOR THE WEBSITES OF SOME POWDER MANUFACTURERS. I FOUND SOME JUST STUMBLING AROUND THE NET.

I MUST ADMIT THAT MY RELOADING MANUALS WERE PURCHASED BACK IN THE EARLY 1980'S OR BEFORE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR KINDNESS.

CSWARD

Mr. Ward;

I used these loads in my AR15 and my Savage10 with great sucess. They both have 1/9 RH twists

Winchester Power point 55gr.---->25-25.3 gr of Varget.
Hornaday 52gr Match------->25.2gr. Varget shot 1" at 300yds.
Sierra, Hornaday or Nosler 68-9gr.------>24.5gr. Varget

Get yourself a good loadbook and do some experimenting!

HI m141a,

THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING YOUR HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS.

I'VE FOLLOWED THEM ALREADY, BUT STILL APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT.

I LOVED THE "THIS LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO HUNBT WITH AN UGLY DOG". IT SORT OF MADE ME THINK OF MY WIFE RATHER THAN MY DOG. I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO ATTAIN THE FORMER, BUT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ATTAIN THE LATTER. BUT I'LL LOVE HER ( MY WIFE AND MY DOG ) 'TIL DEATH US DO PART.

GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS YOU.

CSWARD

Always glad to help a fellow shooter!!

Be well,
Chris~

Mr. Ward,

A .619" group with factory ammo and an untuned, over-the-counter rifle is pretty darn good! I'd stick to 45-grain bullets for starters since it did so well with the Win. Varminters. As for the feed problem, Ruger has a reputation for excellent service and I'm confident it is simply a matter of a change in follower and/or magzaine spring.

Here's a strong word of caution. I would suggest getting new loading data and using it instead of almost anything printed in the '80s. Pressure testing equipment is leaps and bounds better than what was available then and data has changed accordingly. In several instances I'm personally aware of, significant reductions in propellant charges are shown in newer manuals. If cost is a consideration-and when isn't it anymore?- all the powder manufacturers have current data available on the Internet. I really believe you should set those old manuals on the bookshelf for nostalgia alone.

HI m141a,

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT ABOUT THE OLD MANUALS. TWO LOADS RECCOMMENDED FILLED THE CASE RIGHT TO THE BRIM OF THE CASE, WHICH RESULTED IN A REDUCTION OF 1 FULL GRAIN OF ONE POWDER AND 1.5 GRAINS OF ANOTHER POWDER ! WOW ! SOME DIFFERENCE, HUH ?

THE MANUALS WILL BE USED FOR HISTORICAL INFORMATION ONLY, WHICH IS SOMETHING I APPRECIATE ALSO, BUT I'LL NO LONGER LOAD FROM THEM.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR CURRENT KNOWLEDGE, m141a, AND EVEN MORE THAT YOU SHARE IT WITH ME.

IN THE 1980'S , WHEN I MADE LOTS OF MONEY TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY AS A TELEPHONY ENGINEER, I BEGAN COLLECTING AND SAVING ONLY THE MOST ACCURATE RIFLES AND PISTOLS. I ALSO BEGAN BUYING MANY MANY EMPTY CASES, ETC.. THEN I BEGAN LOADING MANY MANY ( I DON'T WANT TO SAY HOW MANY AS I DON'T WANT TO BE ACCUSED OF BEING A TERRORIST OF SOME KIND) CARTRIDGES FOR THE BEST OF THE BATCH OF THE GUNS.

THEN JUST BEFORE I RETIRED I DID BUY A FEW NEW GUNS THAT MUST ( BY MY MEAGER STANDARDS) NOW NEED LOAD DEVELOPMENT. BUT I HAVEN'T RELOADED SHOT SHELLS OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR 20 OR 30 YEARS. ALL MY CARTRIDGES HAD CLEAR FINGERNAIL POLISH PLACED OVER THE PRIMERS AND THEN THEY WERE PLACED IN HEAT SEALED PLASTIC. ( WHAT THE HECK, I TRAVELED ALONE WHILE MY WIFE REMAINED HOME WHILE WE PUT FOUR SONS THRU COLLEGE. SO I ONLY RELOADED AND DEVELOPED LOADS FOR 12 YEARS AND SENT MONEY HOME FROM ALL OVER THE GLOBE !

I LED YOU ASTRAY ON THE M77. ON THE DAY I BOUGHT IT I LEFT IT AT THE GUNSTORE TO HAVE A NEW ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER INSTALLED AS THE "ISSUE" ONE WAS UNACCEPTABLE. THEN I FLOATED THE BARREL FROM THE BARREL FROM THE TIP OF THE FIBER STOCK REARWARD. THEN I TOOK MY FIRST SHOTS WITH IT.

YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT RUGER, BUT I'M AFRAID THAT I RUINED MY GUARANTEE BY IMPROVING ON THEIR SORRY TRIGGER OFFERING.

THANK YOU AGAIN, m141a.

CSWARD

Mr. Ward,

Actually the comments you last referred to were mine. I wouldn't worry too much about your modifications voiding the warranty. Unless the changes were part of the feed mechanism they'll probably ignore them. I know of an instance where a Redhawk was returned with aftermarket grips and front sight and nothing was mentioned.

Hi, Mr. Ward:
Here's a link to Shilen's recommended barrel twists.
http://www.shilen.com/calibers.htm

Bye
Jack

HI jACK MONTEITH,

THANK YOU FOR SENDING ME THIS THIS LINK. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. IT EMPHACIZES WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO TELL ME IN AN EARLIER THREAD.

i SHALL PRINT THIS LINK AND FILE IT IN MY RELOADING NOTEBOOK.

I NOW BELIEVE THAT MY RUGER BARREL JUST NEEDED LAPPING IN WITH A COUPLE HUNDRED ROUNDS OF FAST JACKETED BULLETS. I DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE UP ON WOLF, SO I BOUGHT SOME 62 GRAIN AMMO OFF THE SHELF. THE FIRST THREE SHOTS AT 100 YARDS WENT INTO 1 1/2 " WITH A HORIZONTAL SPREAD DUE TO WIND AT THE TIME.

iN FACT, MY HERETOFORE GROUP LEADER, ALSO SHOT A 1.4" GROUP ---ALSO HORIZONTAL SPREAD DUE TO THE SAME WIND.

THANKS AGAIN, jACK.

CSWARD

:)

CSWARD

I told you this was the best shooters forum on the net! I've been hunting the last couple of weeks, so wasn't spending much time reading the threads, but I see that the in house experts are leading you in the right direction. Do you shoot at the the Tacoma Sportsmens Club? If so maybe I'll bump into you there sometime, or maybe I already have! You take care of your wife, yourself, and that dog of yours.

Good morning, Joel B.,

How nice to hear from you again !

Yes, this forum is the "best of the net" !

Yes, I'd really like to meet you , but I rarely shoot at TSC anymore. My friend who lives in Gig Harbor, and upon whom I rely to do my walking to and from targets for me, belongs to GHSC and we shoot there every Wednesday. But we are considering joining the TR&R Club, the two of us, because it provides us with the least amount of "company" on the early A.M.'s. We can enter the ranges anytime we want, but must still shoot according to the posted range times.

I'll have to research all your past threads, but you and everyone else at SF have made me want to meet you/them as you/them have won my respect for their talents.

I am not in your "league", but I'm a good BS artist ? Ha Ha

Best regards and good luck, Joel.

csward;)

Oh I'm not a handloader and don't know near as much as these other guys, I'm more of a hunter and gun-nut. Don't know why I've never handloaded. Used to load shotgun shells all the time, just never got going on rifle rounds. I've got a project planned for a 35 Whelen though and that will probably get me to buy the Rockchucker kit.
You take care,
JBabcock

HI JOEL B.,

RELOADING TAKES MUCH MORE TIME THAN MANY VERY BUSY PEOPLE DON'T FIND TIME FOR. I SUSPECT THAT YOU FALL INTO THIS CATAGORY.

I DON'T KNOW ANY RELOADER WHO HAS SPENT LESS MONEY ON AMMO BECAUSE HE WAS A RELOADER. THEY ALL SEEMED TO SIMPLY "SHOOT MORE" FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THIS, I'M SURE.

MOST RELOADERS I KNOW AND HAVE MET. DO SO BECAUSE THEY ARE SEARCHING FOR SOMETHING THEY AREN'T GETTING IN FACTORY AMMO. IE: ACCURACY, BULLET WEIGHTS, BULLET MATERIALS, LOW VELOSITY PROJECTILES USED FOR PARACTICE WITHOUT HEAVY RECOIL, ETC... FINDING SOMETHING THE COMMERCIAL BOYS DON'T HAVE IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE ANYMORE.

I'D CHANGE PLACES WITH YOU ANYDAY, JOEL. I'VE ALWAYS DREAMED OF HUNTING IN ALASKA, WHICH YOU DO A LOT OF. I'D LOVE TO HEAR SOME OF YOUR HUNTING STORIES SOMETIME.

SEE YA.

CSWARD:)

I shoot a ruger Varmiter in 223 and get extremely good accuracy from the following load.
Bullet: Nosler 50 grain Ballistic Ttip
Case: Remington
Powder: W748
Load: 27.7 grains
Primer: Federal GM 205 Match
I have been getting one jagged hole 3 shot groups with this load. (When I do my part) The best multiple shot group that I have shot is a 18 shot group that measured 3/8", I just wanted to see how many shots I could group before I pulled one off. Just one mans opinion, It might not shoot in your rifle but it sure shoots in mine.

And a great, good morning to you, HANDLOADER.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS WITH ME. THAT IS SOME SHOOTING, HANDLOADER ! I'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS IN MINE !

HAVE A GREAT DAY, HANDLOADER !

It's just called a good load and good rifle and it proves even a blind squirrel will root up an acorn ervery once in a while. It was one of those day's that I just could not miss, you know those shooting day's that seem to come by once a year or so.
I hope that my load will work for you I have several shooting buddies shooting it with good results.

Hey, CS, its me again!

To get a good idea of the optimal twist rate for any rifle bullet, square the diameter and multiply by 150. This is the twist for a ONE INCH long bullet. To get the twist for your particulat bullet in that caliber, just divide the 1-inch twist by your actual length in inches.

For example, the .223 is .224 diameter, and that squared is .050176...times 150 gives a 1-inch twist rate of 1 in 7.5264 inches.

I ahve in my hand a 40 gr sierra hornet, miked at 0.485 inches in length. The optimal twist for this bullet is 7.5264 inches divided by 0.485, or 1 inch in 15.52 inches.

I also have a hornady 75 grainer, miked at 0.985 inches, and the math gives an optimal twist rate of 1 in 7.57 inches.

Doing the math in reverse, the best length for your 1 in 12 twist is 7.52/12, or 0.627 inches. You can go 20% longer than this (0.075 and still expect good stability.

The more the weight is carried in the rear of the bullet, the longer you can go. So hollow points and polycarbonate tips give you a little more room in the length department.

Loadwise, W748 is a good place to start. It might need sr Mag primers, but that's not always true. An additional advantage is that it is quite cool burning, and leads to less bbl wear.

If you are shooting fast, try Varget as it is insensitive to the heat that will build up in your chamber.

If you want to shoot light bullets fast, try AA2230, it was formulated for the .223.

Good luck!

HI LOADER,
YOUR COMMENTS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME AND WILL BE ADHERED TO AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I'LL COMPARE THESE LATEST WITH THE SHILEN WEB SITE'S DECLARATIONS AND SEE HOW THEY COMPARE.
CONSIDERING THAT I'M STUCK WITH WHAT I HAVE NOW ( 1 IN 12" TWIST) THE SHILEN DATA INDICATES THAT THIS IS GOOD FOR BULLETS WEIGHING 63 GRAINS AND LESS.
OPTIMUM TWIST WON'T HELP ME A BIT. I DON'T CHANGE BARRELS LIKE I DO MY SHORTS---MONTHLY--HA HA HA
CSWARD

Hello C S --- This is my first night and first posting in the forum ....... in 1972 I bought a 77 in 25-06 and had feeding problems with my handloads ( first time I'd done that, too.) What I found was that I wasn't getting all the case lube off after sizing .... wiped them down thoroughly and they've rolled right up ever since. I've since then owned several 77's and haven't had feeding problems with ANY of them (though I also know shooters who won't touch a 77 because "They never feed reliably." This is probably an obvious "maybe" cure for your feed problem, but when I discovered it (on my own) it was like the Ford light bulb turning on. And, WW748 and 55- gr Sierra Blitz turns in .5" - .6" from the bench for me in the 22" SS Synthetic sporter. Regards from Montana.......

Hello Denurban,

Welcome to the best ****ed forum for shooters I've ever seen.

Thanks for the info and history with the M77 Ruger. For my own experience, this is the sorriest gun I've ever owned. Excuse me, that is wrong. The sorriest of all was the Mini-14 I had bought a month earlier. Both have 12" twists and shoot anything over 55 grains all over the target paper and can more accirately called a "pattern" rather than a `group.

But I am a poor, retired person now, who is stuck with this rifle and must now do whatever is necessary to get it to shoot decently ( less than 1 moa). I was lucky enough to trade the Mini-14 in on a Superredhawk .454 Casull. U have had excellent luck with Ruger pistols after having the triggers reworked for "target pull weights".

I've gotta shoot up a lot of 748 powder, but when that is gone, I'm going to cincentrate on Varget or BL-C2.

I dearly love your home state and have worked in Kalispell one winter. Br-r-r-r-r is the word that described the weather, but fan-n-t-a-s-s-s-t-i-c describes being able to drive 5 m iles out of town and watch the elk and deer.

Good luck and thanks for your message. I appreciate your taking the time. Have you seen my "humor" story of Montana fishing ?

csward

Hello C S, It may just be coincidence, but BL-C2 and Rem benchrest primers do the best job behind the Rem 50 - gr HP for me. Plus, I currently have (6) 77s and all have had their triggers smoothed and lightened to 2 - 1/2 or 3 -1/2 # depending on application and I may say, they really needed it. 25 - 06 now wears a mag-na-brake and it's a real blast ------ in more ways than one. But it's a joy to watch my 12 - yr old shoot it from the bench .......... I was born in Kalispell, and my three oldest sons live in Graham and Orting. Regards from Montana Denurban

HI Denurban.

I'm going to check out that loading when I ger some more empties. I shoot today so I'll have some soon. One of my test loads today is: Rem. Case; wsr primers, 27.7 gr of BL-C2, full length resize,LEE factory crimp and 45 Gr Nosler solid base boat tail. Hopefully, one of the ten test loadings will be at least fairly accirate.

You must be as sold on the M 77's as I am on Remington "anythings"! Hey ! have you freefloated your stainless barrel on your .223 ? I put a shim inder my foreend, but not enough to frefloat the barrel, but enough to relieve the tremendois pressure that Ruger applied. What are your thoughts on that ?

When you come visit your sons, I'd like to take you to dinner or go shooting with you or both. WOW! You've grown sons and a 12 year old ! WOW! Alolo my sond are in their 40's.

best regards.

chuck