I have one of each and I must say, they are extremely cool carbines. At first I thought they were really ugly but after a while they look rather nice. Anyone have any thoughts on these milsurp rifles?

I own one. Used the 200 gr sp to take several whitetail in my day. Very accurate piece.

I have one of each and I must say, they are extremely cool carbines. At first I thought they were really ugly but after a while they look rather nice. Anyone have any thoughts on these milsurp rifles?
I have a 44. I have not got it to shoot decent groups yet. The barrel is in pretty rough shape. It is a project in progress I guess.

I have two Mosins. One is the older octagonal reciever M-91 and the other is a round reciever. I've had the Russian made octagonal for about ten years. I got it "new" still in creosote from a Russian arsenal via Wall-Mart in 1994. It's been amazingly accurate for the entire time I've hunted with it. I've added a black sporter stock from ATI, along with a scope mount / bolt handle relocator kit.
The "newer" Mosin is staying original for now, as I've managed an average of a 6" shot grouping at 150 yards with the open sights.
Just check your bolt's head spacing before running ammo through it. Both of mine pass (bolt closes easilly) the "GO" guage, and fail (bolt binds up on guage before closing) the "NO-GO" guage. That means I can still handload rounds for them, although I consistantly purchase non reloadable WOLF ammo.
I've got about three hundred rounds fired through my older gun, and it's still as accurate as day one.

See my post, "Did I mention I like Mosin Nagants?" down the board.

I found a used Model 1944 Russian carbine for sale cheap and picked it up. They are a neat little rifle and shoots very well. I reload for this caliber and plan to take it deer hunting this year. All the best...
Gil

I am a dealer, and have sold a lot of these. I make it a point to shoot every used gun I have before I sell it, just to make sure it works. Mostly, Mosin-Nagants will group well if the bore looks good, even if there is some erosion in the throat. I found that, on most of the M44's, they tend to shoot to the left as much as 8" at 50 yards.

I found that if I removed the side-folding bayonet, they would shoot right down the middle. I just take a screwdriver with me to the range and remove it right on the bench. I replace it when I'm done. Otherwise, I'm afraid I would lose the bayonet.

I removed the bayonet lugs from one. There is a sleeve pinned onto the end of the barrel that includes the front sight base and the bayonet lugs. I removed it, sawed off the bayonet lugs and turned down the stubs to match. I cold blued the spot where the lugs had been. It looked good. Unfortunately, I took it with me to a gun show, and it sold immediately.

Since then, I got an excellent M38, which is about like the M44 without a bayonet, except it is original.

Try reloading with 124 gr bullets for the 7.62x39 if you want less recoil in these light carbines. I got some Winchester bullets in bulk and get excellent accuracy with them. They are much more pleasant to shoot. Bullets are cheap, too.

I have an "arsenal refinished" Izvesk(?) M44, which I got for $105 from a gent in NY state. Took off the bayonet and mounted a Burris 2.75x Scout Scope using an S&K Instamount. Shoots 3" at 100 yards with Wolf 200 gr. FMJ's or SP's. Hope to work up some more accurate handloads. One thing that I don't like is the safety. Other than that, I like the rifle fine, especially at that price.

don't use the safety and extend the bayonet for firing instead of removal. If you are in a situation where the safety must be used it is probably more dangerous to put it on and take it off than not use it. At the range just don't rack one in until firing and load one at a time if you will be stopping during firing.

Have you taken the bolt apart on these things. Like most guns it is an engineering marvel.

I have a Polish M44 carbine, 1952 I think. I've used it to shoot pigs and it certainly works for that. If you miss at close range, the balst and fireball will put them down. I don't use the safety when hunting, just keep the chamber empty and ram one in when needed.

Spoken like a true Mosine user, Fenring. Mine is on its way to being my first firelapping project and then I will employee Marshall to supply the correct bullets. Now if I can just get a cheep source of brass I will be in buisness. I would love to hear you bullet performance on pigs.

I have an IZZY M38 from "42... its in really nice shape, but I have yet to fire it.
:(

I've got several Mosins, 91/30,38,44 all in LN condition.Except my favorite,which is a M39 with a Belgium barrel, I'll post some pics. later ,loaned my Camera out today ??..
Over the years i've own lotz of 'em and I really like'em.

Buckeye

Here's the pic I said I'd post!!!!:D

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL326/682422/5659534/74472329.jpg

Thats as nice as they come !!
Thanks for the look see.

Heres a Pic. of my Mosins,
M39 Finn. (Belgium Barrel)
91/31
M44 (it arrived so new the wood was not finished )odd
M38

http://onfinite.com/libraries/184394/e56.jpg

...buying a Mosin-Nagant

I've never <i>owned</i> a "firearm" before. I'm experienced with rifles, and own several high-quality air rifles. I just want to know if a Mosin is a good choice for target shooting and maybe varmint-control. (yes, I realize 7.62x54R mm may be a little overkill for varmint control, but my 700fps .22 pellets aren't getting through armadillo hide and so I think .22 rimfires would be pointless as well. Plus, I can't reach coyotes at 150 yards and still deliver enough power to drive them off, though I imagine a Mosin might kill them just a little bit)

The most important thing to me is accuracy (even though I choose to shoot iron-sight) What kind of accuracy can I expect from a refinished mosin mfg. in thet late '40s, early '50s? My main goal is accurate (and consistent) target shooting between 100-200 yrds.

So, here are the stupid questions:

- Do I need a permit if it's military hardware? (live in U.S.)

- What kind of accuracy can I expect coming from a Mosin in the $150-$250 price range?

- What kind of range will it have? (will I have to worry about killing somebody several miles away)

- If I go deer hunting with my cousin and his SKS along with a Mosin-Nagant, will I get arrested?

- Is there a lot of maitainence involved with one of these?

- How does the 54R power/accuracy compare to:
- 7.62 x 51 NATO (.308)
- 7.62 x 39 mm
- .30-06
- .303
- .300 Mag.
- .243
- 5.56 NATO (.223)
(since I am also considering rifles in these calibers)

- Will I be embarassed if I go hunting with my friends and their scoped .243 and .30-06 Remingtons and Winchesters if I am toting surplus Eastern Bloc hardware?

I realize this is a lot to answer, but it is all very important to me. Please forgive me ignorance.

I'll stay away from American laws, as I have enough trouble figuring out Canadian law. Accuracy is a crap shoot with old military rifles. It might be excellent, better than than average new Remington or Winchester, or absolutely dreadful. No more maintenance than a modern bolt action, unless something needs fixing.

Maximum range, about 2 1/2 miles at a 33° firing angle. Figure a muzzle velocity of 2600 fps and a ballistic coefficient of 0.4.
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/maxdist/maxdist.html

Power, in the .303 or .308 range. Will you be embarrassed? Not if you get that big buck and they don't connect.

Bye
Jack

tk,

The hunting ammo is hard to come by in my area. No FMJ most places for hunting and that is what the surplus stuff is. If you have 250 to spend you can do a lot better for a hunting rifle than the heavy old Mosine.

I have several rifles in several calibers but you would be hard pressed to find a better rifle for your needs than an old lever gun.

ChiefRID,
Try Graf's. They have Hornady brass in 7.62x54R at a reasonable price, I believe it was $27.00 per 100.

TK, A 38 would be your best bet ,carbine and the power of a .308. And soft point ammo is cheap and good ,you'll have to order it thru, Cheaper than dirt, or Sportsmans Guide,
But you could pick up a Mossberg bolt gun at Wally World for $244.00 bucks ethier in 270win. or 30-06.There great rifles & have ER Shaw barrels.Now is a good time to hit your neighborhood gun stores for trade -ins ,I picked up a old Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. for $160.00 & gettin ready to pick-up a 336 in 30/30 for $175.00 LNC,
The safties aren't much on those Mosins,hard to work.

Good luck
Buckeye

Hey MikeJ,

That is awesome. I will have to look into that right away. It is about time. That will last me a long time and I can fire lap the Mosine and try to shoot some of Marshall's bullets in it. That would be great too. I might get this old thing shooting yet.

ChiefRID,
Try Graf's. They have Hornady brass in 7.62x54R at a reasonable price, I believe it was $27.00 per 100.

It was listed as Graf Brass not Hornady. I got a 100 to see. From what I understand the Lapua has a primer pocket problem but I was getting where I was going to try it anyway if this is what it ends up being.

Does anyone know if Graf makes there own brass?

The prices there seem to be competitive. this will be my first order from there. I always order all my handlosding stuff from Midway. No minimum order at Graf's so they could get some of my buisness in the future if this works out.

I'd be willing to part with my 38....
pm me with for the info!

Chris~

Old bolt guns are just old bolt guns. Doesn't matter if they were military guns, same laws apply. Just your basic restrictions on buying / owning guns, nothing more, nothing less. We don't disallow or restrict ownership of 'military' firearms vs. 'civillian' firearms, like some countries do. Current military firearms are mostly capable of full-auto, but full-auto has been tightly regulated since 1934, and a Mosin certainly doesn't qualify for that.

Like Jack said, a total crapshoot with accuracy. Power about like .308, .30-40 Krag, .303 Brit, and a bunch of similar rounds. Certainly enough for Bambi and dangerous a long way aways. A .22 works fine on armadillos, by the way. Just shoot once; they often don't know they are dead for a while. 1 round works fine.

The biggest problems with old military guns are they are 1.) heavy, 2.) not suitable for scoping, if you want that, 3.) often have crappy sights (exception for the '96 Swedes which have very good sights for military guns), 4.) May not shoot anywhere near the sights (often shoot very high), 5.) may not find soft-point ammo easily, FMJ ammo usually not being ideal for most hunting, and 6.) some of the cheap surplus amo floating around is corrosive-primed, which means the bore will rust if you don't know how to properly clean it.

Cheap, rugged, and certainly they can bring home the venison, if you like.

Don't know what your friends are like, but mine quit snickering when they saw some groups of out my old junker military rifles. I've got a couple that will shoot right with a buddy's scoped .270. Anyway, gonna hunt some with old mausers this year, if things work out. A bit of a handicap compared to a scoped .30-06 but so what, we have deer everwhere in Texas this year; no shortage.

You might be better off, honestly, with a used .30-30 lever gun. Easy to find in most parts of the country, cheap, and ammo is everywhere.

ChiefRID,
I'm pretty sure that Hornady makes the brass for Graf's. I bought some and it looks pretty good, I just haven't had time to work up any loads. I used to get alot of my handloading supplies from Midway as well, but I've started using Graf's and Natchez Shooters Supply more often. Service and price on both counts.

Do I need a permit if it's military hardware? (live in U.S.)

No. As pointed out, it is just another bolt action rifle

- What kind of accuracy can I expect coming from a Mosin in the $150-$250 price range?

Depends on the rifle. Stay away from the carbines, like the M38 and M44. Buy a Finnish M39. They are the most accurate in the MN family, as far as I am concerned.

What kind of range will it have? (will I have to worry about killing somebody several miles away

Yes, just like any other centerfire rifle. Be careful of your backstop!

If I go deer hunting with my cousin and his SKS along with a Mosin-Nagant, will I get arrested?

Only if you do something stupid and illegal. The rifle is legal to hunt with where ever rifles are legal.

Is there a lot of maitainence involved with one of these?

Just normal cleaning. be sure to clean the bore properly if you ever use surplus ammunition thru it. All surplus 7.62x54 available is corrosively primed, as far as I know. If you don't know how to clean after corosively primed ammunition, ask!

- How does the 54R power/accuracy compare to:
- 7.62 x 51 NATO (.308)
- 7.62 x 39 mm
- .30-06
- .303
- .300 Mag.
- .243
- 5.56 NATO (.223)
(since I am also considering rifles in these calibers)

7.62x54R compares to the .30/06 and .308. Pretty much match them for velocity up to 150 grain bullets, falls a bit behind with heavier bullets. beats all the others for energy except the .300.

Will I be embarassed if I go hunting with my friends and their scoped .243 and .30-06 Remingtons and Winchesters if I am toting surplus Eastern Bloc hardware?

Depends. How easily do you embaress? I use a M91/30 "sniper" that I built as a bad weather hunting rifle. Doesn't bother me a bit. Of course, everybody I hunt with knows I'm a bit odd.

Ammunition isn't a problem, but it can't be bought everywhere like the .30/30 and other popular cartridges. For brass, try Lapua, about $45/100. Don't know how it compares to Graf/Hornady, but Lapua brass is comparable to Norma, and much cheaper.

I've got a little story,Bout 20 some years ago ,A older friend came to my home to show me his new deer rifle ,nice Remington BDL 243, Had a High $ scope. We stepped in the back yard ,where I had a shootin range (a large feild with a Mtn. as a back stop)wished I didn't sell out ! Any how at bout 125 yds we set up a Treated 6X6, which was bout 2ft. high with a cinder block behind it. He was useing some lighter bullets for higher Vel. He put a tight group on the 6X6,useing a shootin bench with careful aim,and the I brought out my M39 loaded with FMJ bullets. He laughed at my old Mosin and said, I should get closer . I quickly shouldered the M39 and took a fast aim & quickly fired ,the Cinder block totally exploded and the 6x6 fell over.
He quitely got into his car and left.

I took several wild dogs with that rifle, some pretty remarkable shots,at the time soft point ammo was hard to find and $$ ,so I didn't do any deer huntin with it.