I have decided to start my reloading experience with an inexpensive Lee kit and just add to it by purchasing some extra parts. Now I need to know which brand of dies I should buy. Is one brand better than another? 2 vs. 3 die set? Are there certain materials (metal) that I should look for? Best companies to buy from – or ebay, craigslist, etc.? I will be starting with 22-250, then, 300 WSM. Later I’d like to reload for my .357mag/.38.

I'd go with the Lee dies as well. They are inexpensive and are a great product. I'd get the deluxe rifle die set which will include the Lee collet neck sizing die, a full length sizing die and bullet seating die. I have several sets of Lee dies as well as RCBS, Lyman, Forster and Redding. The Lee dies work as well or better than the others. I'd also look at getting Lee's auto prime if it doesn't come in the kit you are looking at.

Good luck and welcome to world of reloading!

RJ

The Lee dies are good for the money. You can get the Lee RGB dies for several rifle calibers for as low as $10.50 from Wideners when they have them. Lock stock and barrel sells them for $12.50. I would avoid auction sites for dies, I have had problems with most dies I bought there.

I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject of dies and presses, and it seems to me that while some of the other die brands are high quality (RCBS, Lyman, Redding, etc) that many reloaders go with Lee dies because not only are they good quality and less expensive than their counterparts from other companies, but it would appear that many reloaders actually prefer the way they work - especially the carbide factory crimp die.

I recently bought an inexpensive Lee press to get started too, and based on what I had read, I decided my first set of dies for .45 ACP would be the Lee Deluxe 4-die set that includes the factory crimp die. I have yet to load anything - I still need to get some of the expendable components - but I have no doubt that these dies will get me where I need to go. My instinct was to go with RCBS dies, mainly because that's what my Dad always used, but it only takes reading a few reviews where people talk about setting aside their other dies for Lee dies after finally giving them a shot, to convince me that I'll be in good shape with Lee.

There are two sides to the question of who makes the "best" conventional reloading die; the inside and the outside. Outside, they vary quite a bit on the finish but inside, the working part, they really don't vary much. Fact is, all die makers produce good equipment or they soon die in our very competitive market.

There are some small differences in features that each user will have to choose for himself but the final result - the ammo - there won't be any measurable difference, on average, between brands. Since they all work within SAAMI tolerances, including the makers of chamber reamers, the actual closeness of the fit YOU will get for your own weapon is a matter of luck, not brand. Even with a "mis-match", the differences will be too small for most reloaders to ever recognise it.

There are only two brands of dies that stand (slightly) above the others. On average, Forster and Redding's Competition/BR dies have design features that usually allow the user to produce slightly better ammo. All other brands/designs are tied for second place.

We often hear, "You get what you pay for." That's sort of true but it's also true that we can easily get LESS than what we pay for so buy the dies you want and disregard the brand. If you really like shiney dies buy shiney ones, if you don't care about shine any of them will do just as well.

Anyone who wishes to argue my evaluation had better bring a concentricity gage and list of tests that involve more than a single set of dies in a given caliber and a better argument than, "Brand X always works best for me!"

Ranger - you bring up some good points, but I do think that there are some differences in functionality between some dies, although I think those differences lie mainly in two areas:

1.) resizing
2.) Crimping

I have seen some reloaded ammo where there is a distinctive line that you can both see and feel near the base of the case, and that has got to be a product of the resizing feature of that particular die. Keeping in mind the fact that I just don't know too much on the subject, I need to ask the question: do some dies resize full length and other dies only resize most of the length of the case?

The second difference I see discussed quite often is with crimping and to that end, I have seen post after post, review after review, where people swear by the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, and they say that it works smoothly and easily to give great crimp results every time, whereas the crimp on RCBS or Redding dies sometimes don't work so smoothly and the reloader winds up with either a bad crimp, a buckled case or both. I personally have no experience with it, but I saw enough positive comments about the Lee CFCD that I decided to give that a shot.

Otherwise, how many different ways can you expand a case mouth prior to seating a bullet, and how many different ways are there to seat a bullet? There could be many - honestly, I'm learning as I go, but I think that this is like so many other subjects - things are more similar than different between brands and products, and the talking points get inflated far beyond where they really need to be. That's just an opinion though, for what it's worth.

You did well to start out with the Lee dies.Use them enough to decide that you like them.By any means,fair or foul,try out RCBS dies,or Lyman,etc.You may find that you like the new dies better then the Lee dies.
In my case,I kept the Lee crimp dies and threw out the sizing and seating dies.
There is no substitute for hands on experience.
Good luck
Frank

Frank - thanks for that advice. I need to buy another set of dies for .44 Spec/.44 Mag, and I have thought about buying a set of RCBS dies for two reasons:

1.) Virtually all of Dad's dies were RCBS, and I trust his judgement on these things
2.) It would give me firsthand experience with a direct comparison between the two brands, which would give me greater insight for my purchasing decisions for dies I'll need in the future.

There are two sides to the question of who makes the "best" conventional reloading die; the inside and the outside. . . .
Good and fair presentation on dies. You convinced me, ranger.

Good info here. I have another question.

Searching Midway's site I find two different sets. Would some explain the advantages (dis) of these? The second one (delux) is a few dollars more.

Lee Pacesetter 3-Die set comes with:
Sizer die, Factory Crimp Die, Bullet seater and roll Crimp die

Lee Delux 3-Die set comes with
Full Lenth Sizing Die, Neck sizing Collet Die, Seating Die

. . . I have seen some reloaded ammo where there is a distinctive line that you can both see and feel near the base of the case, . . . I need to ask the question: do some dies resize full length and other dies only resize most of the length of the case?

The second difference I see discussed quite often is with crimping and to that end, I have seen post after post, review after review, where people swear by the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, and they say that it works smoothly and easily to give great crimp results every time, whereas the crimp on RCBS or Redding dies sometimes don't work so smoothly and the reloader winds up with either a bad crimp, a buckled case or both. I personally have no experience with it, but I saw enough positive comments about the Lee CFCD that I decided to give that a shot.

. . .- things are more similar than different between brands and products, and the talking points get inflated far beyond where they really need to be. That's just an opinion though, for what it's worth.
trickg,
If you're talking about carbide handgun dies for straightwall cases, that ring near the base of the cartridge is put there by the carbide ring since almost all carbide dies resize the same diameter from the casemouth to the base even though the case may have a slight taper. To some, this may be cosmetically unattractive but nonetheless it gets the job done. I have some steel straightwall sizing dies that do not leave a ring at the cartridge base however the case is reduced in the casemouth area so that it will grip the bullet tightly. There is a little latitude in adjusting how much a die sizes. For bottleneck cases, backing the FL die out can result in neck sizing only. If you wish to neck size only, there is often a special neck size die available for that. For straightwall cases, backing the die out will only resize the upper portion of the case.

With regards to crimping, I agree the Lee CFCD is the easiest to use. Using conventional roll or taper crimp dies takes a bit of a learning curve to set the dies up correctly but once set up, they work almost flawlessly provided the reloader has checked for proper caselength and squareness of the casemouth. I have no idea which system is the gentlest on casemouths, perhaps there is no difference with regards to case life either way.

I share your opinion that there are more similarities between dies than differences. They all seem to work and work well. IMO, most problems tend to be traced back to operater error. Just my dos centavos on this.

MK - thanks for that post - that was really helpful!

I lament the fact that my first and best source for a teacher for all of this, my father, passed away suddenly shortly after I developed an interest in really learning to do this myself - as a kid, he always took care of it, and I just enjoyed the fruits of his efforts - the shooting! Dad passed 11 years ago, but mom didn't deal with the guns or any of the other equipment until this last February, and all of the equipment got sold off at an auction for probably nickels on the dollar.

But it is what it is - you guys are going to have to serve as a surrogate in his place! :D

Buy dies for your purposes. The Redding Competition Seater is unsurpassed for getting a rifle bullet seated axially. I have heard the Forsters work just as well, but have not had the opportunity to try one. I have, however, compared about everything else made to the Redding Competition Seater, including Redding's own standard seater, by using a dial indicator in a runout test fixture to check loaded ammunition, and the Competition Seater has always measurably done the best job.

The Lyman "M" expander style for handgun rounds does a genuinely better job of starting handgun bullets straight into the case than the standard bell and funnel flares do. The Lyman patent ran out, and Redding now also makes that superior expander form. I don't know who else does currently? Maybe someone can mention one they know of? I wound up using the toolpost grinder on my lathe to alter my Dillon drop tube expander sections to have this form.

The Lee carbide Factory Crimp Die (FCD) for straight wall handgun rounds works well. The Lee FCD for rifle is a collet crimping device, working on and entirely different principle than the pistol FCD, and has been controversial among some bullet makers. You just have to try it to see if it helps your particular loads or not?

The Redding profile crimp die is for roll-crimped revolver ammunition, only, but makes the firmest crimps of any die I've tried. Lee's FCD's crimp ring insert can be made either to be a roll or a taper crimp, so it is a more flexible design and difficult to beat for versatility. The only exception to using either of these devices is when you have a gun that needs a bullet a little wider than usual. These dies can narrow bullets if the case mouth is thick enough to press it in. I don't use one with the Lee tumble-lube bullets for that reason, unless I know the case mouth brass is thin. You just have to measure that or pull a bullet that has been through the die to see if it is affecting a diameter you think is critical for your gun?

Originally Posted by trickg http://shootersforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?p=351010#post351010)
". . . I have seen some reloaded ammo where there is a distinctive line that you can both see and feel near the base of the case, . . . I need to ask the question: do some dies resize full length and other dies only resize most of the length of the case?"

IF you are refering to pistol stuff, the "line" will be where the carbide sizing ring stops. Most pistol cases are at least slightly tapered and steel dies are made that way too so they usually make better looking ammo. Carbide pistol size dies only have a thin ring to size the full length of the case to a true cylinder and the whole body will be sized to match the normal dimensions at the mouth. Yes, that is harmful to best case life but we live with it for the convience of not having to lube all those cases!

If you are refering to bottle neck rifle cases the ring also shows where the sizer stops but the effect is largely due to normal tolerances in both chamber and die. If your chamber is large and your die is small, both are probably within tolerance but they don't match each other. Then we either live with it or take a chance on another die. Understand that individual dies from the same maker vary as much as between makers so changing die brands is no sure cure.


"The second difference I see discussed quite often is with crimping and to that end, I have seen post after post, review after review, where people swear by the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, and they say that it works smoothly and easily to give great crimp results every time, whereas the crimp on RCBS or Redding dies sometimes don't work so smoothly and the reloader winds up with either a bad crimp, a buckled case or both."

For conventional seating/crimping dies to crimp consistanly, it is neccessary to trim each case to the same length. There is no way to "adjust" a standard type die, and its crimp ring, to accommidate cases of different lengths! If we adjust a die to crimp on short cases and then run in a longer case it is likely the long case will be damaged to some degree. The only protection from that is to develop a sense of feel for how hard we are leaning on the press lever and don't over do it.

The Lee crimpers are different in that while case length certainly has some effect it is not so pronounced. Lee's tend to produce pretty good crimps with length variations of as much as 15-20 thousanths, at least for me.

Which dies are best is often a matter of personal preference. But different brands or series of dies often have different features.

Take rifle full-length resizing dies. The standard design with an expander ball mounted on a normal decapping stem is available from almost all manufacturers. Forster and RCBS Gold Medal series have a raised expander ball that engages the bottom of the neck before the top of the neck is pulled out of the neck sizing part of the die. This helps keep the case centered as the neck is being expanded, which theoretically leads to less run-out in the case neck. The X-die from RCBS uses a stepped mandrel to stop case length stretching, and eliminating the need to trim the brass after resizing. Forster and Redding bushing style dies take interchangeable bushings to set the neck diameter for a custom fit, while full length sizing the rest of the case. Dillon offers full length resizing dies for some rifle cartridges in tungsten carbide, but they still require lubrication; the carbide just makes the die last longer in high volume commercial reloading applications.

Rifle neck-sizing dies come in standard varieties that just have an overly-large case and shoulder region to avoid resizing anything but the neck diameter of a fired case. Some use interchangeable bushings to fine tune the neck diameter. The Lee Collet neck sizing die is unique in that it uses a collet to squeeze the neck down on a mandrel that determines final inside neck diameter. The collet is activated by coming into contact with the shell holder before the top of the ram's stroke.

Different styles of seating dies exist too. Standard seating dies from most manufacturers have interchangeable seating stems for different bullet nose profiles. Redding Competition series, RCBS Competition and Gold Medal series, Forster and Hornady seating dies all have a sliding alignment sleeve that aligns the bullet with the case neck before inserting the base of the bullet into the neck. The RCBS Competition and Gold Medal seaters also feature an opening in the side of the die, above the press frame, that you insert the bullet into before advancing the cartridge into the die. Some dies also have micrometer seating depth adjustments for fine-tuning the seating depth.

Pistol sizing dies mainly differ in the material they are made with, whether it be steel, which requires case lubrication, or different types of carbide inserts or TiN coatings that eliminate the need for case lubrication. Some from Redding and Dillon are flared a little more at the base for easier operation with a progressive press.

Pistol seating dies have some of the same features that rifle seating dies have. Some seating dies can crimp while seating, others cannot. Redding Competition series and Hornady seating dies are the only ones for pistol cartridges that have sliding alignment sleeves. Both offer at least optional micrometer seating depth adjustment. Some, such as Dillon and Hornady are designed to be disassembled for cleaning without affecting the die settings.

Hope this helps,

Andy

Here's another question from a noob: In regard to crimping and case length, is it as critical for handgun loads, or is this mainly a rifle load issue? I thought I read somewhere that for the most part, handgun cases will wear out before they need to be trimmed down - is that true? If that's the case, then getting a good crimp is probably less difficult for handgun. I still have a few of my Dad's reloads for .44 Mag, and he had a really nice crimp that was undoubtedly done with RCBS dies. When I order dies for .44 Mag, they'll be RCBS.

I lose track and don't have time to re-read the whole thread now, so this may duplicate something already said:

All but the highest power handgun cases shrink rather than stretch, so they don't need trimming to avoid creating the high pressure situation created by interference of the case mouth with the chamber throat, as most rifle cases do (unless resized in the RCBX X-dies). If you are unsure about your cases, mark a sampling of them and record their length as measured with a caliper, then check them again every two or three reloads to see which direction they are changing in, if at all? If they get long, trim them to SAAMI specs or a little shorter (like 0.010" to 0.015" shorter).

The idea pistol cases wear out before needing trimming is an over-generalization because of the way case life varies with the pressure you load them up to. Some magnum cases will start to split necks after only five reloads or so. I have gotten up to 50 reloads out of .45 ACP cases using light target loads, by which time they were all over 0.020" shorter than they started out.

The other reason to trim is to get uniform roll crimps in revolver cartridges from a die at just one setting. This is because a revolver recoils back against the cartridge cases, and there is nothing in front of the bullet to stop it from backing out, inertially. The crimp has to hang on to the bullet like a claw to hold it in. Even then, it can fail. A friend of mine has a titanium .45 LC snubby and says he is unable to get enough crimp in any bullet over 200 grains to stop the sharp recoil of that gun pulling the case back off the bullets. When that happens the bullets stick out of the cylinder chambers and stop the cylinder from revolving. It's a kind of inertial bullet puller that also shoots.

No other type of action has that problem. All the other repeaters use magazines that recoil back against the bullets or, in the case of a tubular magazine, makes bullets bounce against each other. All these actions tend to push bullets further into the case (another cause of high pressure) so loads for them, from a safety standpoint, only require the bullet be able to being pushed in. Jacketed bullets generally grip a case neck hard enough not to require this, though the military and many manufacturers add a ring crimp anyway. Lubricated lead bullets, however, push in very easily and need a crimp to prevent that. A simple taper crimp will create a wedge-shaped step in the bullet that blocks its rearward movement. A ring crimp in a rifle case, like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies for rifle create, can be used, too.

The first set of dies I bought for my 45-70 were Lee. Maybe I got a bad set but the full-length sizer would size them WAY to small, and the bell die wouldn't hardly do anything. So I switched to an RCBS set. I do like the Lee factory crimp die though. And my .204 dies are Lee and they work well.

If both the sizing and the expander were too small, it sounds like you got a mis-stamped set of dies. Be aware that Lee, like all the other makers, will fix any die you send back to them for free.