i have a marlin model 1894 .44 mag,i was told by a friend that with a 240 grain jhpt, that anything under 200 yrds will drop like a load of bricks~! well i tend to question that i know that .44mag is a big game cartridge but my question is this---im wondering if it will stop a full grown grizzly bruin at a dead charge~?::)

considering that it has about the same energy as a 30-30 I wouldn't want to have to stop a grizzly with it. It's better than a sharp stick in the eye though, but I'd sure want more gun. I spent five years in Alaska and killed a grizzly with a 44 mag, but it was chewing on another fella and not me at the time. Got to say if you've ever seen a grizzly move at top speed you'd put the 44 mag away and look for something more in line with a 458 Win mag.

Most of the Army units that spent time in the field carried 12 gauge short barreled shotguns loaded with slugs.

I've handgun hunted for lots of years and you might tell your friend that hardcast lead is much more effective than jacketed hollowpoints in the 44 mag. That from killing lots of black bear and deer.

I think your friend has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. You could stop a charging bear in it's tracks if you make a spine or brain hit but that pretty tough under the conditions.

I love the 44 mag and my 1894. In a strong gun like a Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk, you can drive very heavy wide meplat bullets at good velocities. You can't do that with the 1894 for 2 reasons. First it will not stabilize over 300 gr bullets (1-18 twist). Second, it will not feed most of the heavy wide meplat bullets. It's one of the few cases where the handgun would be better than the rifle... if you can handle the thing.

That said, Faucettb said it well. For the charging griz a 12 ga with slugs makes a heck of a lot of sense. Even then, you better be real good and real fast.

considering that it has about the same energy as a 30-30 I wouldn't want to have to stop a grizzly with it. It's better than a sharp stick in the eye though, but I'd sure want more gun. I spent five years in Alaska and killed a grizzly with a 44 mag, but it was chewing on another fella and not me at the time. Got to say if you've ever seen a grizzly move at top speed you'd put the 44 mag away and look for something more in line with a 458 Win mag.

Most of the Army units that spent time in the field carried 12 gauge short barreled shotguns loaded with slugs.

I've handgun hunted for lots of years and you might tell your friend that hardcast lead is much more effective than jacketed hollowpoints in the 44 mag. That from killing lots of black bear and deer.

A 44 mag in a rifle is a LOT more effect than in a hand gun and in close quarters but some seem to not consider that. A big heavy 44 slug in a rifle would do better than a 30-30 here to. You would want factory 265 or 300 grain bullets (or even some heavy cast loads) because most factory 240 grain loads are too soft and open up too quickly for very large game and can yield sub par performance. This is not to say a 44 ma rifle is a prime grizzly gun because it is not but it is to say with right load within its effective range and in cool hands it is deadly. It would be best under 75 yards for very large game. You do not need a 458 to hunt a grizz unless you are a poor shoot and hope to "bowl" it over with energy.

This same thread got closed in it's other incarnation.

Mostly I think some are confounding the Grizz with smaller bears, like the Black Bear.

The 45/70 Govt. is the "standard" caliber for bear in AK. The "logic" is to use a large diameter, heavy bullet with a lot of energy. Make a large hole, break some bones, traumatize some organs.

Guides in AK use the Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 Govt because it's a lever carbine and fast to deploy. The .458 Win. Mag. is used by AK guides and African guides as a 'backup" gun because it's large enough to stop most any threat, even at a relative distance, but also it's manageable enough to be able to get off a second or third shot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_bear

i have a marlin model 1894 .44 mag,i was told by a friend that with a 240 grain jhpt, that anything under 200 yrds will drop like a load of bricks~! well i tend to question that i know that .44mag is a big game cartridge but my question is this---im wondering if it will stop a full grown grizzly bruin at a dead charge~?::)

Hollow points? no way. With a 240g jsp, yes, IF YOU MAKE THE CNS SHOT. I know of a couple of bears killed with handguns with that bullet.

But a hollow point? DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

I never understood the attraction of hollowpoints for hunting anyway. I think they're anti-personal loads, but that sure doesn't equate to a good hunting bullet.

If the 44mag or 45 colt had all the power that we needed, why would we have cartridges like the 45-70, 45-90, 444 marlin, 450 marlin, 458win, 460wby.... and a host more shells.
Now, 44mags and grizzly... First, If your intentionally hunting grizzly your probably going to have a guide lookin over your shoulder with a 338win, 375 h&h, or 458. And if the grizzly charges, its his responsibility to stop it, though I'm sure he would not mind extra lead in the air. So now you have to decide if the .44mag is enough gun for you to feel comfortable hunting griz with, and again I'd suggest some beartooth cast bullets over jhp's. Some of those big metplat bullets should do quite well againt them in my opinion.

I think your friend has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. You could stop a charging bear in it's tracks if you make a spine or brain hit but that pretty tough under the conditions.

I love the 44 mag and my 1894. In a strong gun like a Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk, you can drive very heavy wide meplat bullets at good velocities. You can't do that with the 1894 for 2 reasons. First it will not stabilize over 300 gr bullets (1-18 twist). Second, it will not feed most of the heavy wide meplat bullets. It's one of the few cases where the handgun would be better than the rifle... if you can handle the thing.

That said, Faucettb said it well. For the charging griz a 12 ga with slugs makes a heck of a lot of sense. Even then, you better be real good and real fast.
1:38 twist. :)

1:38 twist.


Oops... sorry. Fingers had a senior moment.

Thanks for the correction.

If the 44mag or 45 colt had all the power that we needed, why would we have cartridges like the 45-70, 45-90, 444 marlin, 450 marlin, 458win, 460wby.... and a host more shells.
Now, 44mags and grizzly... First, If your intentionally hunting grizzly your probably going to have a guide lookin over your shoulder with a 338win, 375 h&h, or 458. And if the grizzly charges, its his responsibility to stop it, though I'm sure he would not mind extra lead in the air. So now you have to decide if the .44mag is enough gun for you to feel comfortable hunting griz with, and again I'd suggest some beartooth cast bullets over jhp's. Some of those big metplat bullets should do quite well againt them in my opinion.


Need or lack there of has never stopped any one from wanting and going after more.

A word about meplats;
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/meplats.htm

Buffalo Bore makes heavy .44 mag loads for game up to 1000 pds., and all their .44 mag offerings zero at 100 yards, with an 8 to 10 inch drop at 150, and these are handgun ballistics, [300 gr. Speer J.F.N. (1300 fps / M.E. 1126 ft. lbs.) (Big game up to 1000 lbs.)] so you can reasonably add 250-300 fps out of a rifle barrel to this.
My Marlin .44 mag shoots the 270-305 grain bullets equally well. Yes, there are other rounds with better numbers, and 200 yards is way too far for bear, but the .44 mag out of a rifle will down a large bear inside of 150, and even better at 100 yards. I think your friend was being a bit optomistic, and while HP's do have their place in hunting game, bear, black or brown, isn't it.
If there isn't any chance of running into Brown bear (grizzly), your .44 mag will do fine; you'll just have to get closer to your game, which makes for a better hunt IMHO. If in doubt, go with a 45-70 or .444, another of Marlin's great guns.

Why don't they fall? Paco Kelly;
"life is a strange thing....and the will to live and/or fight, makes a big difference even in animals".
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/why.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/JoeRiekers-BearHunting.htm

Hope some of this helps answer your question(s).

My friend let me give it to you exactly like my father-in-law did to me abunch of years ago, when we moved to Alaska. My wife is from there. I was showing him my 44mag revolvers, and Marlin rifles, and the heavy bullets we had loaded for bear. He quietly looked the big Smith over and the rifle, and said. If I was you, I'd remove the front sights from those guns. Why I said, he said so when the bear sticks it up your back side, it won't hurt as much. My Alaskan bear guide friends to the man, swear by a 12 ga shot gun with extended magazine, stuffed with OO buck, and breneke slugs.The first bear I got close to, had a head so big, it wouldn't fit in a garbage can. The 44mag is a big cartrige compared to that bears head, it was like a 22. Sure it will kill a big bear thats been proven, but to stop a charge? Maybe if you are as fast as Bob Munda the trick shooter you might survive,:D maybe!!!

i have a marlin model 1894 .44 mag,i was told by a friend that with a 240 grain jhpt, that anything under 200 yrds will drop like a load of bricks~! well i tend to question that
I would too, because as tough as the JHP may be, it will never equal the penetration and wound cavity of a hard cast bullet with an appropriate meplat.

i know that .44mag is a big game cartridge but my question is this---im wondering if it will stop a full grown grizzly bruin at a dead charge~?::)

Even stoaked with heavy ammo, a charging grizzly has a lot of energy built up and even if the shot turns of the nervous system immediately, the bear is still coming at you, so it would not be the best short range emergency weapon. The .460 Smith, .500, .454 would be better handgun rounds, and a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 3 inch O buckshot alternating with slugs would be a better long gun. I think the key word here is "charging", as bears can outrun horses in short sprints, so there are better emergency defense choices in case of charging grizz, but the .44 mag properly loaded out of a rifle barrel would work to stop one if you are already prepared and have the rifle leveled at the bear as it begins the charge.

Yes, no, and it depends are really the answers to your original question.
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http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/SpearfishCanyon.jpg

44MAG is a very good short range revolver or carbine cartridge. It does a lot more damage than paper chart ballistic tables would suggest. But I'd avoid shots farther than 80 yards or so.

Hornady just released news that they're now building semi-pointed 44MAG ammo in their innovative Leverevoltion line. Whether this extends lethal limits much beyond 100 yards or so is unknown to me.

Charging grizzly bears? Your imagination is healthy.

TR

From the revolver, I wouldn't argue that most people need to keep their shots under a hundred yards for ordinary hunting.

But the rifles.... it's easily a 150 yard cartridge, no problem.

It should be repeated here, that the length of a rifle/ carbine barrel really adds a lot of oomph to the 44 mag cartridge. There are some really potent, heavy penetrating 44 loads being produced by Garrett and Buffalo Bore. But they can’t be used effectively in the 44 mag carbine, as Marlin hasn’t seen fit to put a fast enough rifling pitch in their carbines. In order to shoot effective, heavy loads, the Marlins must be rebarreled, and maybe adjusted to handle the extra long cartridges.
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Darrel

It should be repeated here, that the length of a rifle/ carbine barrel really adds a lot of oomph to the 44 mag cartridge. There are some really potent, heavy penetrating 44 loads being produced by Garrett and Buffalo Bore. But they can’t be used effectively in the 44 mag carbine, as Marlin hasn’t seen fit to put a fast enough rifling pitch in their carbines. In order to shoot effective, heavy loads, the Marlins must be rebarreled, and maybe adjusted to handle the extra long cartridges.
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Darrel

Funny, the 270 grain JSP (Big game up to 800 lbs.) from Buffalo Bore seems to work fine out of my Marlin .44 mag., effectively killing deer and hogs for several seasons. Buffalo Bore lists only one .44 mag load that is specified as too heavy for the Marlin twist rate to stabilize.

Using a .44 mag for big bear on purpose is a lot like using a MG midget in a demolition derby. You are gonna get hurt. You want an edge, when hunting carnivores that have 4 inch long teeth and 7 inch claws and a resolve that will hit you with 700lbs at 35mph of raw adrenalin. .375 H&H, .338 mag ect. In a levergun, .450 marlin, 45-70 and no wimpy loads.

It should be repeated here, that the length of a rifle/ carbine barrel really adds a lot of oomph to the 44 mag cartridge. There are some really potent, heavy penetrating 44 loads being produced by Garrett and Buffalo Bore. But they can’t be used effectively in the 44 mag carbine, as Marlin hasn’t seen fit to put a fast enough rifling pitch in their carbines. In order to shoot effective, heavy loads, the Marlins must be rebarreled, and maybe adjusted to handle the extra long cartridges.
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Darrel
Darrel my friend, thats not always so. A few years back, I was screwing around with a 44mag H&R rifle, using 320gr LBT'S WFNGC's, I bought from Cabela's. I tried a few in my wife's Marlin 1894P 44mag,(16 in barrel), and they cycled threw the action(that in it's self was a big suprise), and they tore the center out of a 50yd target, and shot 2 to 3 in groups at 100yds. The recoil was a real trip in her little gun though, six shots destroyed the Bushnell red dot that we had mounted on it. So before you go and have a re-barreling done, try some different sizes of heavy weights in you gun. The Garret and Buffalo bore loads are real thumpers, but they are hard to duplicate, if you can't afford them, besides a regular stiff, (SAFE) load with a heavy cast bullet 44cal in size, is a formitable penetrator without a garret type load. Also just for the thought of it, a Barnes Bullet in 44mag caliber is one heck of a penatrating bullet. My wife shot a big black bear in an angle from the front shoulder to the rear off side leg. A 200gr Barnes passed completely through the bear smashing all the bones in it's path and turning the insides to mush. We we're shocked when we opened him up, it destroyed him big time. The 220gr they make is too long and her Marlin wouldn't shoot it accurately. The 200 is a one hole bullet in her gun. Food for thought. :rolleyes:

Darrel my friend, thats not always so. A few years back, I was screwing around with a 44mag H&R rifle, using 320gr LBT'S WFNGC's, I bought from Cabela's. I tried a few in my wife's Marlin 1894P 44mag,(16 in barrel), and they cycled threw the action(that in it's self was a big suprise), and they tore the center out of a 50yd target, and shot 2 to 3 in groups at 100yds. The recoil was a real trip in her little gun though, six shots destroyed the Bushnell red dot that we had mounted on it. So before you go and have a re-barreling done, try some different sizes of heavy weights in you gun. The Garret and Buffalo bore loads are real thumpers, but they are hard to duplicate, if you can't afford them, besides a regular stiff, (SAFE) load with a heavy cast bullet 44cal in size, is a formitable penetrator without a garret type load. Also just for the thought of it, a Barnes Bullet in 44mag caliber is one heck of a penatrating bullet. My wife shot a big black bear in an angle from the front shoulder to the rear off side leg. A 200gr Barnes passed completely through the bear smashing all the bones in it's path and turning the insides to mush. We we're shocked when we opened him up, it destroyed him big time. The 220gr they make is too long and her Marlin wouldn't shoot it accurately. The 200 is a one hole bullet in her gun. Food for thought. :rolleyes:
What is the twist rate for the H&R barrel?
Is the Barnes 200 gr. .44 cal bullet a pointed or flat nose?