.223, .22-250, .220 swift? Is a .22 mag too small for coyotes?

The nice thing about the .223 would be the cheap ammo.

What do you guys think?

A sportsmen always uses a weapon they will ensure a quick, humane kill. Allowing your quarry to escape wounded into the brush and die a slow, painful death is not an option. .22 Mag is not up to this type of hunting. Any of the other calibers you listed are, by far, a better choice. My 2 cents.....

220 swift and 22-250 are about as good as you can get. 223 not quite as good. 22 mag should not be used for coyotes or fox. not enuf poop to get the job done. rimfires should not be used for anything larger than rodents.
sheer velocity is the bottom line to shoot flat and accurate. you'll want a bullet that will pretty much blow up inside the critters so just the bullet base will exit. this keeps pelt damage to a minimum with good hits. this requires velocity, and the swift or 22-250 are pretty much equal (the edge goes to the swift). the 223 can be used, but you probably won't get the bullets to disintegrate inside, and the reach will be a little short of the other two. some people use 223 FMJ ammo on coyotes, but they will occasionaly fail to anchor the animal even with decent hits.

monty

220 swift and 22-250 are about as good as you can get. 223 not quite as good. 22 mag should not be used for coyotes or fox. not enuf poop to get the job done. rimfires should not be used for anything larger than rodents.
sheer velocity is the bottom line to shoot flat and accurate. you'll want a bullet that will pretty much blow up inside the critters so just the bullet base will exit. this keeps pelt damage to a minimum with good hits. this requires velocity, and the swift or 22-250 are pretty much equal (the edge goes to the swift). the 223 can be used, but you probably won't get the bullets to disintegrate inside, and the reach will be a little short of the other two. some people use 223 FMJ ammo on coyotes, but they will occasionaly fail to anchor the animal even with decent hits.

monty
I read a recent post by a fellow who reloads .223 for coyote. He said that at top velocities, his FMJ's where actually coming apart BEFORE impact and he had to back down on the charge.....

.22 mag is one of the most popular poaching guns for deer...which you know I've only hunted deer for 10 years of my life, but I am pretty sure they are larger than a coyote. Depending on the range the .22 mag would be fine, as long as you are a good shot.

poaching deer is not accaptable. using remfires on coyotes is not advisable. i grew up on a cattle ranch here in montana and have hunted coyotes for thirty years, and sometimes survived on what i could make on coyote pelts. so trust me on this. rimfires DO NOT HAVE ENUF POOP to reliably drop coyotes. not enuf reach either.

monty

.22 mag is one of the most popular poaching guns for deer...which you know I've only hunted deer for 10 years of my life, but I am pretty sure they are larger than a coyote. Depending on the range the .22 mag would be fine, as long as you are a good shot.
...I doubt that poachers are concerned about bad shot placement resulting in an escaped, suffering animal.....

botek: i've not heard of a fmj blowing up at any velocity. the swift can sometimes blow up hollow points if they wern't made for the hi velocity, but the 223 falls quite a bit short of the speed of the swift. i haven't used many fmj bullets, since i have no real need for them, but the 5.56 NATO is 223 fmj and is reliable.

monty

monty...as I said, this is something I read on the forum and one does wonder about this. I will see if I can find this post and get more info....it does seem remarkable

The .223 is pretty good as long as ranges are not too long, so I think it depends a lot on where you call and if you are willing to pass up long shots. I like it because it's cheap to reload, but when going to the step-father-in-law's Eastern Montana ranch, the 6mm (or previously, the .243) goes along. It's real windy and shots are longer there.

i agree, the 223 is a good cartridge to use on coyotes. all the good things (accuracy, cheap brass, reasonable velocity). i have and would use it anytime. the swift & 22-250 will provide an advantage tho.
the 6mm/243 really knocks 'em down doesn't it? when the prices drop to next to nothing, sometimes i'll use my 264 mag for it's extra reach, and switch from "fur harvesting" to "preditor control". kind of makes a mess of 'em, but if it ain't worth skinning them...

monty

botek: i've not heard of a fmj blowing up at any velocity. the swift can sometimes blow up hollow points if they wern't made for the hi velocity, but the 223 falls quite a bit short of the speed of the swift. i haven't used many fmj bullets, since i have no real need for them, but the 5.56 NATO is 223 fmj and is reliable.

monty
Monte,
I, like you don't like FMJ either. I think they are erratic in performance. Read the Fackler study and he said the military loading of the 5.56mm will travel about 5 inches before yawing (not fragmenting), the bullet does eventually break up and fragment at the canelure though. Because of this I don't think FMJ bullets are effective on the small bodies of a coyote or fox unless you hit them length wise and then from what I read the impact velocity must be atleast 2700 fps. www.btammolabs.com/fackler/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf

poaching deer is not accaptable. using remfires on coyotes is not advisable. i grew up on a cattle ranch here in montana and have hunted coyotes for thirty years, and sometimes survived on what i could make on coyote pelts. so trust me on this. rimfires DO NOT HAVE ENUF POOP to reliably drop coyotes. not enuf reach either.

monty


I will tell ya this much, I have taken many yotes with the .22mag and seen several deer taken with one so I know first hand that they are a very capable rifle. You can argue all day that they aren't suited for taking yotes but I know otherwise.

what about the 17 remington i use it all the time up to 400 yards good on coyote,fox,pdogs i love the 22-250 to
check out the new cal. that ruger got out the ruger 204 that might work too

what about the 17 remington i use it all the time up to 400 yards good on coyote,fox,pdogs i love the 22-250 to
check out the new cal. that ruger got out the ruger 204 that might work too
Yup, I agree the 17 is good, the new 204 should also be first rate. 400 yds is too long of a shot for the 17 on coyote. I doubt if that little 17 bullet will expand.

i've not used the .17 remington but i've heard it's very capable of taking coyotes. i'm looking foreward to hearing how the 204 ruger does. i'm thinking good.
it's not legal to use rimfires on deer and anything larger in montana. i don't know about the other states.
i once hit a coyote broadside thru both lungs with .264 Win Mag (120 gr Matchking) at 225yds (lung tissue on the snow behind where he stood when i shot). i tracked that coyote for over a mile through three feet of snow before recovering it. i have no idea why that shot in the center of ribcage did not slam that coyote to the ground. the .264 is huge overkill for coyote. recovered coyote had 3" exit wound (bullet began expanding). my point is do not underestimate your target.

monty

You could shoot the yotes with a 22LR if you wanted to the mag is fine or the 223 I hunt them with bolth of em :cool:

I disagree, the 17 Rem is capable of 400 yard shots on coyotes, but that is the max with good bullets, bergers come to mind. Having said that, I don't think that there is a perfect coyote/fox/bobcat rifle. For coyotes you just can't beat the 22-250, its a 500 + yard coyote gun with low recoil and low noise if you get a long barreled one 26" min IMO. As for foxes and bobcats, the 22-250 is extremly hard on hides, and seeing that a medium bobcat hide in my area is bringing 300-450 $$'s blowing them up is not an option. There I use the 17 Rem with spectacular results, and no hide damage, of course when your calling bobcats and foxes, coyotes have a nasty habit of showing up every now and then too, but the little 17 dispatches them really well up to 400 yards.

I too am looking for a long range varmint rifle. I've been particularly interested in the .220 Swift, but am also looking at the new .223 WSSM. Ballistically they are equal and at the top of the 22 caliber spectrum. The thing that's got me more inclined to get a .223 WSSM is that I like winchester model 70 rifles. A 22-250 would be excellent and is certainly popular among varmint hunters, but for some reason I wanna be a bit different!

monty...as I said, this is something I read on the forum and one does wonder about this. I will see if I can find this post and get more info....it does seem remarkable


Do you think the rate of twist in the barrel could have anything to do with the bullets blowing up in flight?

that's a thought. i did a little math (scary)
if a gun had a twist of 1 in 12" and a velocity of 3800 fps, thats means the bullet is turning at a rate of 228,000 rpm. am i right? that's a lot. i picked 1 in 12" because Nosler lists that twist for thier test barrel for .223. 3800 fps as close to the max velocity for 40 gr bullet.

monty

I do allot of Varmint hunting and hunting in general, I have shot many Coyotes in my time using a 22LR, shot placement is everything and being close enough and using the right bullet, but there is better tools in the shed, so since I'm going to the shed, I vote the Winchester 243Win at the top of my list, Remember those 22 Cal's have a problem with wind on those long shots, This is one area the 243 Winchester shines,She is a flat shooter and packs a wallop in the end as well, basicly a neck down .308, you can't say that for the 22Cal's o a long shot, like apples and pairs except for the 22-250 that gives the 243 a run for its money,but still comes up short on beating the 243Win, Oh ya and Loaders best in this category the 257 Roberts now your really talking ultimate varmint cart, but like I said to Loader, I like the availability of the 243win, walk in anywhere they got 243 bullets ;) If your a reloader the sky is your limit, I have just started reloading the 243 win, my first loads using 100gr Hornady SP Interlock on top of Re19/IMR7828 using aFed Gold GM210M match primers, used rcbs dies C.O.L 2.630 bye the book.running between 2800-3000fps. Shot a one inch groups after finding the sweet spot, four three shots groups with in a inch, I could never get that from any 22cal on a windy day like that day and sometimes your hunting in the wind. I also think the 243 is a little light for white tail deer hunting, but I have many friends that use them down southern states with good results, The 115gr BarnsXLC original is a good choice for Medium size game, the bullet performs like a champ, the typical mushroom, increasing the meplat twice the size, In tern causing some unbelievable shocking power. You can get 3000fps using R25. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

RAMbo -

I'm with you, there are definitely better choices than the .22Mag. While I've taken one coyote with a .22-250 at a hair under 500, that was on a dead-calm day. Can't wait to find out what my new .257 Roberts will do with 75g +P loads.

IMHO, a .223 is a superb choice for non-handloaders, as inexpensive ammo is plentiful. It is, of course, an equally good choice for those who do handload. Barrel life is very good, it doesn't use a much powder, and it doesn't give up all that much in range when compared to the .22-250 -- I find most shot opportunities don't require the difference.

what about a .30 caliber (.30-.30, .30-06, .308 ect) shooting .22's from a sabot? no clue on what the statistics would be but what do you think of that?

what about a .30 caliber (.30-.30, .30-06, .308 ect) shooting .22's from a sabot? no clue on what the statistics would be but what do you think of that?

I think you would be disappointed. You get good velocity, but accuracy generally won't be as good as a .rifle chambered in .223/.22-250/etc.

I've tried the 30-06 accelerators; they were fun to shoot at the time, but not as accurate as standard loads, and that was only out to 100yds. Kind of defeats the idea of a small, long-range bullet.

Since then, I bought a 223 and love it. Had considered the 22-250, but price of ammo became a deciding factor. Shot placement is the key no matter what you shoot. I'm getting 1.5" groups at 200yds with it, and the confidence when shooting makes more difference than the higher velocity: shot placement will outperform speed any day of the year.

the 22 mag isn;t a yote killer. wasn't made to kill yotes, nore was it made to kill fox. the 223 and 22-250 are great yote guns. the 12 guage should be taken over the 22 mag any day

Moyer -

I've killed 51 coyotes, the first few with a .22LR, the rest with a .22-250, 7mm Rem Mag and .375Win. Even with good placement the .22LR performance was not acceptable to me -- it would kill them but not quickly enough.

I've never seen how a .22 Mag works, but I have seen .223's and have to believe they are FAR superior when it comes to quick lethality. And their range is considerably greater.

Any one of the cartridges listed would work. I think the .223 would be more versitile when it comes to reloading. Just my experience, though.

steve

I like the .223. your right cheap ammo; and it will do it to 400yds. 22-250 and swift your really only getting another 100 150 yrds but with 1/3 more powder!

I wasn't condoning poaching...if I ever see a poacher on my property I might be liable to "slip" and pop him in the leg. I was just stating that in the hands of a good shot any of those rounds would work.

Hi all,
Most of my coyote hunting is done with a 22-250, no problems. Almost all the rest is done with the 223, either a Mini-14 or AR15. It depends on where I'm hunting, close desert scrub or open range. While I prefer the 22-250 in a bolt gun, I've had too many coy's sneak up behind me in close scrub. Thanks, I like the little carbines for that. What do I use the rest of the time? Whatever I have with me, from 300Wby down to 45 Colt in a 94 Winchester. (got a coy at 15 yds with a 1911 one time, see the above "sneaking" comment!)
Good shooting,
HP

I do allot of Varmint hunting and hunting in general, I have shot many Coyotes in my time using a 22LR, shot placement is everything and being close enough and using the right bullet, but there is better tools in the shed, ...Remember those 22 Cal's have a problem with wind on those long shots, ... you can't say that for the 22Cal's o a long shot,...


Yeah, but what about when you are NOT going long?

Let's say at 30 yards or so?

Also, factor in noise. How would a .22Mag compare to a .17Rem in noise?

What is interesting is the .19 Calhoon, which is the .22 Hornet necked down to .19. I imagine the .22 Hornet and .19 Calhoon fall somewhere between the .22lr and the .17Rem or .223 Rem as far as noise/speed/ability. The .223 probably is champ for cost.

Alternative: Can the .223 be downloaded? Would using pistol powder/primers make it quieter?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks.

I like the .223. your right cheap ammo; and it will do it to 400yds. 22-250 and swift your really only getting another 100 150 yrds but with 1/3 more powder!

At the range I see them (under 50 yards), I might almost try my 9mm Ruger pistol if on the close end of that. Maybe a 9mm carbine would be a good ticket?

Just thinking out loud here. I imagine anything over .223 or .243 is too big, and anything 22mag and under might be too small unless ideal conditions, no? I am still wondering about 22mag since most shops and cops around say just to use the .22LR since it is nice and quiet.

I shoot a stack of 'yotes every year with my tack driving Savage in .223 with Black Hills 52 grain ammo. Never lost a one and several were gut shot due to running at top speed and long distance. Hey, it happens.

Best set up is one hunter has a good 12 gauge or 16 gauge with choke set on improved modified or full. Load up with #2 lead shot. Other hunter has a good .223 zero'd for 225 yards. Or a scoped .243, 30-30, whatever zero'd for same distance. Coyotes are not armor plated. Call the beggars in and shotgun them first. Send the survivors a dose of death as they try to outrun the bullets.

Here in western South Dakota, coyotes have zero game protection and are classed as a menace to livestock. We kill stacks every year but no shortage of the beggars.
TR

Curious as to what you decide? I have the .223 in a Contender Carbine 21" barrel, and don't know why the caliber isn't the best choice for all the good reasons below. Here in NH the FMJ isn't legal for hunting, but with Wal-mart ammo... Winchester jacketed hollow points I can hit an egg on a breezy day at 100 yards. You can always pay lots more, for silvertips and such, but what more do you need on a thin-skinned animal? And I doubt you'll get many coyotes posing much beyond 200 yards, cuz if they're coming to a call, they're gonna keep right on coming. Get a video to watch and use a decoy. Good hunting.

YOU CAN KILL A COYOTE AT ABOUT ANY RANGE WITH ANY CALIBER. iT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR EXPECTAIONS ARE.
sHOT PLACEMENT IS KEY AND THE LESS RELIABLE THE SHOT IS PLACED THE MORE IMPORTANT ENERGY IS. lONG RANGES IMPAIR SHOT PLACEMENT NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOUR ARE. If ranges estimates are not done with a rangefinder I am skeptical.Human perceptions at long ranges is very inaccurate. Most people I have noticed to be off by hundreds of yards at long ranges, even in the 400 to 600 yd distances.
Pick a rifle and caliber you like to shoot and then practive shooting and range estimating.I have killed coyotes with a 17 rem and it works but is very specialized. saves pelts but is not going to be as effective at range and varying wind conditions. 223 ,22 250,243,220swift,.308,6mm284 , 22250 improved and a 12 guage have all been used to take hundreds of coyotes over the years for me
. They all work.Consider what other hunting you may want to do with this rifle, it may be the determing factor.
Range estimation becomes less important with the longer and flatter shooting cartridges,this is a big plus. Fast 22 or 243 cartridges give you this. Look at trajectories and retained energy downrange. A 17 rem at 400 yards has 168 ft lbs of energy. My 6mm/284 has 900. Now if your aim is off and you hit the coyote in the butt, which one do you think is going to put him down.I know...I've done it!
good luck, generally the longer these threads are the less the author knows. I,ve probably proved that theory here.

p.s. coyote and fox guns may only be interchangeable in smaller cartridiges (17,222,223). Fox pelts are paper thin and come apart way sooner than a coyote.Since fox are also much smaller , exit of bullet occurs much more frequently.

I shoot a stack of 'yotes every year with my tack driving Savage in .223 with Black Hills 52 grain ammo. Never lost a one and several were gut shot due to running at top speed and long distance. Hey, it happens.

Best set up is one hunter has a good 12 gauge or 16 gauge with choke set on improved modified or full. Load up with #2 lead shot. Other hunter has a good .223 zero'd for 225 yards. Or a scoped .243, 30-30, whatever zero'd for same distance. Coyotes are not armor plated. Call the beggars in and shotgun them first. Send the survivors a dose of death as they try to outrun the bullets.

Here in western South Dakota, coyotes have zero game protection and are classed as a menace to livestock. We kill stacks every year but no shortage of the beggars.
TR

Finally someone who knows enough to take a shotgun to a call stand.

I'd like to make a vote in favor of the .223 here. You can get all kinds of great ammo, some with heavy bullets at more or less the same B.C. as 168 Sierra .308 match bullets. I've been shooting highpower matches for a few years now, and I've seen the .223's shot in competition out to 1000 yards through ar-15's. I've also seen more than one A-Max blown up not 15 feet past the barrel in hot loads from AR's. The .223 won't be much too hot for foxes and the like, will still drop coyotes, has a very long range if you're good at doping wind, range estimations, and shooting at moving targets, which comes into play with even the .22-250 and the swift. Plus, if you're a non-handloader, there are all kinds of terrific selections in .223 ammo available, even cheap military surplus to practice with. Some of you may laugh, but I've seen the green-tip military rounds group less than 1 M.O.A. with iron-sighted service rifles. It will do anything the .22-250 will do if you do your part, same with the swift, won't burn barrels as fast, brass is easier to come by if you reload, and if you don't there is a smorgousboard of great ammo available.

I highly recommend the .223 for yotes for all the above reasons. I hunted yotes in the western mt.'s of Maine for alot of years and killed alot of yotes well over 50lbs.(my biggest was 53) I would also say that you need to use bullets between 50 and 55grs. Push those bullets as fast as possible out of an AUTOLOADER. Why an auto??? The boom and the action sound is all one sound and if you miss or there is more than one animal you will have a fast follow up shot. Believe me,you cannot cycle a bolt quite enough not to spook a coyote. I've killed numerous doubles and 3 triples by using an auto. Also i have several Bushmaster's and i would HIGHLY recommend that weapon. Also a 16" bbl is all you want to swing fast. Coyote hunting is great fun--good luck.---pruhdlr

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/newssummary/s_224598.html

.19 Calhoun Badger cartridge based on the .30 carbine necked down to .19!

While reading this thread, it became fairly obvious to me who had shot a few coyotes, who'd shot a lot of coyotes, and who'd likely never shot one at all.

I'm certainly no know it all on predator hunting, but I HAVE shot way more that my fair share of coyotes. I've used cartridges from the little .22 LR to a .300 win mag, so I feel I'm qualified to post my opinion. Take it or leave it as you will.

The rimfires will do the job, but they won't do it reliably. They're just not enough for coyotes. Yes, they'll work on foxes pretty well at limited range, but stick to centerfires for coyotes.

Without posting my thoughts on harvesting fur, Anything from the .243 up will damage the hides pretty badly most of the time. They'll kill a coyote or fox with monotonous regularity out to 500 yards +, but the hides will bring even lower prices than they would otherwise.

The .22 centerfires will kill equally well at slightly less range, and won't damage the hides quite as bad or as often. You'll still damage quite a few, but you can sew them up if you want to harvest the fur. Of the three listed, the .223 is the most fur friendly, and the .220 swift and 22-250 will give you the longest effective range. All of this is will proper loads, of course.

Personally, I use a .17 Remington and Berger 25 grain non-MEF match bullets. They kill very effectively out to 200 yards or so, and make a tiny entrance wound with seldom an exit. It's still a little rough on our little grey foxes, so I keep a Marlin 882SS with a 16" bbl in .22 mag for just such calling situations. Since greys are usually found in brushy pockets, shots are generally close. If I happen to call a coyote in those situations, a CAREFULLY placed bullet at close range from the .22 mag tends to do the trick.

Mi dos centavos, amigos.

Drifter

Just wondering does anybody still shoot the 222 rem.

22-250 for me personally, I have had shots out to 400 yards and it anchors the object it makes contact with. the 17 remington will as well. The 17 hmr is awesome out to about 200 yards, my father in law uses it for critter control on his cattle ranch and it will put a coyote down quick. As for georgia it is illegal to hunt fox,bobcat etc with anything larger than a rimfire so the 22mag and 17hmr fit the bill perfectly.

The problem with the 222/223/22-250 is as a long distance varmint rifle, wind can affect accuracy at long distances using these carts, they don't do well with any wind at all, these carts can not maintain a large enough bullet, This is were the 6mm/243win ect...100gr bullets travel better, than the 55gr bullets on days that have some wind, if you are reaching out over 200 yards this is when you will notice your accuracy drop off. this is why I prefer the 243win/6mm/260 over the other carts mentioned. Aim Small hit small. RAMbo.

my personal opinion is that we should use a 6 mm or .257 on song-dogs. i have seen too many yotes hit behind the shoulder with a .223 and not even knocked down.

they often did the death-dance, spinning in circles trying to bite at the entry wound, and whirled all over the place before collapsing. tough to make a follow-up shot when they are doing that dance. these were the results of hits with a .222, .223 or .22-250 right thru the lungs but at 250-400 yard ranges.

so i switched to an 85 gr sierra BTHP at 3200 ft/sec in 6 mm remington, and to a 90 gr sierra BTHP at 3100 ft/sec in .250 savage. these put the song-dogs down with authority.

for longer shots i use the same 90 gr sierra from a .257 roberts 24" at 3200 fps or 257 ackley improved 26" at 3400 fps, which will flatten a yote at 400 yards

but i am not hunting for prime winter pelts in snow country. i'm shooting scruffy high-desert dogs year-round, just predator control.

lapsub

my personal opinion is that we should use a 6 mm or .257 on song-dogs. i have seen too many yotes hit behind the shoulder with a .223 and not even knocked down.


Sorry, I prefer to call them close, hit them right, and I SAVE THE HIDES. The .17 Remington is just right for my uses, and I speak as one who's killed several hundred coyotes with a .243. It's rough on hides.

I only need to shoot out to about 200 yards because I call them close, even in open country. The 17 Remington kills them really quick with my handloaded ammo, but I also place my bullets with extreme accuracy.

All calibers are good or bad, depending on your use and abilities. I've been killing coyotes steadily and successfully for nearly 30 years, so I believe I'm able to choose what caliber works for me and what I do.

Others experiences will vary, so use what works for you.

Drifter

22-250 OR THE 223 ALL THE WAY WITH HANDLOADS. MY 22-250 SHOOTS 4'' ROUND CLAY PIGONS OFF A DIRT BANK AT 440 MEETERS ALL DAY LONG. 55 GR BALL TIPS WITH 38.3GR H-380 WITH WLR PRIMERS SET AT .004 OFF LANDS. ALSO HAS A 8x32-44 TASCO WORLD CLASS PLUS SCOPE. I HAVE GOTTEN FIVE COYOTES WITH IT LAST YEAR FROM 50 TO 375 YDS. ALL DEAD BEFORE THEY HIT THE GROUND.

Just wondering does anybody still shoot the 222 rem.

Have one - it's a newer acquisition. 10" Contender, and I like it! I am rather sure it's not going to be a 400 yard varmint gun, but I hope to get very accurate and consistant with it to 200 yards.

Good thread - y'all have a good one!

For small to medium predators and small game the 223 is a great cartridge. Most of us have to use our guns for multiple things, paper shooting, plinking, hunting so I would suggest something along the lines of a 243 or 25 cal, can be loaded down or up or in between.

Any of the .22's you listed will be perfect. .22LR is not enough gun for 'yotes, but a .22 mag is just about perfect.

I don't feel right about killing a fellow predator...

What do you do with the coyote after you kill it?

absolutely nothing, usually I will hunt them in the summer and the fur is really crappy then. I actually have been out of town deer hunting for the past week and saw quite a few, in fact one was black and I wish I had of had something other than a deer rifle to shoot him with. My friend and I set out some traps but a heavy rain came that night and uncovered all of our traps. If I were to get them in the fall or winter I would probably get at least one mounted but it never works out like that. We shoot for control issues primarily because they hinder a cattle operation and hunting camp that my father inlaw runs in Thomaston ga.

So do you just leave them there to rot? :D

sure the buzzards have to eat as well

Poppie says he can'ts stands no more!

Now all joking aside I have to agree with Rmouleart on a couple of items concerning this thread. One, is that wind is always a factor and sure does move little bullets around, causing misses. Two, little bullets run out of gas compared to the bigger ones, which do deliver more down range energy.

I have killed coyotes with a .22mag.....HEAD SHOTS at 40 and 50 yards. Bullet used was Winchester Solids.

I spent a lot of years shooting coyotes and groundhogs and made a little money at it also. Shot a lot of coyotes in the head with .222, 22-250 (which is real hard on pelts using a body shot) the 6mm Remington and the .243 Winchester as well.

My favorite all out coyote exterminator is the 25/06 bar none!
It's a 400 yard taker of yotes! Yes, I can here those in the grandstands telling me they like getting them in close by calling, I have done that also and looked em in the eye before despatching their bodies to the ground permanently.
However, when you are counting number of pelts per day, taking them long will add up quicker by far.

I don't recommed the .22mag at all for coyotes are even fox or big coons, unless your head shooting them up very close.
I have 2 serious coyote rifles, the 6mm Remington with bull barrel and my model 70 25/06 which is somewhat lighter to tote around in Northern Missouri. We got yotes up there as big as wolfs. Most hunters use a .243, 6mm, 25/06, 6.5/06 or a 270 Winchester.

I'm always getting confused between them Wolves and Coyotes....:D SSS I agree about the .25/06 although I'd like a little bit better bullet selection...

to each his own, we don't really care if they die now or later, just as long as they die. I have shot coyotes at 375 yards with my 22-250 and I have been with my father in law when he has shot them with his 17hmr @ 100 yards. bottom line, they either die now or later. A smaller bullet will rattle around and destroy the varmint internally.

For coyotes I prefere my 30-30 I have taken them with 22lr 7.62x39, 12ga and several other things I think a .223 is perfect for foxes then ya don't mess up the hide to much. That brings me to this, Sunday a shot a fox with my 30-30, tore up the hide to much to save it but I got the tail, i washed the blood of and let it dry unfortunaly after I let it dry it started messing with it and notice fleas on my arms, so I called the docters office about finding human flea shampoo and they referred me to a vet where they gave me a sample of flea and tick shampoo. I now have been flea free for about 36 hours. I don't know if the fleas would have stayed but I figured better safe then sorry and have the pride of being refered to a vet.

For coyotes I prefere my 30-30 I have taken them with 22lr 7.62x39, 12ga and several other things I think a .223 is perfect for foxes then ya don't mess up the hide to much. That brings me to this, Sunday a shot a fox with my 30-30, tore up the hide to much to save it but I got the tail, i washed the blood of and let it dry unfortunaly after I let it dry it started messing with it and notice fleas on my arms, so I called the docters office about finding human flea shampoo and they referred me to a vet where they gave me a sample of flea and tick shampoo. I now have been flea free for about 36 hours. I don't know if the fleas would have stayed but I figured better safe then sorry and have the pride of being refered to a vet.


I guess it paid off for me to take that Hazz-Matt course a couple years back.......Getting attacked by Fleas is some real serious business. I hear tell Europe almost got wiped out by the little Buggers!!!

Well, It just pays to carry a side arm when yote hunting these days. A good one, would be a can of One Shot Bug Killer. I am sure that would take care of fleas that whent South bound on Mr. Yote. :D :D :D

If I were hunting fur I would use FMJ bullets in what ever center fire I was using. They do less damage to fox than a 22 rimfire HP. I have shot foxes, coon, and bobcat with both a 22 rf and an 06 using FMJ. The exit wound with the 06 is usually smaller than with a 22. Sense fur prices are so low the only fur bearers I hunt now is yotes for the bounty are county pays. For them I use a mini 14 in ther woods and a 300 mag. in open country.

The new 19 BADGER is a result of field testing the 19 Calhoon (Hornet) and 19-223. Our minimizing approach to varminting, as John Anderson of Varmint Hunter Magazine calls it, resulted in this new, finely tuned, varmint cartridge. The 19 BADGER is a compact, powerful cartridge with a mere overall 1.3" length, built on a strong rimless case. The 19 BADGER maintains a powder capacity of 18 grains in a column of less than 1 inch. Even with a 25% increase in powder capacity over the "sweet shooting" little 19 Calhoon (Hornet), the 19 BADGER has the same minimal recoil that is so critical to good varminting, allowing you to see your hit time after time. The 19 BADGER provides a comfortable 300 yard range and velocities of 3750 with a 27gr bullet and 3550 with the 32gr. (The 4200+ ft/sec gurus, those geniuses behind the 17 Remington and .204 Ruger, would have you think otherwise, but attempts to achieve excessive velocities cause nothing but trouble for varminters!) (http://www.jamescalhoon.com/19caliber.html)

Shooters:

I don't have much experience with coyotes, yet but will soon. I'll be taking them for their fur and have my own thoughts on what I will use based upon my hunting situations and my skill level with my rifle of choice.

With this being said I do have considerable experience in fox hunting and taking them for their fur. I used to hunt them primarily for their fur and I used either a .22LR or .22WMR. I preferred the LR because of less pelt damage. Of all the foxes I have taken I do not recall ever loosing one except one I shot when I was 14 and hunting cottontails with a .410 and should never have taken the shot to begin with.

I have shot them out to 80 yards or so with the .22LR and always dropped them or at least put them down - there. This all took place decades ago before the advent of the new .22 long rifle bullets that we have now. I just used Hi Speed HP's.

In those days I lived on my dad's farm and we mistakenly viewed foxes as varmints because once in a great while they'd take a chicken, duck, or rabbit. Naturally, now I know how wrong we were in not recognizing the fox as a great benefit. So, I'd shoot them in the summer months with a .303 Savage or .22-250. Both did excessive damage to the fur. I expected it with the Savage but not as much with the .22-250. Therefore I didn't use this long range rifle when hunting for fur.

I did use my .22WMR and took fox WITH NO PROBLEM out to 100 yards or so. I used 40 grain solids but they did not have the same knockdown authority as I did the Winchester 40 grain JHP's. Even then I had to do some sewing. Fox hide is very thin and damages easily. As far as range goes I like to get as close as I can. If I don't feel comfortable with the shot, I don't take it.

Sometimes, I'd hunt them with a 12ga. shotgun using high base BB or number 2 shot loads. Even then if you were just a wisker too close you'd end up doing some sewing.

In conclusion I'd have to say that the rifle you choose will have to depend on your hunting style, effectiveness with rifle of choice and intent relative to the disposal of the fox/coyote you may take. I do hope that you use either of these animals as I feel they should not just be killed and left unless they are killed in defense of one's property or livestock.

Your choice to make. Good shooting and enjoy hunting these animals.

Range Finder

POACHERS NOT CARING ABOUT SHOT PLACMENT??? Those that i knew as a kid were expert shots who relied on a .22 for the table meat. See how you shoot when you have one shot to decide weither or not you eat tonight...

As a farm kid we used the .22lr for culling cattle, we had larger guns, but the .22 cleanly penetrated the skulls of even the largest steers. I've seen 2,000 pounds of steer fall to that little crack. I also shot foxes and coons for there pelts while on the farm, used a .243 once, competely destroyed the fox, pelt too, and this was with 100gr ammo.

The poeple that I've talked to still hunting yotes and fox and coon for their skin they are loving the .17hmr, they say that it enters and never leaves, creating one hole. So if your going to shoot them for fun or to get rid of them use your deer rifle, it will keep you in shape for the fall. Or use a .22-250 and watch the fur fly, cause it will.

Called in a coyote this weekend and thumped it with a .35 rem. Just fell over like a sack of dirt and never moved. Surprisingly, not a real big exit hole - certainly not what would have happened with a .22-250 ! :D