i have a 700bdl in 7mm ultra mag with a 26" blued barrel. i'm going to put on a 30" douglas blued flutted barrel. right now i'm loading 140gr in both barnes coated and silver ballisti tip, 93.5grs of h1000. i'm not showing any signs of over pressure with these loads. my question is can i increase the load do to a longer barrel, and what bullet and weight would be best with this barrel. this will be a deer load with an occasional bear. is the cartarucio vld in 156 & 176gr a good choice? or something like 168gr hpbt from sierra? any loads would be greatly appreciated.

No you would not increase the load just because you had a longer barrel. Chamber pressure would not vary with any reasonable barrel length (anything over a few inches).

You would, however, need to work up again for any new barrel, as it may show a slightly different pressure for a given load. This would be true with any cartridge and gun.

I would not use the Sierra bullet for hunting. It's a match bullet and there is no way to predict terminal performance. For the high velocities that your gun is capable of, use a premium bullet (X, Failsafe, Partition, Swift A-Frame, etc.). If the coated Barnes bullet is working for you, stick with that.

I doubt if the VLD bullet you mentioned is intended for hunting, either. Contact the bullet manufacturer....

Good luck.

At the risk of being the devil's advocate , what gained performance on said deer or bear will be accomplished with the 30" barrel that isn't with the 26" ? A 7mm bullet coming out of most standard and magnum chamberings with 22" -24" barrels will do the "deed" on just about any deer or bear (assuming black bear?) . Just curious.

444fitch

i was told i would gain 150-200fps. i'm one of those speed lovers. thats all. but i do want the most accurate load i can shoot, and i don't have any loading or shooting experience with anything over 140gr. would i get more down range velocity with say a 160-180gr bullet?

30" barrel? I probably have a pair of snow skis that are shorter than that rifle.

How heavy is it? 15-20lbs?

half that. it weighs around 9lbs now. it has a 26" barrel now so i'm only adding 4" of steel. plus i"m going to flute it. it"ll probably weigh around 10lbs, scope, bi-pod, sling. i hope you're skiis are longer than that. that would make for a slow trip down the mountain.

With a cartridge such as your 7mm RUM, you should see a very good gain in velocity over a 24 or 26" barrel. With the heavier bullets, provided they have a high BC, you will get more downrange velocity, by a long shot, than the 140gr bullets. I'm unaware of any VLD bullets that are suitable for hunting, but that's not to say there aren't any available. I've got a set of Corbin VLD Rebated Boat tail dies in 7mm that I'll be playing with after I get my pistol bullets where I want them. The bottom line about bullets is that it would be irresponsible to use target bullets on game, expecially at the velocities you are/will be achieveing.

If you want to shoot heavy VLD bullets, make sure you take that into account when you are specifying the twist rate of your new barrel. You'll likely have to make a compromise that will not allow you to drive 140gr bullets at full steam with the twist rate required for the longer bullets.

A 30" barrelled rifle, unless it was a single shot, would make for an awful lot of rifle.

A max load is a max load, it has little to do with the barrel length. The extra velocity comes from the additional time the expanding gas from the burning powder has to work on the bullet in the longer barrel. With a tremendously overbore cartridge, such as the 7mm RUM, you should see very good gains in velocity in the long tube.

Bob,
I have a 7mm RUM and it will do anything you want with it's 26" barrel. I don't know how far out you are aiming at, but with a 30" barrel and max loads, it's going to hurt after awhile.
You need to stick with some tough bullets that can take the velocitys you want. Also know that at normal hunting ranges (100 - 200 yards), it is possible that such bullets going so fast, may not have time to expand. It could act like a solid slug and pass through. I used a 140gr Partition sitting on top of 90gr of "Retumbo" against a Blacktail deer standing 150 yards away. The exit wound was not as big as I was expecting.
I have used the 175gr Partation and Barnes X bullets on tougher game with very good results.

Bob Kearney,
It sounds like you are on your way to a real long range shooter. Good for you. You will notice in little time this forum is not the long range hunting place to be.
You will be discouraged from shooting anything longer than 250-300 yards.
You should go to www.longrangehunting.com they can help with any questions you have on long range, equipment, bullets, and so forth.
I will be using sierra Match kings, 220 gns. for my deer and black bear hunting. I have seen enough pictures from real hunting photos. Go to the long rang hunting site, then do a search for smk kill photos, you may have to do a few different searches to word it just right. but the photos are there. No deniability, they work and are accurate. also the heavy Hornady A-Max is also a very solid performer in the 7mm anything.

John

Bob,
I have a 7mm RUM and it will do anything you want with it's 26" barrel. I don't know how far out you are aiming at, but with a 30" barrel and max loads, it's going to hurt after awhile.
You need to stick with some tough bullets that can take the velocitys you want. Also know that at normal hunting ranges (100 - 200 yards), it is possible that such bullets going so fast, may not have time to expand. It could act like a solid slug and pass through. I used a 140gr Partition sitting on top of 90gr of "Retumbo" against a Blacktail deer standing 150 yards away. The exit wound was not as big as I was expecting.
I have used the 175gr Partation and Barnes X bullets on tougher game with very good results.

Partitions don't generally leave much of an exit hole, because the front core tends to break apart and the jacket folds back to the partition. Expanded, it isn't normally as wide as a conventional jacketed bullet that mushrooms, which is why it will penetrate deeper and bust through bones.

The faster you drive a bullet, the more vigorously it will expand.... until it just shatters.

If you're trying to build a long-range rifle , you better use a long-range Bullets, 160 gr. or heavier. The best Bullets would be the Badger V. L. D. 180 gr. match Bullet but to stabilize it you would have to have a 1 in 8 twist otherwise a Hornady 162 gr. A-max or Sierra 168 gr. match kings both of these can be stabilized with a 1 in 9 twist all three of these Bullets when hitting a Deer or a bear will act like a heavy varmint bullet the only problem with hunting with match Bullets they have a habit of disintegrating inside the game and not leaving an exit hole that leaves blood trails but this is also a good thing because nothing knocks down game harder than a match bullet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I was talking to one of the guys at Hornady, he told me that the 162 gr. A-max was 3 % antimony. The match kings as pure lead

The faster you drive a bullet, the more vigorously it will expand.... until it just shatters.

Sorry MikeG, but I have to agree and disagree with you on this one. Yes you correct on how a partition works, but wrong on how a bullet like this works in regards to the velocities of something like a RUM and small prey close up. A tough bullet like this needs a certain amount of mass and density (no pun intended) to work. If you shoot a partition through a paper target, it will not expand. Nothing to work against. Likewise, in a small deer that is close up (for a RUM that does not have to very close) the bullet may not have TIME to expand to it's full size with the amount of mass it has to work with.
I say this because I have seen a number of Whitetails shot with 30-06's using 150gr partitions from 50 to 120 yards. The exit wounds were about 3 fingers in width and circular. On my Blacktail, I used a 7mm RUM handload consisting of a 140gr partition. At 150 yards the exit wound was 1and 1/2 fingers wide and in a jagged line. Now maybe that particular bullet was sub-par, I don't know. But I have to think that maybe such fast moving bullets on thin skinned animals at "normal" hunting ranges might not work.

You are correct that with less 'resistance' the bullet will expand less - that would be true with any bullet.

You are also correct that some bullets will expand faster on 'thin' targets than others (at the same velocity). No argument there.

Almost all expanding jacketed bullets have a 'bubble' in the wound channel (as if viewed in a cross-section) where the bullet creates the maximum diameter wound channel, then the wound channel tapers off as the bullet slows down. If I understand your post correctly, then you are concerned that the 'bubble' is happening too late to suit your purposes in the example you give above, right?

Not to split hairs - but have you make the same shot, at the same size animal, with the same bullet, at a much LOWER impact velocity - and found the wound channel more to your liking?

I really do suspect that the difference in the results from your RUM is that the front core expanded faster than in the example with the .30-06, and therefore was down to the smaller part of the wound channel by the time it exited. You're thinking that it's just getting started to expand by the time it exits, and I think that it was all done expanding and on the 'small' side of the wound channel.

The only way to know for sure whether your 7mm Partition failed to expand as much as the .30 Partitions would have been to compare the tissue destruction (wound channel) at all points along it's path through the animal. Or set up some sort of test media like wet paper.

What I have seen when I gut out a pig that's been shot with a partition is the following: Small entrance hole, BIG mess on the inside, and small exit hole.

Further - one shot in particular was really revealing on how the Partition works. Pig, broadside through the ribs, so not much resistance. Doesn't look like much damage inside, because it's hard to measure wound channels in mushy lung tissue. BUT - the inside of the rib cage on the 'out' hole was peppered with little bits of lead. Conclusion - the front core broke apart as expected, and the little pieces of lead were creating secondary wound channels through the lungs. I sure wish I had taken a picture of the ribs where the bullet exited.

This was not a big pig either, maybe 100lbs, a bit more resistance than a deer of the same size, but not much. So - it was about an inch of bone/tissue, then lungs which have hardly any resistance, then out. If it hadn't been for the tell-tale pattern of 'shot' around the exit hole, there would not be a lot of indication as to what happened.

I'll grant you that I haven't made the same shot at a higher or lower velocity to check against, as I suggested you do. And the 7mm version of the bullet may well be tougher, I don't know. How about the following: Set up about 4 or 5 inches of wet newsprint, and then shoot through it at high velocity in your RUM, and see what sort of hole it makes? Would be in interesting experiment.

Unfortunately I don't have the option of driving a Partition over 3,000fps to make any comparison.

I would be interested to hear about what sort of wound channel you got on the deer shot with your 7mm RUM. Over to you.

I hope this works, I am going to try to post a picture from another site, this is a sierra matchking kill photo.this is by a 300 tomohawk, ( 300 rum improved) 240gn sierra match king, 130 yards.

I tried to copy and paste a photo from another website, it did not work.

The 30-06 loaded with 150 and 160 grain Nosler Partitions was my main hunting load for years. No matter what the range, all deer would have a dime sized entry hole and a quarter sized exit hole. Innards in between were usually thoroughly messed.

A mature bull elk taken with a 7mm Rem Mag with 160 gr Noslers at 275+ yds had the same effect.

Hello MikeG,
Your test idea sounds good. I will have to setup at the range one day. I have to get the paper together and will place the targets at various ranges. Mind you I have done something like this before. The redneck way of testing how hard a bullet hits is by duct tape and phone books. At 200 yards the partition went through about 6 inchs of phone book. It was very impressive to my frends.

Anyway, the Blacktail was on the side of a mountain in B.C. It was approximated to be 150 yards up at an angle of 30 degrees. I shot it and it fell off a cliff to a road about 12 feet below. It then got up ( to my great suprise) and started walking slowly up the road. I then shot it again through the neck and it dropped. Not a clean kill I am sorry to say.

Upon gutting it I was interested in the wound channel. The internal organs were intact with only a small hole going through out. Now mind you, I have used this rifle on bigger tougher game, Wildebeast, Kudu, and Ornx at 90 to 190 yards with 175gr bullet. They did not go far and dropped quickly. So when this deer got up :-() !
Anyhow the wound channel was not what I was expecting or have seen before with a partition. (30-06 at 75 yards on a simular sized whitetail) It just did not appear to have opened up enough. The second shot in the neck clipped the spine. In skinning and hanging the meat there were no signs of lead particules anywhere. This makes me wonder if it was moving too fast for it to work.

Doesn't sound like that particular bullet worked at all. Awaiting the results of your tests.....

thanks for all the input. some of you mentioned the a-max and match king. i thought match bullets are not to be used for hunting thine skinned game. will hornady 162gr sst be to thin of a jacket for the velocities i'll be shooting. i also looked at the 139gr heavy mag sst moly. do you think thats to light. i need help choosing a bullet. i don't like core lokt. i'm a fan of hpbt and poly tip. thanks for any replies.

i don't wanna be a flame thrower, but match bullets belong on the range, and game bullets should be used in the field. match bullets are designed to make small groups. period. they may or may not produce the terminal ballistics needed for clean kills.
that being said, game bullets are tailored to different velocities and one that works well in the 7UM may not do so well in a 7mm-08. partition bullets work well at all velocities i've been able to drive them to, because the foreward part expands rapidly, while the base stays intact.
this is not meant to offend anyone, i simply wish to urge hunters to use bullets designed to do what is needed.

my 2 cents worth

monty

Monty, I understand your not wanting to flame, and a flame would be very unusual around here. Even though there are many disagreements, it is usually very cordial. We all have something to learn from others experiences and ideas.
But, have you ever seen a animal shot with either a-max or match king bullets? I personally have seen animals walk away with quality premium "hunting bullets". I was sure of a proper hit, but the animal just kept on walking, er running.
After a good long tracking job, we found the deer to have a good heart /and or lung shot.
I have personally used my last premium hunting bullet for anything other than Grizzlys. In that case I will be using a 450 grain barnes X, in .458 winnie! In which case i doubt I will be hunting them.
SMK's and the A-max work! Ask the experienced hunters who use them, go to long range hunting.com, there are many photos of deer and moose killed with "target" bullets.

John

i've been a hunting guide here in MT, and while i've seen deer fall to match bullets, including SMK's and Amax, the outfitters i worked for would not allow their use on anything larger.
what i've seen is results that seem to vary dramatically depending on the terminal velocity of the bullet. there are many excellent game bullets to choose from. 'nuff said.

monty

I have used several different style of premium bullets, I have used several differant calibers for them. I am not, nor ever have been a hunting guide.
I do know what has worked for me, and other hunters I have had the pleasure of hunting with.
the largest game I have hunted has been large white tailed deer. Hopefully soon I will be adding black bear to this list.
I will be using the smk's most likely.
Nuff said, Is an irritating remark, as though that is the final word in the particular conversation. And like no one els's opinion has any merit. If a professional outfit would not let me use the bullet of my choice, I would find another outfitter.


John

Hey Bob Its ok to have a 30" barrel on your gun because its yours. I think for every 2" in lenght you gain only 25fps. Thats a good rule of thumb. Go to a web site called Burger Bullets. They are VLD hunting bullets. The 168 grns have like 640 BC & the 180s have like 698 BC. They are very good bullets. The farthest kill that I know of on a elk was just over 1000yrds using a 7mm STW 168 grn VLD Berger bullet. Your UM will hit much harder than that. A 7mm STW with a 180 grn VLD has all so taken a blonde bear at 650yrds. Try another web site called " long range hunting store " It has all you need to get your 7mm RUM out there. I hope that helps.