Has anyone tried H110 with a 405 grain hard cast in a Marlin 1895?

That doesn't sound like a real good idea to me. That powder has a reputation (rightly so) of being fairly difficult to ignite, not burning cleanly at low pressures, and not tolerant of lots of airspace (which it would certainly have in the big .45-70 case).

What are you trying to accomplish... there are lots of reduced loads for the .45-70, check the Lyman manual for example.

That doesn't sound like a real good idea to me. That powder has a reputation (rightly so) of being fairly difficult to ignite, not burning cleanly at low pressures, and not tolerant of lots of airspace (which it would certainly have in the big .45-70 case).

What are you trying to accomplish... there are lots of reduced loads for the .45-70, check the Lyman manual for example.

Mike G.

I fill the case with granulated styrofoam that acts as a gas check. Will this remove the air space objection?

That doesn't sound like a real good idea to me. That powder has a reputation (rightly so) of being fairly difficult to ignite, not burning cleanly at low pressures, and not tolerant of lots of airspace (which it would certainly have in the big .45-70 case).

What are you trying to accomplish... there are lots of reduced loads for the .45-70, check the Lyman manual for example.
What I am trying to accomplish is make use of 8 lbs of mil surplus H110 type powder.

Mike, I certainly understand that. Don't know where you are going to find any good reliable load data, though. That would seem to be the biggest obstacle.

Best of luck. Be safe....

My experience with H-110 is that it is a great powder for heavy cast bullets in a big bore pistol (and my .454 lever gun) but the thought of attempting to use in my 45-70 makes my eyeballs scrinch up!

H110 seems to realy shine when it is ever so slightly compressed. I would worry about the styrofoam not allowing for that. If there was any shifting of powder...

My understanding of H-110 is that there is a danger if it is underloaded, hence the "do not reduce" warning in the manuals.

It may be safer to purchase a new .45 Colt and deal with the consequences of that decision ;*)

Tell the wife that you got such a good deal on the powder that the pistol was free!

I am by no means the last word on this, but will watch the thread to see if bolder men than me have fingers left to type with.

Scotty

Don't know what the styrofoam will do when being subjected the the heat of the burning powder and how it will coat the bore. Being a straight walled case, you could always use one of the creamed cereals for a filler and get the compression necessary (Cream of Wheat, Cream of Rice, Malt-O-Meal, etc).

Heck, I even looked in my Hodgdon manual and could find no loadings using H110 for the 45-70.

The .454 Casull had a load of 28.5 gr of H110 for a 300 gr JFP bullet, but showing 44.2K of pressure. The .475 Linebaugh had a loading of 27.0 gr for a 385 gr cast LRNFP at 45.3K pressure. A 420 gr cast LRNFP had 25.0 gr with 36.7K pressure.

As you can see, these more limited case capacity loadings are developing more than recommended pressure for your 1895 Marlin. If you decide to shoot up the surplus powder in your 45-70, I'd start less than 20 grains using the cereal filler and see how things go. Might want to use a magnum rifle primer to ignite the hard to start powder if things work out but have unburnt powder in the bore.

Sounds like an excellent reason to get a .44 Mag revolver or levergun. Or a .357 Mag, or a .45 LC ,or a .480 Ruger, or a .454 Casull. :)

I did a quick check at Levergun Performance Studies. I figgured that if anybody figgured out how to use that particular pistol powder in a 45-70, they would have.

No Dice. Check them out for other pistol powders in the 45-70

http://www.gmdr.com/

Scotty

I think what Coldfingers found out and posted speaks volumes regarding this matter.

mike_goldstein
H110 is not suitable for the 45-70-thats why you find no published data for it any where!!!! :mad: And using stirofoam for filler is not good!! :mad: Don't believe me ask any good gunsmith? Stick with rifle powders made for that caliber gun, you are definately asking for trouble with the path your following. If your lucky you'll just ruin your barrel-plastic melted in it. or you'll stick a bullet and blow your gun to bits!

mike_goldstein
H110 is not suitable for the 45-70-thats why you find no published data for it any where!!!! :mad: And using stirofoam for filler is not good!! :mad: Don't believe me ask any good gunsmith? Stick with rifle powders made for that caliber gun, you are definately asking for trouble with the path your following. If your lucky you'll just ruin your barrel-plastic melted in it. or you'll stick a bullet and blow your gun to bits!

DONT DO WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN HERE:OR USE AT YOUR OWN RISK - Mike Goldstein

I have used styrofoam as a gas check for hundreds of rounds with my 44 mag and have seen zero plastic coating on the barrel. I originaly tried styrofoam wads and I recovered them down range blackened but not melted. It does however completely eliminate leading in the barrel. As for the H110: I found published similar loads for 44 mag in H110 and 2400 and established a ratio between these two powders. I then found a light trapdoor load that used 2400 and used the ratio to establish a H110 load. I tried 30 grains of H110 with a 405 grain bullet. I filled the case to the top with granulated styrofoam and compressed this with the bullet. I have opened these rounds and the styrofoam forms a sturdy wad that can be removed with tweesers but easily crumbles. This arrangement solves the air space problem with H110. I fired this load with along side a 40 grain RL7 load. The H110 produced similar felt recoil, no sticky extractions, no flattened primers, and excellent groups. My next task will be to chronograph this load.

Mike Goldstein

To get thru 8lbs of H110 in your lifetime, you'll need a progressive loader and a large bore magnum handgun or carbine. You might just want to swap it with a friend for something more appropriate.

Even if you can get it to work in the 45-70 (a little spooky, imho), you'll to be hand stuffing styrofoam in 15,987 cases. Before you go, you might want to show your kids how to do it since they'll be the ones to finish off that powder.

I don't want to do it but my better nature is forcing me into doing it. Give me that 8lbs. of H110 and I safely dispose of it in 20 grain quanities thru my 45 Colt Rossi 92. You will be safe, the Marlin will be safe and I'll sleep better knowing that I'm helping a brother.
Jim

To get thru 8lbs of H110 in your lifetime, you'll need a progressive loader and a large bore magnum handgun or carbine. You might just want to swap it with a friend for something more appropriate.

Even if you can get it to work in the 45-70 (a little spooky, imho), you'll to be hand stuffing styrofoam in 15,987 cases. Before you go, you might want to show your kids how to do it since they'll be the ones to finish off that powder.

I use the H110 in my 44 mag too. I shoot alot, 3 times a week, almost a couple of hundred rounds. The styrofoam goes in a second using a lee powder scoop. Not much time involved. I pulverize the styrofoam using a small food processor, also quick.

Mike Goldstein

Don't know what the styrofoam will do when being subjected the the heat of the burning powder and how it will coat the bore. Being a straight walled case, you could always use one of the creamed cereals for a filler and get the compression necessary (Cream of Wheat, Cream of Rice, Malt-O-Meal, etc).

As you can see, these more limited case capacity loadings are developing more than recommended pressure for your 1895 Marlin. If you decide to shoot up the surplus powder in your 45-70, I'd start less than 20 grains using the cereal filler and see how things go. Might want to use a magnum rifle primer to ignite the hard to start powder if things work out but have unburnt powder in the bore.

Thanks for the reply. I have tried cream of wheat in the past and it seems like the pressures were higher than I wanted as the COW is heavier than styrofoam. Also I have opened up some of my COW rounds and the COW has set up like concrete.

Mike Goldstein

This will happen to the uppermost part of the cereals when compressing. In the straight walled case, this is nothing to worry about. A second thought - might want to use a vegetable fiber wad between the powder and the cereal.

Yes, you need to weigh the amount of cereal being used and to incorporate that into the weight you're pushing down bore. Back off correspondenly with the powder load or choose a lighter weight bullet.

I use H110 exclusively in my .458 SOCOM which is basically a .45-70 which is used in an AR-15 type rifle, operating at a maximum pressure of 35,000 PSI. However, there is a catch. While a .45-70 has a case capacity of H2O of 80.1 gr., the .458 SOCOM has a case capacity of H2O of only 65.7.
A maximum load in the .458 SOCOM with H110 powder and a 405 gr. bullet is 33.6 gr for a vel of 1600 fps out of a 16" barrel. Can this data be used in a .45-70? That I will leave to you, but I wouldn't. The case capacity is too different so if you use it you are on your own. The advice I would give is to use a good filler and stay away from styrofoam. I would stick with a proper filler like that sold by Ballistic Products. Also, do not forget to factor in the weight of the filler as part of the bullet. While the .458 SOCOM loads are 35K PSI max, what they give in a .45-70 is anyone's guess. If you can find someone with Load from a Disk or Quick Load they can crunch the numbers for you. For bullets heavier than 405 gr., H110 is not even a good powder in the .458 SOCOM. I would expect loads based on the .458 SOCOM to give even lower pressures in the larger .45-70 case, but remember, as the charge goes up and the bullet weight goes up, pressures can increase tremendously with just a slight increase in charge. Be very careful and IMO you should seek out a better powder and sell the H110 clone powder.

mike_goldstein
Well Mike you asked the question -we here gave our advice -you made the dessision to go against what we here have advised-have fun !!

mike_goldstein
Well Mike you asked the question -we here gave our advice -you made the dessision to go against what we here have advised-have fun !!


With all due respect, I don't take your advice lightly, but I was not asking for your advice, just if anyone had a 45-70 load in H110. "No" would have done fine. I am aware of the limitations of this powder. I just wanted to arrive at a quick starting point if one existed.

Thanks,

Mike Goldstein

Per your request. No.

Mike,

I may take a little heat here, but I gotta say that I admire your boldness (and brains) for pushing through to a successfull end. I cannot help but think of the things we take for granted today (like aircraft and rockets to the moon) that are the result of men going against the flow.

I am glad that you came up with an apperently successfull load rather than another way to get launched into space though ;*)

Scotty

Mike,

I may take a little heat here, but I gotta say that I admire your boldness (and brains) for pushing through to a successfull end. I cannot help but think of the things we take for granted today (like aircraft and rockets to the moon) that are the result of men going against the flow.

I am glad that you came up with an apperently successfull load rather than another way to get launched into space though ;*)

Scotty

Thanks for NASA setiment Scotty. My thought process was that the critical element with the powder was the "air space" (no pun intended) problem. I thought since I used a filler anyway the H110 would behave like it was in a smaller case.
I guess you are going to have to beam me up since I refuse to blow up.

Mike G.

I use H110 exclusively in my .458 SOCOM which is basically a .45-70 which is used in an AR-15 type rifle, operating at a maximum pressure of 35,000 PSI.

Thanks Big Bore, I found your reply very helpful. That .458 SOCOM sounds fantastic. I bet the recoil is a lot tamer than my Marlin too.

Mike G.

Mike,

I may need more power to beam you up!

You info has been noted in my little load book. I may never use it, but living at the end of the road like I do, it is not inconceavable that I would someday have to make do with what is avaliable.
Alaska is pretty isolated and a simple shipping strike can make things scarce. Thinking outside the box is mandatory sometimes.