Has anyone out there had any experience with a .303 British? I have used my father's rifle since I was small and now he has given it to me. It has peep sights that took some getting use to but I've been shooting it for 17 or so years and can hit what I aim at. This rifle has harvested many deer for me in my younger days. I have never taken this rifle to a range or even tried to see what a group I could get with it. I would like to know how accurate they group with a scope, and any info on a good scope mount. After trying a scope and getting good groups (I hope) I am thinking of a quality aftermarket stock, preferrably something synthetic. The stock on it is just too short. Give me some thoughts people, good or bad! This rifle is a no4 mk1.

I've had several, think i got my first one about 1967.....grouping depends on a lot of things, but most of mine would group around 2.5" or so with a scope, good mounts, good ammo, and a good rest. Some would group very well, others would keyhole at 100 yds. The one i have now will group into 2" with good handloads, and i had a P-14 that would do less than that with most military ammo. Mine also has a synthetic stock, and a B-square mount. It was built to use as a "canoe gun" so it was built with "rugged" in mind as well as accuracy. Hope that helps a bit??

Never been too happy with a scoped Brit.,stock is low and the mounts tend to jack the scope up a good bit, and I find myself not being able to get good face contact (or chin contact) with the stock...could shoot them from a bench, but not so well off the bench. IF I were to scope one again, would also change the stock. Current one is unscoped and will remain that way.

The 2 to 2 1/2" group at 100 yard is about as good as it gets...some very good barrels and creative handloads may break that by a little bit, but not enough to be meaningful.

Round has killed game well for me...issue iron sights and nedium velocity doesn't equate into a long range hunting rifle, but out to 200 yards it works great.

I just finished doing some research to find out what I might do to up-grade my sporterized no4 mk1 and got a lot of help from the guys here on this forum. Of note was the fact that of all the responses I got on this rifle, not a single one of them was negative. Nobody (who bothered to post) had anything bad to say about the SMLE or the .303 cartridge. Now,.... thats gotta be a first! Some of the following might be helpful. You can find a very well built scope mount at Brownells. This mount attaches on the side with no gunsmithing and can be removed and re-installed without loss of zero. It also allows you to keep your open sights. http:www.brownells.com Item #100-000-319 $80 The military stock has a low cheek and doesn't work well with a scope. A synthetic stock with raised cheek piece is available at http:/www.cheaperthandirt.com $70 You can get the same stock from Brownells or Cabelas. Ram-line offers a stock with out the cheek piece. You'll find a very interesting story on the history of the .303cartridge and the Lee/Enfield rifle at http:www.african-hunter.com/.303 british.htm Ballistics of the .303 are on par with the .308 win., slightly less but right in there. It seems the smle rifles are very much alive and well in Canada, Africa and some parts of Europe and are commonly used for hunting. I'm sure you'll be hearing from some of these people right here on this forum (MIKEG comes to mind) If you'ld like to get more info, just type in.303 british in your search engine, theres enough to keep you busy all night! Enjoy........Bill

Well I wasn't going to reply but Bill made me!

I don't have a .303 nor do I recall ever having shot one.

If I did, the stock would have to go..... way too low for me.

As far as effectiveness goes, the answer is in the loading manuals. A bit less 'pep' than a .308 Winchester, as I recall. That's not bad really.

It is an old military battle rifle so for a hunting arm it does have some minor limitations. Not the most graceful thing to scope and as Ribbonstone says, the scope will be WAY high for the issue stock. I have seem some synthetic stocks that look like they'd be good (better anyway) for scope use.

As far as accuracy goes, the question should be more what sort of accuracy can you expect from an old surplus battle rifle, not just the Lee-Enfield? Somewhere between good and terrible.... depending on how it was built and treated over the years.

There have been some interesting articles in Precision Shooting over the years about long-range shooting in England and other ex-British colonies with the .303 and Lee-Enfield rifle. Like anything else there are tricks to the trade and normally the first thing to get replaced is the barrel, wartime tolerances being a bit sloppy at times.

I like old battle rifles (have several mausers) to tinker with, but they're not benchrest guns by any stretch of the imagination.

The .303 has helped a lot of critters (and men) take the big dirt nap over the years, so it is pretty pointless to criticize it. Pretty remarkable really when you consider the basic design predates smokeless powder and it's still going strong. Not that many cartridges can make the same claim.

As I understand it the Brits were planning on phasing it out in the 1930s but WWII got in the way and it was too late at that point to change.

Jack Monteith can probably weigh in with a good bit of experience.

Sorry Mike, I guess I was thinking of Jack M....I've been reading so many current posts by you that you came to mind. Oh well, you were looking for something to do anyhow!........FYI, read a "GUN TESTS" report on a LEE-ENFIELD Ishapore 2A in 7.62 nato. It was manufactured in 1965! That means this rifle had been in production for at least 70 years. They rated it a best buy in surplus bolt rifles. Talk to ya later....Bill

www.african-hunter.com/.303_british.htm. Ballistics of the .303 are on par with the .308 win., slightly less but right in there. It seems the smle rifles are very much alive and well in Canada, Africa and some parts of Europe and are commonly used for hunting. I'm sure you'll be hearing from some of these people right here on this forum (MIKEG comes to mind) If you'ld like to get more info, just type in.303 british in your search engine, theres enough to keep you busy all night! Enjoy........Bill

This is a great site for information - thanks for the link!

Sorry Mike, I guess I was thinking of Jack M....I've been reading so many current posts by you that you came to mind. Oh well, you were looking for something to do anyhow!........FYI, read a "GUN TESTS" report on a LEE-ENFIELD Ishapore 2A in 7.62 nato. It was manufactured in 1965! That means this rifle has been in production for at least 70 years. They rated it a best buy in surplus bolt rifles. Talk to ya later....Bill

Bill, can you be more specific on the 'GUN TESTS' article? Sounds interesting.

Bill, can you be more specific on the 'GUN TESTS' article? Sounds interesting.
Sure Mike....The issue was August, 2001 GUN TESTS. They purchased the ishapore 2A, a No4 Mk1 in .303, a Yugoslavian M48 mauser in 8mm and a Spanish model 1916 mauser in 7.62 nato. All were as issued (military) by the factory, the the only modification being the Spanish mauser being re-chambered from 7X57 to 7.62 nato. All guns were bought from SOG http://www.southernohiogun.com All rifles were cleaned up using hot water to flush the old corosive primer salt out of the bores. They went to the range and had a 'shoot-fest', fireing commercial and FMJ's. The Yugo mauser was recommended don't buy. Reason was trigger was so bad you couldn't shoot accurately with it and poor ammo availablity. Spanish mauser was a don't buy, good trigger but accuracy was the worst of the four rifles tested and they were uncomfortable shooting a re-chambered rifle this old. No4 Mk1 was rated very good, as good as the ishapore, but got a conditional buy only because of poor selection of commercial .303 ammo. Ishapore 2A 7.62 nato was rated best buy . quote "the sample we tested was well made, reliable, inexpensive and chambered in a readily available cartridge." Incidently, the ishapore was not rechambered, it was manufactured in 1965 as a 7.62 nato.
Along these lines, I read recently that the 7.62 nato and .308 winchester is NOT the same, there are differences in brass capacity which can be a concern at times. If anyone is interested, I'll dig that one up to..............Bill

Trying not to flame here... but that test sounds like a complete joke!

Poor ammo availability for the 8mm? I can find at least as much 8mm ammo as .303, if not more. Surplus Turk ammo is not only cheap, it's pretty hot! True, much of the American 8x57 ammo is loaded pretty soft. Still, it's not that far behind the .303, even at very modest pressures (Just chrono'd some Remington and Winchester 8mm softpoints through a 48A Yugo, about 2,200fps with a 170gr. bullet). And full-power ammo is available, you just have to know where to look. Loading your own is the simple answer.

Bad trigger on the Yugo? Yeah, probably. So what, should be simple to fix, it's a Mauser. Aftermarket triggers can be found for maybe $30, I have one that will fit my Swede or 95 Turk, surely the same is available for the more common '98 pattern. If bad triggers disqualified guns, they wouldn't have ANYTHING to review, maybe a Savage Accu-trigger, that's it.

Rebarreled Spanish mauser - so what if it's old? Um, after all, you're buying a USED rifle - it won't be brand new!!!! If it's an action type that is unsuitable for the .308, then fine, they have a valid point. If not... it should not have been rebarreled to that caliber (unfortunately this happens anyway, the Turks rebarreled a lot of 1895 mausers to 8x57, and that probably isn't a good idea for ~50,000CUP loads that the military uses). So that one's up in the air, need more information. Key question, is the 1916 model based on the '98 or an earlier version of the Mauser? If it has the third locking lug on the bolt it should be the equivalent of any '98 pattern as far a strength.

Also - age of the PARTICULAR gun in the test should be considered, not age of the earliest example of the model that is known (if you feel that's important and frankly I think it is somewhat overrated). Example, you can get Swedes from 1896 manufactured through the 1930s, '98 variants from of course 1898 to the present day, and Lee-Enfields, well, I think that they might predate both of the other examples.

Accuracy test on an old military gun? Uh, that's a joke to pick 1 (one) example out of millions made and paint them all with the same brush.

Dollars to donuts, the Enfield is the weakest action of the listed rifles! Not flames, just fact. Rear locking lugs are a problem when you get to 50,000CUP - brass tends to stretch badly. The Yugo 48 is probably the strongest being a '98 mauser variant. Now, strength should not be a problem with factory .303 ammo, since it's loaded to a level suitable for the gun, don't get me wrong.

Not knocking the Enfield, by any stretch.... but I think that their 'test' was pretty poorly designed.

If you want a cheap, strong, shooter in this case the Yugo is the best buy, as you can get the most ammo for the least money and it's by far the strongest gun.

Well, I'll try not to rant any more today..... LOL....

So, Mike, you like the Mausers, huh?

I am going to do a search in this forum for "Michell's Mausers" and see what I come up with. I see the ad so often, I almost want to run right out and buy a "service grade" piece. What can I say, I am a fan of the .32 caliber.

Yeah it's a good design, I think. Heck all rifles are fun - like I said don't get me wrong and think I'm knocking the Lee-Enfield.

Mitchell's is proud of their stuff. If you want original, unissued, collector stuff that might be the place with the best selection.

If you just want something to shoot then I'd say scout the gun shows.

Actually, my thought was a good, "new", nicely turned out rifle to use and pass on. I like the caliber, and like you said - they are proud of their product, so it very likely is "what you pay for".

I might be able to add a bit here....Mike is on the $$, i don't see how ammo availability could be a problem with an 8mm weapon, nor a .303 weapon. Far as the 1916, i have a good friend that graduated from Colorado School of Gunsmithing, according to him, they were not allowed to rechamber any of the small Mausers ('93-'96) due to the inadequate strength of the action (at least not to a high-pressure caliber, i.e .308, etc). Far as the .308 and 7.62 round, the military brass is thicker, so you really need to reduce any loads for a commercial case and work up. Hope that helps a bit...

Thanks for the wealth of information folks! I never figured to raise such a fuss over a .303 British!! You all have been so helpful.

A further thought on the 1916 Mauser -

I looked this up in the Numrich book and yeah, it's basically a 1895 Mauser, without the third bolt lug of the '98.

So - something to keep in mind. Obviously, they work, at least for some period of time. The Spanish military must have proofed them to some degree.

On the other hand, 'long service life' of an infantry weapon in the heat of battle is an oxymoron. If the gun was simple enough for a recruit to use (for a few rounds anyway), reliable enough under battlefield conditions, and sturdy enough to be used as a club when ammo ran out or the gun jammed up, it was certainly good enough.

If it failed on the battlefield - I guarantee you, circumstances would be such that plenty of little-used replacements would be available!

For sporting use, and long-term durability, we'd probably rather have some extra margin of safety built in.

If I had one, I'd certainly keep the loads down from max .308 sporting pressures. Same for the Ishapore.

Thanks for the wealth of information folks! I never figured to raise such a fuss over a .303 British!! You all have been so helpful.

Fuss? Oh no.... you haven't seen anything. Dig up the threads on 'bear defense loads' or .44 mag. vs. .45 Colt if you want to read something entertaining!

Trying not to flame here... but that test sounds like a complete joke!

Poor ammo availability for the 8mm? I can find at least as much 8mm ammo as .303, if not more. Surplus Turk ammo is not only cheap, it's pretty hot! True, much of the American 8x57 ammo is loaded pretty soft. Still, it's not that far behind the .303, even at very modest pressures (Just chrono'd some Remington and Winchester 8mm softpoints through a 48A Yugo, about 2,200fps with a 170gr. bullet). And full-power ammo is available, you just have to know where to look. Loading your own is the simple answer.

Bad trigger on the Yugo? Yeah, probably. So what, should be simple to fix, it's a Mauser. Aftermarket triggers can be found for maybe $30, I have one that will fit my Swede or 95 Turk, surely the same is available for the more common '98 pattern. If bad triggers disqualified guns, they wouldn't have ANYTHING to review, maybe a Savage Accu-trigger, that's it.

Rebarreled Spanish mauser - so what if it's old? Um, after all, you're buying a USED rifle - it won't be brand new!!!! If it's an action type that is unsuitable for the .308, then fine, they have a valid point. If not... it should not have been rebarreled to that caliber (unfortunately this happens anyway, the Turks rebarreled a lot of 1895 mausers to 8x57, and that probably isn't a good idea for ~50,000CUP loads that the military uses). So that one's up in the air, need more information. Key question, is the 1916 model based on the '98 or an earlier version of the Mauser? If it has the third locking lug on the bolt it should be the equivalent of any '98 pattern as far a strength.

Also - age of the PARTICULAR gun in the test should be considered, not age of the earliest example of the model that is known (if you feel that's important and frankly I think it is somewhat overrated). Example, you can get Swedes from 1896 manufactured through the 1930s, '98 variants from of course 1898 to the present day, and Lee-Enfields, well, I think that they might predate both of the other examples.

Accuracy test on an old military gun? Uh, that's a joke to pick 1 (one) example out of millions made and paint them all with the same brush.

Dollars to donuts, the Enfield is the weakest action of the listed rifles! Not flames, just fact. Rear locking lugs are a problem when you get to 50,000CUP - brass tends to stretch badly. The Yugo 48 is probably the strongest being a '98 mauser variant. Now, strength should not be a problem with factory .303 ammo, since it's loaded to a level suitable for the gun, don't get me wrong.

Not knocking the Enfield, by any stretch.... but I think that their 'test' was pretty poorly designed.

If you want a cheap, strong, shooter in this case the Yugo is the best buy, as you can get the most ammo for the least money and it's by far the strongest gun.

Well, I'll try not to rant any more today..... LOL....
MIKE! MIKE! MIKE!!....take a deep breath!...the man just asked me to give him more info from that particular article and so I did! Jeeesshh! I think the objective was to determine, for the money, what was the best all around shooter, ammo availabilty being a facter and the good 'ol boys at GUN TESTS picked the 2A. I strongly suggest you don't bother getting a subscription to GUN TEST unless your running short on paper to start your fireplace with! See ya...Bill

Bill - sorry!

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

You certainly didn't do anything wrong!!!

Bill - sorry!

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent.

You certainly didn't do anything wrong!!!
...it's all part of the fun! If you know your right, or believe you are, then stand up and say so! Right?

If ugly doesn't bother you, then the M-38 / M-44 Russians work well...shoot better than they look (which they'd just about have to as they are so ugly) and ammo is decently cheap.

On the other hand, like the .303Brit...like them fine in military trim. Are stronger tahn they need to be for the round they shoot. Simple as a rock, easy to maintain, and once you learn the drill, very rapid bolt manipulators.

One point, the Spanish rifle was not a 7.62NATO. That may be what they were sold as, but they were 7.62CETME. Same cartridge dimensionally, but the CETME spec is only for 48,000cup. This is the same cartridge the Spanish used for their version of the G3s. I shot both in Constantina Spain in 63.

Steven

If ugly doesn't bother you, then the M-38 / M-44 Russians work well...shoot better than they look (which they'd just about have to as they are so ugly) and ammo is decently cheap.

On the other hand, like the .303Brit...like them fine in military trim. Are stronger tahn they need to be for the round they shoot. Simple as a rock, easy to maintain, and once you learn the drill, very rapid bolt manipulators.
I have a M-44, talk about a sturdy rifle! I think you could use it to pry a stuck tractor out of the mud without damaging it! You sure don't want to shoot it without hearing protection though..oowww!

The No. 4 Mk 1's shoot well by and large.
I have a Mk 2 and it will hold 2 inches with aperture (target) sights at 100m.
The thing to watch with them is variation in groove and bore diameters. The groove can run from .309 to .317 which makes for fun trying to find bullets to fit properly. Mostly they will be .311-.313 though.
My Mk 2 is fussy with neck tension. It likes a tight neck and a good stout crimp then shoots like a house on fire. Loves SKS weight (123gr) bullets.
More deer have been shot in New Zealand with the .303 than anything else. In the days of culling the herds is was nothing for the government shooters to carry 150 rounds for the day and come back dry with 100+ tails! TURE.
Re using a scope; the guys are right - comb is WAY too low. I have built mine up for scope using.
Is it fully wooded still? They take a bit of plauing with in terms of barrel pressure points etc too. Just trial and error.
cheers
Jeff

This will probably fall on deaf ears...but so long as you are using the iron, may as well use the big slow heavy bullets. Easiest to get it the Sierra 180, but there are some custom makers putting ut 215's as well. Know it goes against the high BC/ long range trend in rifles today...but so long as you are shooting iron and limiting the shots to 200 yards, found the big dumb heavy bullets do a great job.

----
"Dumb": they don't do tricks, shed front cores and keep back ones, have brightly colored plastic tips, come in different colored coatings (like flavors at and icecream shop), H-cores, weakening cuts, strenthening belts, or fling pedals of jackete material like broken radiator fan blades...they just slowly expand, keep on a straight line, and come out the other side.

This will probably fall on deaf ears...but so long as you are using the iron, may as well use the big slow heavy bullets. Easiest to get it the Sierra 180, but there are some custom makers putting ut 215's as well. Know it goes against the high BC/ long range trend in rifles today...but so long as you are shooting iron and limiting the shots to 200 yards, found the big dumb heavy bullets do a great job.

----
"Dumb"[bullits]: they don't do tricks, shed front cores and keep back ones, have brightly colored plastic tips, come in different colored coatings (like flavors at and icecream shop), H-cores, weakening cuts, strenthening belts, or fling pedals of jackete material like broken radiator fan blades...they just slowly expand, keep on a straight line, and come out the other side.
Yeah...welcome to the new millenium. Before long you'll have to have an engineering degree to select a bullit. The search for the "latest and the greatest" goes on....

The No. 4 Mk 1's shoot well by and large.
I have a Mk 2 and it will hold 2 inches with aperture (target) sights at 100m.
The thing to watch with them is variation in groove and bore diameters. The groove can run from .309 to .317 which makes for fun trying to find bullets to fit properly. Mostly they will be .311-.313 though.
My Mk 2 is fussy with neck tension. It likes a tight neck and a good stout crimp then shoots like a house on fire. Loves SKS weight (123gr) bullets.
More deer have been shot in New Zealand with the .303 than anything else. In the days of culling the herds is was nothing for the government shooters to carry 150 rounds for the day and come back dry with 100+ tails! TURE.
Re using a scope; the guys are right - comb is WAY too low. I have built mine up for scope using.
Is it fully wooded still? They take a bit of plauing with in terms of barrel pressure points etc too. Just trial and error.
cheers
Jeff

The wood that originally surrounded the barrel was removed years ago by one of my dad's friends. Sporterized I think it's called. I would love a different stock though, and looked one up on cheaperthandirt.com and may just get it!

[QUOTE=ribbonstone]This will probably fall on deaf ears...but so long as you are using the iron, may as well use the big slow heavy bullets. Easiest to get it the Sierra 180, but there are some custom makers putting ut 215's as well. Know it goes against the high BC/ long range trend in rifles today...but so long as you are shooting iron and limiting the shots to 200 yards, found the big dumb heavy bullets do a great job.

----
I do like 180 grainers. The winchester silvertips have always performed well, but with ammo around 18-20 per box I may try a bit of reloading just so I can shoot it more. To be honest, I haven't even fired it for two or three years. But I recently was cleaning my three rifles and one shotgun and thought "I need to fire you more". Think that's just what I'll do!

I might be wrong, but I think the Ishapore rifles are No. 1 Mk. IIIs and not the best for the .308 Winchester. The No. 4s were routinely converted to .308 in the late `50s and 60s and held their own against the front lug bolt guns for longer than most people think. The late great Gale McMillan was embarrassed when one of his customers wanted a rifle to beat the No.4s in completion and told the customer it was free if it couldn't beat them. It cost him. The sniper rifles tuned by Holland & Holland and those "regulated by Fulton" probably could still beat the off the shelf Remingchester. Of course they were in a different class than the average overbore issued to the average Tommie.

I've got a wood Monte Carlo on mine that's high enough for scope use, and long enough to keep my thumb away from my nose. Bought it a long time ago and I don't know if anything like it is available now.

My scope mount is as low as possible. There's a plate that replaces the rear sight with a Weaver #28 base on it and a #48 base on the receiver ring. The plate is milled out for bolt guide rib clearance and I don't know where you'd find one nowadays either. If anyone want the dimensions I'll measure it up.

Here's a good site. http://www.303british.com/

Bye
Jack

The 303's 180gr. loads have gone the way of the 405gr. 45/70 and 220gr. 30-06 loads loads (and the long gone 215gr. .303's were pretty good loads as well)...still listed, but hard to find anyone that stocks them becasue the demand is for ligher and faster 150's.

Reload.

I might be wrong, but I think the Ishapore rifles are No. 1 Mk. IIIs and not the best for the .308 Winchester. The No. 4s were routinely converted to .308 in the late `50s and 60s and held their own against the front lug bolt guns for longer than most people think. The late great Gale McMillan was embarrassed when one of his customers wanted a rifle to beat the No.4s in completion and told the customer it was free if it couldn't beat them. It cost him. The sniper rifles tuned by Holland & Holland and those "regulated by Fulton" probably could still beat the off the shelf Remingchester. Of course they were in a different class than the average overbore issued to the average Tommie.

I've got a wood Monte Carlo on mine that's high enough for scope use, and long enough to keep my thumb away from my nose. Bought it a long time ago and I don't know if anything like it is available now.

My scope mount is as low as possible. There's a plate that replaces the rear sight with a Weaver #28 base on it and a #48 base on the receiver ring. The plate is milled out for bolt guide rib clearance and I don't know where you'd find one nowadays either. If anyone want the dimensions I'll measure it up.

Here's a good site. http://www.303british.com/

Bye
Jack
Hello Jack...the article in question came from GUN TESTS magazine. They reported that they tested an ishopore 2A made in 1965 at the facility in India originally chambered (not re-chambered) in 7.62 NATO. The credibility of this report has been placed in doubt by MIKE G (see post #10, 16 & 18 this thread). All I know is, I don't write 'em, I just read 'em! But I sure like talking to you guys....!

The 303's 180gr. loads have gone the way of the 405gr. 45/70 and 220gr. 30-06 loads loads (and the long gone 215gr. .303's were pretty good loads as well)...still listed, but hard to find anyone that stocks them becasue the demand is for ligher and faster 150's.

Reload.

I looked for 215 grain bullets at cheaperthandirt but no luck. That is what I would like to reload. In East Texas the longest shot you'll probably get is 100 yards. Lots of brush where I hunt, and I'm not too concerned with the speed. I have a .270 that will take care of that! But seriously folks, if anyone knows a site where you can find 215 grain bullets let me know. I would really like to try them.

Things weren't always pukka at Ishapore.

Hawk makes a 215 grainer and Steve at www.303british.com is working on a 200 grainer.
http://www.hawkbullets.com/P-LIST.htm

Bye
Jack

Hi
Want to try a neat trick
Remove your .303 bolt (unsporterised stock) and bring it up to a comfortable shooting position with your eyes closed. Once you are really comfortable, open your your eyes - 10 to 1 you are looking right up the barrel, your line of sight nearly 2 inches below the original fitted sights - no prizes to the stock designer here.

Other than this little problem, which is easily corrected with an after market stock, the .303 is a winner for hunting. Has probably killed more game in Africa than any other cartridge (other than, maybe the dear old AK 47, the pochers friend). Shortly after WW2 I am pretty sure that every house in South Africa which housed a hunter/shooter had at least one. Some sportsmen, who had forgotten to read the ballistic manuals, and so did not know that it was impossible, even killed elephant and Buffalo with it, while commercial hunters used it for cropping these animals routinely, because that was what they had. Please note, I am not advocating use of the .303 on Buffalo and elephant (I have read the ballistic manuals :D ). Did, at one stage, get some bad press as a wounder, but that was due to the use of ex military FMJ on big game - zipped straight through with minimal damage.

I would say that, in Africa, the .303 is adequate for everything up to Eland with appropriate bullets(i.e. no Giraffe, Ele's, buffs, rhino or lions). Many many many leopards have eaten their last sheep/goat/calf thanks to the .303.

As a bush cartridge with heavy bullets (215 gr) I would rate as close to ideal, while in the open i would say that with mid range bullets (180 gr :D - my idea of mid range) you will be ok to 250 metres (I have taken bushbuck, bushpig and duiker at these ranges).

The .303 popularity took a few body blows due to our Government changing the service cartridge (why buy a cheap rifle when ammo is costly when you can buy a mid range rifle and ammo is "free" ;) ), but it carries on taking game year after year. My .303 (not sure of the mark, etc) has been spoterised, but sports a very old v site that still seems to do the job. I want to fit a scope shortly, and will probably have to get a new butt, as it will be way too low.

The somchem (SA powder manafacturer) rates the .303 as being only 50 fps behind the .308 win - If game can tell the difference, they are not saying.

If at all possible, try and get your hands on some of our local manafacturers .303 loads, they are really good stuff. It is marketed over there, but maybe under a different name. Locally it is branded PMP (Pretoria Metal Pressings).

If any one is interested in articles on the .303, wether historic, sporterising, ballistics etc, our local gun rag, Magnum, has run many articles over the years, and I will be happy to scan and mail them. Drop me a line.
Cheers

[QUOTE=Rodders]Hi
Want to try a neat trick
Remove your .303 bolt (unsporterised stock) and bring it up to a comfortable shooting position with your eyes closed. Once you are really comfortable, open your your eyes - 10 to 1 you are looking right up the barrel, your line of sight nearly 2 inches below the original fitted sights - no prizes to the stock designer here.

Apparently Hornady makes a light magnum 303 with quite impressive ballistics supposedly equal to 308 Winchester! I'll bet they're expensive. Gonna get some of those 215's ordered, so thanks Jack!! Now listen, on reloading, how long will the cases last? Because of loose tolerances, I've heard brass only lasts 5-6 shots and splits. What about neck sizing only, such as in a lee classic loader die? Will this help the brass?? Guess what Rodders? Never tried your trick before but you are right, I'm looking straight down the barrel!!! ;)

Ok folks, I've found a stock I'm thinking about (thanks to one of the posts!) and was wondering if a gunsmith had to install this? I don't wanna mess something up!! If you decide you don't like the new stock one day, can the old still be attached? I kinda like the one at cheaperthandirt.com by Advanced Technology. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?dept%5Fid=123701&sku=MCZ%2D300&imgid=&mscssid=P4HHJ444904M8KQ93RHPP951SJJXFWVF

Wish the picture was a bit larger though. I found somewhere on the web a while back a site that made stocks. They had this 303 british equipped with a BEAUTIFUL black walnut stock, had it all polished and blued. It's more than I'd spend though.

If Cheaper than Dirt sells it, it isn't very complicated, I can assure you!

I've seen the aftermarket stocks. Should be simple enough to remove the wood and install, unless I'm missing something obscure.

The Hornady Light Magnum ammo for the .303 makes it an interesting proposition. I read in one of the stories about Hornady that Steve Hornady is a .303 fan and insisted on having that in the "Light Magnum" lineup.

Rodders, it might interest you to know that we can get quite a bit of PMP ammo here. Saw it for a long time before I knew where it was from.

My Brother customized what I believe was a MK3 some years ago. He built the stock from Rhodesian Teak (an old railway sleeper). I hope the picture is attached, I tried my best.
After years of nagging he sold me this rifle & I developed a handload for it, a 150gr Hornady Interlock bullet @ 2600fps, if memory serves me right.
The rifle grouped consistently into 2 inches @ 100 yards.
I have hunted several Impala, Blesbuck, Warthog and Springbuck with it & it performed flawlessly. All were 1 shot kills, some out to 200 yards & recoil was quite minimal as a bonus.
I gave the rifle to my youngest Brother when I immigrated from South Africa to Canada. It is still in the family.
I am seriously thinking of customizing one for myself, I think it will make a great deer rifle here in Alberta.

I don't remember who makes the stock on mine (synthetic w/raised comb, very comfortable), believe its a Choate. At any rate, i had a devil of a time getting the forestock on, IIRC it wouldn't fit over the bottom of the receiver and i had to heat it to get it to go. Once on, though, it fits well, and puts my chin in proper alignment. Friend of mine had the same experience with his. I'll check mine tonight and post the manufacturer asap.

yychunter ,

That's a very handsome rifle. Now if I could just work on mine. Think I'll go with a synthetic still though. The barrel is black and it would more match. Is that a 2 piece stock?? Sure looks fine.

hatch,

Thanks, I would appreciate any info on different stocks. I was just cleaning the devil out of my 303 when another question arrived: How do you take off the stock?? The part that goes against the shoulder, that is. Forearm comes off easily, but it has another bolt holding the barrel at end of forearm. This kinda goes against the "free float barrel" and could affect accuracy some right? Does the aftermarkets use this additional bolt? Anyways there's no screw that I see holding the stock on. And I don't want to break it.

Well, I think I've found the answer to the buttstock question. You have to open the little door on the buttplate and loosen a bolt there. Looks like trouble for me, mine's kinda rough lookin on the buttplate.

My Brother customized what I believe was a MK3 some years ago. He built the stock from Rhodesian Teak (an old railway sleeper). I hope the picture is attached, I tried my best.
After years of nagging he sold me this rifle & I developed a handload for it, a 150gr Hornady Interlock bullet @ 2600fps, if memory serves me right.
The rifle grouped consistently into 2 inches @ 100 yards.
I have hunted several Impala, Blesbuck, Warthog and Springbuck with it & it performed flawlessly. All were 1 shot kills, some out to 200 yards & recoil was quite minimal as a bonus.
I gave the rifle to my youngest Brother when I immigrated from South Africa to Canada. It is still in the family.
I am seriously thinking of customizing one for myself, I think it will make a great deer rifle here in Alberta.
Saw the picture..very nice...I,ve been searching for a wood sporting stock with raised cheek piece for my sporterized N04 Mk1 but all I can find is synthetic. Not enough demand here in States, I guess..........

Yup, bolt thru the butt stock. Use a long standard screwdriver (at least, that's what's in mine), and tighten the replacement well. IIRC the "book" called for four pounds of forearm tension on the front of the barrel. I really haven't messed with mine in awhile, so i'll hafta look at it and reply. If you like, i can e-mail you over the w/e??

Save yourself some grief...wrap tape around the shank of that long screw driver, about 2" back from the tip. Not too tight, but want the tape to kind of self-center the screwdriver in the stock. Better to find a long 1/4" square shaft screw driver...if worst comes to worst, can put a 1/4" crecent wrench on the shaft.

(The screwdriver I had was just a bit too short to do the job...rather than buy another one, melted the plastic handle off andsliped a socket over the hex-shaped shaft and ran it with a scoket driver).

Brass life:
Depends on the rifle, but most have pretty long/sloppy chambers...this isn't headspace, it's a rimmed case and the rim sets the headspce.

Are some with reasonably close cut chambers...few...most are cut sloppy becasue (1) even green crusty ammo coated in filth may have to be chambered and fired (2) reloading wasn't on their minds.

Minimal resizing extends case life...but it still can be pretty short. Curren .303 has a tight (for a .303) chamber, and I've not noticed any differnce in case life between it and your typical 30-30. Others in teh past ejected a case that looked like the shoulder moved forward a full 1/4" (and had increased diameter). With the sloppy chambered rifle, cases were retiured to light plinking duty after 4 full cahrged reloads.

Yup, bolt thru the butt stock. Use a long standard screwdriver (at least, that's what's in mine), and tighten the replacement well. IIRC the "book" called for four pounds of forearm tension on the front of the barrel. I really haven't messed with mine in awhile, so i'll hafta look at it and reply. If you like, i can e-mail you over the w/e??

unclebygrabs@yahoo.com

Mail anytime. I will send you a pic of mine. The two screws that hold the buttplate on are rusted, and that little latch looks impossible to open. Maybe time for the ole saw?????

Since i can't see it, not sure why it looks impossible to open, but i'd save the saw as a last resort if possible. If its beat up around it, possibly you could file or sand it to where it would open? Or drill the heads off the screws? I just hate to ruin anything if i can find a way around it.......and the screwdriver that i use is a Craftsman that's about 1/2" across, so it centers itself pretty well, and has a blade about 14" long. Will e-mail you now.


OK, Saturday. My stock is an Advanced Technology, available from Brownells. Their # is 019-210-004 for the #4. Cost is about $70. Hope that helps a bit?

The Lee Enfield's were made with 3 different stock lengths. You could install a pad on your gun as an inexpensive fix. Or get another issue stock, preferably from someone that knows about the 3 different lengths, and use it as is, or use it to install the pad on to keep your original stock if you wanted to save it.

I shot an Ishapore 303 once, 100 yds over the truck hood, mixed surplus ammo. Under 2" group. Should have bought that one. Seems like most of them with decent bores will do 4" with Ball ammo and iron sights.