Word is last night Obama signed an executive order to stop all sales of reloadable 5.56 and 7.62 brass. From here out it has to be 'mutilated' and sold as scrap. Here's the read from Georgia Arms.....

http://georgia-arms.com/

"Slick Willy" Clinton did something similar with imported surplus by executive order. He also stopped all that cheap Chinese ammo by using the renewal of the Chinese most favored nation trade status. Since ammo and firearms was such a small percentage of their trade the Chinese stopped their export to get the status renewed.

That is misleading. It affects previously fired brass only. Not 223 and 308 ammunition. Brass is not ammuntion its a component. I am searching to see if this is actually true. I have yet to find it anywere else.

That is misleading. It affects previously fired brass only. Not 223 and 308 ammunition. Brass is not ammuntion its a component. I am searching to see if this is actually true. I have yet to find it anywere else.

I "Googled" it but, like you, found very little. However, it wouldn't supprise me if the article I submitted is accurate. Especially comming from a Business that sells ammo.

Still searching but so far no results. I have talked with people I know who would have better knowledge about such things but so far no comformation of the post from the Georgia arms web site.

I am skeptical since the original statement is already inaccurate. No ammuntiton has been banned or ordered destroyed at this time.
And I find it irresponsible to make such statments

It seems this only applies to military surplus brass and in no way effects commercial reloadable brass. At least from what I can read. Many of us do not use military surplus brass to begin with.

Here's all I could find on the subject. Like 5150 said the original statement is inaccurate as not all reloadable ammo is being destroyed.

http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm

There's more on Tam's blog.

http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-administration-hates-your-mother.html

Bye
Jack

Guess that means my gazillion pieces of LC81 "Match" brass will allow me to retire.......AGAIN. -----pruhdlr

Still searching but so far no results. I have talked with people I know who would have better knowledge about such things but so far no comformation of the post from the Georgia arms web site.

I am skeptical since the original statement is already inaccurate. No ammuntiton has been banned or ordered destroyed at this time.
And I find it irresponsible to make such statments

"Federal Directive to Destroy Fired Military Cases in .223 & .308

Here is the link: http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090313.htm

Here is one immediate result: http://www.georgia-arms.com/

Georgia-Arms is a major supplier of reloaded ammunition.

First. The original post as presented from Georgia arms titled Destruction of 223 and 308 ammuntion is false. It is made to sound like the mass destruction of ammunition is taking place. Once fired MILITARY brass is a component and not ammunition.

Second. In the other link provided the conversation makes false conclusions that this is the reason for emtpy shelves at the retail level. Once again these are false statments and conclusion. Once fired MILITARY brass has absolutely no affect on the retail ammuntion public.

Third. I do not dispute the thier is an order passed down to destroy under DOD supervision once fire MILITARY brass casings and I for one think its stupid an attempt at control and reduction of gun owners ability to have such items. Lets be frank. If the government wants to prevent previous government property from entering the civilian market than they have the right to do so. If its one fired MILITARY brass that is affected by this than the government must own or have possesion of it to begin with. Whats the big deal?
Now if the order were to say all once fired brass then that would truly be cause for concern.

In conclusion I feel this post per the links provided is designed to cause fear and alarm and seems to make coclusions that have no basis in fact.
The order if accurate and true only affects once fire MILITARY brass and as such has NO affect on the civilian market other than minor for a couple of companys that reload military components and then present thier product as mi-spec ammuntion that is not.

That is misleading. It affects previously fired brass only. Not 223 and 308 ammunition. Brass is not ammuntion its a component. I am searching to see if this is actually true. I have yet to find it anywere else.

that's the way I read it too....no more used DOD brass, like Lake City

Why would they mutilate it and scrap it? They get 2bucks a pound for the brass now and if they scrap it then brass is like .35 cents a pound. So they would be losing money. The only possible reason would be to limit the publics access. This would also mean throwing your tax money away because they would be refusing to get a return on an investment.

Just because you dont use military surplus brass doesnt meant that no one else does. Thats like saying I dont have an AR-15 so ban them if you want. It wont effect me.

It would be much more productive to write a state congressman or senator asking them to investigate it and in the process let them know how you feel about the Gov trying to control anything related to guns or bullets. It would let them know that we arent sheep and that we are watching.


Original post was a little misleading though.:)

Looks like Jeff Bartlett has also suspended his sales of military brass. Major bummer, this was about half the price of regular commercial production .223 once fired brass.

Looks like I'll be holding on to the 4000 pieces I have as well.

You would think they are still able to sell the scrap brass as recycle. If not that would be really dumb on the Gov's part. But then again...

This would also mean throwing your tax money away because they would be refusing to get a return on an investment.


Since when did that ever enter into any decisions made by the Government. Let me tell you a million stories very similar. One for example was the Helicopter Surplus program. They destroyed Millions of dollars of Aircraft and parts rather than let them into Public hands. If you hunt in Alaska chances are you may fly around in an old DeHavilland Beaver or Otter. Those were more than likely former U.S. Army Aircraft. Of course that was from back in the days when we still had a country.

On the way to the range today, I paid $2.12 for gas, $4.00 a box of 50 for Federal Gold Medal for my Savage .22 LR, and $4.50 for a pack of cigs. I am a teacher with 11 years in, my wife is a nurse, and we will be caught short if the current Pres has his way.

Ric

PS- The savage .22 with the heavy barrel and Accutrigger is a true monster.

I bet the CMP is next. This is sickening.

Since when did that ever enter into any decisions made by the Government. Let me tell you a million stories very similar. One for example was the Helicopter Surplus program. They destroyed Millions of dollars of Aircraft and parts rather than let them into Public hands. If you hunt in Alaska chances are you may fly around in an old DeHavilland Beaver or Otter. Those were more than likely former U.S. Army Aircraft. Of course that was from back in the days when we still had a country.

Yes, indeed. I'll add to Gatvol's post by saying I can speak from experience..... first hand.... the Government is NOT in the business of making money. Taking money? Yes. Making money? No. Once Government funding is allocated and then spent, there is no such thing as "return on investment".

Relating this to the idea that the Government should sell the brass as scrap in order to make money, well....that doesn;t make sense in Government logic. Once the brass has been purchased in the form of ammo, that's it....done. There's no such thing as selling it later in order to "make a profit" or a "retun on investment".

I'm glad they decided to go after this instead of the 3.4 billion that Merrill Lynch stole from the taxpayers last December.

3.4 billion buys a whole bunch of brass.

On the way to the range today, I paid $2.12 for gas, $4.00 a box of 50 for Federal Gold Medal for my Savage .22 LR, and $4.50 for a pack of cigs. I am a teacher with 11 years in, my wife is a nurse, and we will be caught short if the current Pres has his way.

Ric

PS- The savage .22 with the heavy barrel and Accutrigger is a true monster.

The Government, under Obama, is simply trying to price you out of your lifestyle.

Why would they mutilate it and scrap it? They get 2bucks a pound for the brass now and if they scrap it then brass is like .35 cents a pound. So they would be losing money. The only possible reason would be to limit the publics access. This would also mean throwing your tax money away because they would be refusing to get a return on an investment.

They want to sell it to RED CHINA! So they can use the brass to make ammo to use against us!! If not that, then they will make other products, that we make, and under sell us.

Whether you use military brass or not...this is a BIG, BIG deal!

This will restrict the availabilty of 308 and 5.56 reloaded ammo and push prices even higher.

You can expect the cost of 223/5.56 to go to 75 cents a round or more within the next few weeks.

Write your COngressman! This will kill jobs at the reloading companies, reduce income to the DOD and price us out our lifestyle.

As we are running away from Iraq I suspect thier will be a decrease in demand for 223/5.56 ammo from the military. If markets work the way the are supposed to then thier will be a sudden flood of surplus ammo.
We will see?

Get your crying towles out fellas, and make sure they are dry.

1966, 45 new in box with extra mags Thompson .45 cal Subs. De-Milled. Could have been sold to Police departments. It liked to have broke my heart to cut them all up for scrap. All had to be cut so that none could be re-built by welding. 1969, 30 .45 A.C.P. 1911A1's same situation. At least the 1911's were WWII issue. Could have been sold by DCM. (This was on just two Air Force Bases, just think how many more bases there are.)

Your Tax Dollars at work?

Get your crying towles out fellas, and make sure they are dry.

1966, 45 new in box with extra mags Thompson .45 cal Subs. De-Milled. Could have been sold to Police departments. It liked to have broke my heart to cut them all up for scrap. All had to be cut so that none could be re-built by welding. 1969, 30 .45 A.C.P. 1911A1's same situation. At least the 1911's were WWII issue. Could have been sold by DCM. (This was on just two Air Force Bases, just think how many more bases there are.)

Your Tax Dollars at work?


Let's dig up LBJ and hang him! For this and other atrocities.

Sorry...may have lapsed political with my attempt at humor.

I'm more of the thinking this along with the fact that commercial ammo and components are so hard to get! That the Obamanation is putting the screws to not just Gov used brass! This Government is scared ****less of the people and rightly so as they are not listening to us what so ever! He is trying to dry up our ability of take him out of office-but it will not stop whats coming! I'd bet you guy's that own these two calibers are having a real hard time finding ammo?
Gee I wonder why! Cause I know from talking to people in the ammo and component business that they are not uping the output when they have the capabity to flood the market! In fact they are cutting back! Now why would a company that could make record profits cut back on manufactoring when there is double the demand? No reason other then the Obamanation telling them too!!

I'm more of the thinking this along with the fact that commercial ammo and components are so hard to get! That the Obamanation is putting the screws to not just Gov used brass! This Government is scared ****less of the people and rightly so as they are not listening to us what so ever! He is trying to dry up our ability of take him out of office-but it will not stop whats coming! I'd bet you guy's that own these two calibers are having a real hard time finding ammo?
Gee I wonder why! Cause I know from talking to people in the ammo and component business that they are not uping the output when they have the capabity to flood the market! In fact they are cutting back! Now why would a company that could make record profits cut back on manufactoring when there is double the demand? No reason other then the Obamanation telling them too!!


I've heard that ammo companies are going 24/7 to fill the demand.

Anybody have facts on this?

I've heard from numerous sources that ammo, powder, component, and tool makers are going full bore right now trying to keep up with demand.

For what its worth all the major US ammunition companys have cut back production. The trucks are not leaving the docks as fast as they did 5 months ago. Remington for one has cut the production runs from 12 hours daily 6 to 7 days a week to 8 hours daily 3 to 4 days a week. I understand the other companys are doing the same
thing. Yes, they are producing at full capacity but thats based on a shorter scheduled work week.
This is similar to what oil and gas is doing. The price of oil is low but the gas price is rising due to predicted and now actual production cuts.
Gander Mountain has Remington 38 special ammo at $50 a box.
Rip off city. Don't get sucked into the poor ammo company mentality they are getiing exactly what they want. High profit margins at lower production cost. It's a good buisness plan and it works.
They do not care if you have enough ammo or not they are in a buisness to profit and are taking the steps needed to insure profitabilty and a future in todays market place.
Or in other words you are getting screwed form the top down by companys from wholesale to retail who are taking advantage of a politicaly scared public and who are willing to pay in large numbers any price $$ available.
Thier is ammunition out thier from S&B, Fiochi,Wolf and other overseas operations but they are limited to import rules.

Or in other words you are getting screwed form the top down by companys from wholesale to retail who are taking advantage of a politicaly scared public and who are willing to pay in large numbers any price $$ available.
Thier is ammunition out thier from S&B, Fiochi,Wolf and other overseas operations but they are limited to import rules.

I agree with your post. All these "Panic Buyers" ARE getting Screwed. We went through this when Clinton was elected and when they had the AWB proposed.

My concern is that this is more like the late 70s and into the early 80s. That's certainly precisely what it's been in the last few years with real estate and oil price inflation. Remember what happened then? Hyper-inflation on essentially everything else in the country.

I don't expect any of our congressmen to get the ban on surplus brass changed, but it's worth a try!

I received an email from a friend of mine. <!--StartFragment -->Larry Haynie, owner of Georgia Arms received this letter sent to Georgia Arms Thursday evening--effectively cancelling a contract he had to purchase 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, 7.62mm, and ..50 caliber:

Here is the website for Georgia Arms: http://georgia-arms.com/

"March 12, 2009

Larry Haynie
Georgia Arms
PO Box 238
Villa Rica, GA 30180

Re: Event 7084-6200:

Dear Larry Haynie,

Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.
If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.

Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.

Sincerely,

Government Liquidation."

<!--StartFragment -->From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD--actually from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition. Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap.

Georgia Arms is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S. With the cancellation of the contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of the ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, they will have to severely curtail the operation--laying off approximately half of Georgia Arms 60-person work force.

This move is an incredible waste of taxpayer money--reducing the worth of the brass some 80%--from casings, to shredded bulk brass. Most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

Georgia Arms was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of ..223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country. They will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country. You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future--with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find. Now, with this hit, ammunition prices will go through the roof in the next year.

<!--StartFragment -->What can you do?
Google "contact members of Congress" or simply type in ww.congress.org.
When you reach that site, type in your zip code--it will give you all your representatives, senators, and their web pages.

Sample letter to send:

<!--StartFragment -->Dear Senator/Representative (your representative):

It has come to my attention that the Department of Defense has issued a directive that all expended military brass (fired cases) will now be shredded and sold for scrap material, rather than resold by Government Liquidators LLC to the civilian market for remanufacture.

You may not be aware of it, but there is a severe shortage of ammunition available for sale to the public across the country, causing problems for shooters, hunters, and reloaders everywhere.

Now, apparently the Obama administration, realizing they cannot move against private firearms ownership since the landmark decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Washington D.C./Heller case, has made their move in another way.

By cutting off the resale of expended military ammunition to remanufacturers, they have put a stranglehold on the nation's ammunition supply.

Further, they have reduced the return to the government on expended brass by 80%. What was sold for remanufacturer at a fair return to the government, will now cost the taxpayers untold sums of money as the cost of scrap brass is far below the price per pound for expended military ammunition.

In addition, the use of remanufactured ammunition is a huge asset to law enforcement agencies across the country who buy millions of rounds of reloaded ammunition a year from these manufacturers for practice rounds.

With this market gone, law enforcement will no longer be able to purchase inexpensive reloaded ammunition, and with the continuing combat status of military forces across the Middle East, original manufacturers of new ammunition are turning out everything they can make to the government, thus exacerbating the shortage of new ammunition in both the civilian and law enforcement market.

Lastly, in these harsh economic times, does it not strike you as cold and calculating that the Obama administration has no compunction against ruining an industry that employs thousands of American citizens in the remanufacturing of sporting and military ammunition. One major resupplier, Georgia Arms, the fifth largest manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition has informed me he will have to quickly lay off half his 60-person workforce, as he has had to cancel contracts with dozens of police agencies who had contracted with him to supply them with remanufactured ..223 ammunition.

Georgia Arms has been practically put out of business by this directive that all expended military brass must be shredded. His current contracts have been canceled, and he is notifying his customers across the country he can no longer supply their ammunition needs.

Please look into this immediately. This move by the Obama administration is nothing but a back-door strike against firearms ownership in this country--if shooters can't buy ammunition, the guns are little better than steel clubs--and this is obviously the intent.

Thank you for your time and efforts in this serious attack against the Second Amendment rights of the American citizenry.

Sincerely,

(your name)
(your address)
(your email)

I was going to combine this with the other thread on the same subject, but couldn't find it. Good advice to send the letter you posted. Thanks

I found it and merged them.

Thanks Mike, I looked and looked. This getting old is the dickens.

Word is last night Obama signed an executive order to stop all sales of reloadable 5.56 and 7.62 brass. From here out it has to be 'mutilated' and sold as scrap. Here's the read from Georgia Arms.....

http://georgia-arms.com/

Original post does say BRASS and not AMMO. The link says miliyary once fired brass. Seems clear enough to me. What's misleading?

http://shootersforum.com/images/icons/icon4.gif Obama's Ban On .223 & .308 Ammo!!


Above is the title of the thread. MISLEADING!
The original poster read something from a website and came to an inaccurate conclusion.
The title of the thread is wrong and mileading

an accordingly, i have changed it...

From what I have heard... ATK just finished filling a huge order for the French government. They have on order 300,000,000 primers. They will not be making .380 Auto ammo since it takes them 8 hrs. to change out the machines in order to make it. Those machines are now turning out 1,000,000 rds./day in 9mm to keep up with demand. This is just some of the stuff I have been hearing from the ATK guys.
As a side note, got a phone call from the NRA with a recording from their VP... It went on to say something about Obama promising during the campaign to put a 500% tax on ammo, guns, etc. This is what the Washington Post says on it; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303436.html
Ya, and how many of you guys got that email about the Ammunition Accountability Act??? Did you guys know that all that garbage HAPPENED back in '07 and '08? Did you know that in the states it was proposed in it had already DIED before Obama took office?! http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/01/ammunition-accountability-act-e-mail.html I am STILL hearing about this, along with the 500% tax, from customers clearing the shelfs of ammo. I would email a nasty-gram to the NRA about spreading fear through lies, but it is just too darn good for business to do that.:D

Jim

The thread title got changed when I merged it. You can see the original title in the first post, then the changed title in VA BigBore's post, then the latest when Chris edited it.

Or just read it and not worry too much what the title says ;)

Now Jim, you wouldn't bother letting facts get in the way now would you? :D

When I was assigned to a desert area 1970 to 1982 I joined in target shooting with the LE group on a military base and noticed marines were cleaning the range scooping up 5.56mm brass they were dumping in the large steel garbage cans,I asked where they were taking it and I was told to the dump to be buried.

From another board:

Well, case closed on the brass surplus thing?

It seems an unintended administrative oversight which is currently being worked on.

What apparently happened is that the Bush administration changed demil code B praxis to require destruction of spent cases, for example artillery casings. Small caliber (0.5 and under) was not affected because it was in demil code E.

The rest is sketchier but afaict the Bush admin was not aware that the military had a program to reassign demil codes after some of the demil debacles (Iran F-14's, etc) and that small caliber spent casings were already scheduled to be put in the B category. So, when that happened and they became B, they suddenly had to be mutilated (rendered scrap).

The DLA, DRMS etc are reportedly working to rectify it by a waiver which previously existed for this type of E class items but did not carry over when the change was made.

And:

That's the current rumor, and I certainly hope it pans out. The NRA has their people working directly with the DOD to come to a resolution, but thus far there haven't been any solid facts presented by anyone with authority to comment officially.

The way I see it, we paid for the stuff, we should get it, F14s included!

Fortunately this nonsense has been rescinded per this latest post on the Georgia Arms site. http://georgia-arms.com/

Jeff Bartlett has his brass back up for sale, sold out on 5.56 though.

http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA_mcunningham.pdf

Just found this hope it supports the post above.
Other metals on the site need to be mutilated but apparently not small arms brass.
Lets all hope so

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2272021&convertTo=USD

And in no small part we can and should thank United States Senators Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Jon Tester (D-Mont.) for their support and efforts in getting this put to rest. A nice note to each of their offices would go along way..... When the poop really hit the fan, all the supposedly "pro gun" politicos were as silent as can be with the exception of these two gentlemen. They've proved their metal in the past and continue to do so. My hat is off to them.:D

I've provided a link to the NRA site that explains the whole thing if any one is interested.

www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=12244

Fortunately this nonsense has been rescinded per this latest post on the Georgia Arms site. http://georgia-arms.com/

Yes. Was listen to conspiracy radio late last night (Coast to Coast AM), and George Noory and another guest were discussing the matter and remarked that the problem had been corrected some time on Tuesday. Fortunately, a short-lived issue.

With that happy ending to the controversy, can't see the need to prolong this thread.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Thread locked.