I have been looking at getting a 30-06 for the reason of light brush that i do not feel comfortable shooting a 243 through as good of a caliber as it is i dont think it would fare well when shooting in light brush so i want a 30-06 because it can still shoot through brush using semi round nose bullets but you can still switch to a spire point for the longer range and more open shots so if anybody knows abought how a 30-06 semi round nose fairs in brush please help i am in need of advice.


thanks for anyone who can help

There is no such thing as a brush buster bullet. The myth has a foundation but the story is too long for this forum. choose the rifle that you handle best in cramped quarters AND that you can shoot accurately. Install a good quality scope of LOW power and thread your shots between the branches. Practice, practice, practice. Pepe Ray

Pepe is right - no bullet will buck brush any better than another. Just some fast stepping bullets tend to blow up when hitting a limb while the slower ones will continue on, but not in the pointed direction.

That aside, the 180 grain roundnose bullet is a time proven game getter at close ranges. It was designed for that purpose, i.e, to open up at moderate velocities and penetrate well. You can't go wrong selecting this cartridge combination for thick woods or close shooting conditions.

Hi Hunter,
Aside from reading extensively about big bullets vs. smalll ones penetrating brush and hitting, I have done some rather unscientific testing of my own using dried willow brush piled loosely enough to see a target 10 yards beyond. To make a long story short, slow, long, heavy bullets are somewhat better than fast small diameter bullets, however none that I shot would reliably hit my ten yard target. One of the best was a cast 420 grain #2 alloy bullet from my pet Guide Gun, but even that one keyholed and missed more often than not.
Just for example, 5 rounds out of a 270 Gibbs wth 140 grain Failsafes didn't even hit the target.
My advise - do your level best to shoot between the branches, cause you can't depend on them cutting wood and killing deer.

Regards,
Bryan.

LV2HUNT, you'll be more successful if you limit your shots to situations where the animal is just barely screened by brush or if it's not very deep in any shrubs, etc.

If you're not shooting at much distance, an alternative 30 caliber is a 30-30 with heavy cast 180gr round/flat nose bullets. The handloaded, improved version of the 30-30 can deliever these bullets at over 2500fps - plenty fast enough for any deer you might encounter... and easily intruding into 30-06 performance territory. You can still shoot standard 30-30s in the re-chambered rifle if you want...

A Marlin 336, lever action rifle would be handy in these dense cover situations. See:

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/3030Again.htm

GOOD LUCK!

Hard to beat an '06......but, the guys are right. In fact, one of the professionals that wrote for Guns & Ammo (sorry, i don't remember which one) addressed this by saying that he was shooting at a dik-dik at about 40 yards for camp meat with a .375 H&H. He fired, and watched dumbfounded as it walked away. Between he and the animal, he found a branch just about 1/4" in diameter hanging where the bullet had hit & been deflected enough to miss. I missed a deer at about 75 yards recently when a 300 gr bullet from my .44 hit a branch about the same size.

First pig I ever shot, it was very close range and the pig ran through some brush (weeds, really) that I did not see. Just a few feet in front of the pig, but turned the bullet sideways - you could tell by the oval-shaped entrance hole. Hole through the rib tissue was about a half inch wide and maybe in inch and a quarter long.

Not a problem, Nosler Partitions apparently work going forwards OR backwards... LOL... a good lesson, though. The pig could not have been more than just a few feet beyond the weeds, as I was pretty close to begin with.

.30-06 / 165gr. Partition / 2800fps at the muzzle.

thanks for the advice.I guess my question wasnt clear (my fault) i wasnt looking for a gun to shoot through heavy cover i just meant light brush.my reasoning is that i was deer hunting this season with my 243 and saw a respectable 8 point step out at abought 30 yards the way the buck went i didnt feel i could make a good shot on the deer so i justlet him walk better to let him walk then to mortally wound the animal and cause it to suffer.so i was looking to get something that could be less affected by light cover in close range.i have looked at 30-30's but from my stand i still need the long range accuracy to go with it.i would be shooting at abought 200 yards in some situations and dont feel comfterbale with a 30-30 at that distance.In all my experiences i have seen bad things happen when people try to streach the 30-30 too far and end up with a bad shot.


thanks for all the advice

I admire how you've thought this through, but the simple truth of the matter is that unless the brush is very close to the animal, no bullet can be expected to go through it without changing course.

I personally wouldn't try it, unless the deer was literally standing in the middle of a bush, and that was the only obstacle in the way.

By the way I have shot coyotes and hogs through prickly pear cactus.... but again, literally just a few feet in front of the animal. Cactus are pretty soft too, not much texture. Also the bullets were hitting the cactus square and not just on the edge. Left a bunch of needles in the hide of one hog....

I think that the best answer is a good-quality scope that lets you pick your shot through the obstacles.

If you're a stand hunter, you should go out in the preseason and cut shooting lanes.

LV,

We have had a hard time the last three years on deer for the very reason you are talking about. The three of us shoot 30 or 7mm weapons and the deer have not been very visible during the day. Our law here for shooting time is one hour after official sunset and believe me, with no moon or clloud cover that is dark. We hunt heavy cover and try to cut lanes where we can but the deer are very astute to this.

My point is, the guys are missing and I think I know why. The little stuff disappears in the scope as you loose light. It disappears anyway in some scopes with light. A bullet going 2500 + fps does not have to hit much of anything to be wildly deflected no matter shat the design of the bullet.

I have not convinced my buddies of this but I am. These guys are x-military and old time hunters and excellent marksman but the added preasure of few deer sightings and our constant hazing of each other has caused us to take shots in low light and the misses that have never happened before are happening now and it is the bullet hitting the smallest of stuff on the way downrange. That's my story and I am sticking to it!!

Aside from being issued an M1, then a M14 I've never owned a 30 caliber, until recently and got two of them now.
I'm mainly a cast bullet shooter and I'm tinkering with a 208 grain cast bullet built to my design with the advice of the mold maker, in my Winchester 95.
The buckhorn site on the 95 are awful, so the only thing I know for sure is the cartridge goes off, the bullet arrives down range, hits the paper around and about.
I'll have a better idea once I get the reciever site installed.
I remember reading that long slower bullets have a better chance of sliding thru the brush. I don't hunt any more, but I enjoy shooting and tinkering.
I wonder if a flat nose has any effect on brush busting ability. Instead of slideing over the branch the flat nose would cut it off, like a wadcutter?
Jim

Have done the tests (pretty much duplicating the magazine articles) and there really isn't a bullet that won't be deflected by brush...most of them show tipping or even sideways bullet impacts.

Which got me to wondering...how did the brush-bucking myth get started? Have to assume that at least some of the old timers knew something about the subject and weren't just mouthing off. So set up some wet lap to catch the deflected/unstable bullets.

Worst case impacts (full profile) did show that big bullets worked better than small ones when unstable....kind of makes sense, as a tumbling 405gr. 45-70 bullet at 1350fps isn't as likey to go to sharpnel as a tumbling 100gr. 6mm bullet at 2900fps.

Just an opinion from limited tests:
1. All bullets are defelcted in unpredictable ways with partial contact with brush.
2. A dead center hit on a twig deflects less, but usally (a) rupturs the jacket on most bullets (b) usually unstablizes the bullet (tumbles).
3. The combination of large diameter, heavy weight, low vel. seems to offer the best performance when striking while unbalanced.
4. Round ball (if big) is too "stupid" to tumble (can't tumble if there is no front or rear of a bullet), but they deflect.

Only conclusions I can come up with are that the "bush buster" may refer to the bullet's effects after striking brush, and not their ability to defeat brush...they all get deflected, they all can tumble (except a ball), but the big slow ones still penetrate decently even when tumbling.

Ribbonstone -

I agree completly with your findings.

Guess we've beat this horse to death, but the fact remains - no bullet will maintain a true course after encountering an object between the firearm and the target. If that object is fairly near the target then the chances of a hit somewhere near the point of aim are greater.

It is indeed difficult to always have an absolute clear shot at the intended game. If in doubt, please don't squeeze the trigger. There's always another time.

Favorite brushbuster is a Remington 7400 30-06 semi-auto.

I remember an article where a gun writter tried a similar experiment some time ago when "brush busters" were all the rage. He set up a frame with 1/4" wooden dowels ahead of a target. The dowels were set so that a bullet would hit at least 2 or more dowels to pass through.

He shot all the noted "brush busters" (i.e. 45-70, 375 Win. 35 Rem., 220 grain 30-06, etc.) through it. - None passed the test. He then stepped up to 375 H&H - got one key holed hit. Finally, he tried a 458 Win. with solids and got reliable hits. Conclusion = short of an elephant gun with solids nothing worked! Interesting how this topic comes around.

Since there is no bullet, short of elephant gun size 458, that is good for "Brush Busting", I took a different approach which is to not hit the brush in the first place.

Most folks sight their guns in 2" to 3" high at 100Yds so that they can hold dead on out to their maximum point blank range. While this is good in that you don't have to remember bullet drop, being up to 2"-3" high at points along your bullet trajectory is certainly a disadvantage when you are trying to thread a bullet through brush.

My solution was to buy a Burris 3-9X40 with a Ballistic Plex reticle. (Very similar to the Leupold Boon & Crocked Reticle) This reticle allows you to sight in "Dead-On" at 100Yds and then use the reticle aim points for shots at 200Yds, 300Yds, etc.

By sighting in dead on at 100Yds, I'm less than 1" off point of aim (low) from 15Yds out to 150Yds and less than 1/2" off point of aim from 35Yds to 130Yds. This covers the vast majority of my shots and gives me the ability to "thread the needle" if and when I need to.

Like I said, the best way to "Bust Brush" is to not hit the brush in the first place. Precise bullet placement is the key and the Ballistic Plex reticle sure helps!

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