I need some advise on building a laminated stock blank.
I work in a woodshop & have a range of equipment at my disposal. I want to make my own laminated stock as the basis for my first experiment at custom stock building.
Here's the plan.
Use quarter inch layers of walnut, in different shades, layered with the grain direction in alternate directions.
Laminate with Epidermix epoxy resin and build up 2 layers at a time in a press.
Does this sound o.k.?
Should I use a different epoxy resin?
Should I apply light pressure to retain a positive film of resin in between layers or should I press the daylights out of it to get the resin film as thin as possible?
Should I rather use a good quality wood glue which is water resistant and press the daylights out of the laminations to get the tightest bond?
Any advise on this subject will be greatly appreciated.

yychunter, I have thought about doing this myself, I use to work in a couple of cabinet shops. I was going to cut the walnut about 3/8" thick , then run through a sander planer. to get 1/4" layers, then stain several different colors. then glue all the layers up at the same time using a high quality marine epoxy.
Wrap the laminates in wax paper, then tighten evenly with clamps with moderate pressure, you know you will want a good even layer of glue between each wood layer. this should all cure in 24 hours, just do not let it get too cold. as what the directions call for.
then start whitteling.
good luck, John

I watched this being done on TV a few weeks ago. The mill that makes the laminated blanks for all the big gun makers puts the sections under tons of pressure, to make sure they have no airbubbles, and that they have 100% contact between layers. You'll need a really big vise to copy this...

i read an article on how laminated stocks are made (American Rifleman i think, years ago). i'm gonna go as close as i remember, but some or all of this may be wrong.
the layers to be used are peeled off the log like a paper towel with a huge knife of some sort with the log in a lathe (i bet plywood layers are done this way, too). i think 1/8" is the thickness green. the sheets are covered with glue and stacked in a machine that applies tons of pressure until the glue sets up. i think the grain does not alternate like plywood.
there may have been vacuume and pressure involved to force the glue into the wood layers but this is even fuzzier than the rest. take this with a grain of salt, because it's been at least 10 years since i've read the article, but i tried to bring as much as i can back.

Remembering my woodshop classes from many, many years ago, we used to make laminated wood to produce wooden bowls and furniture. Just plain ol' wood glue and various layers of maple and walnut were used, along with woodworkers clamps. Can't say any of this was used outdoors, but we sure made some pretty stuff for Mom!

From what I have seen, Monty is really close on this. I did not remember the sheets being 1/8" thin though, maybe.
If you do a search on laminated stocks, most layers are usually 3/16" -1/4" thick. I have seen some of the custom benchrest stocks look as if they had 100 layers though. But I also beleive they were resin injected.
The very high pressure Monty mentioned is not necessary for a stock. But then overkill is overrated.
If you use several good clamps spread out every few inches, with a good stout pressure it will work fine.
I have made cabinet quality laminates.

good luck, John

Thanks for all the input so far, it seems there are no hard and fast rules here.
I have a gunsmithing book written by John Traister, I think?
In the section on stockwork he dedicates quite a bit of space to the selection of wood, but not that much on lamination.
He suggests that you use quarter inch layers in alternating grain directions if you use walnut only.
However, if you use different species of wood, he suggests that you go down in thickness, even down to layers of a sixteenth of an inch.
I suspect the unitary use of walnut gives a stable enough medium for the job.
Probably, when multiple species are used you need more layers to give the desired level of stability, hence the thinner layers.
The issue of glue versus epoxy seems more illusive.
Epoxy should provide a stronger bond, but you need a more positive film in between layers. This can have an affect on the quality of the final finish, with visible glue lines?
This also means that you should not clamp an epoxy job with tons of pressure, or you will not retain enough of a positive bond.
Glue can be clamped a lot firmer, as you don't need as much of a positive layer of glue, but, I suspect glue might not give you the same level of water and solvent resistance as epoxy, which is the other critical factor to be taken into account.
If you can find the right glue with proper water and solvent resistant properties, I suspect you will have a great solution.
I have access to a hot oil hydraulic press, used for pressing wood veneer onto particle board. This combines a hot process for proper curing with tons of pressure, which would seem ideal.
So, any suggestions on a good glue, maybe some marine type of glue will work fine?
Thanks,
yychunter

i'm thinking that if you use epoxy, you might want to use thinner layers. the epoxy layers between the wood will probably be harder, and after sanding may leave high spots where the wood sanded down more than the epoxy. this would be minimized with thinner layers.
another thought: if you go with the thicker layers, do an odd number so the holes through the stock for the action screws will go through the wood and not a glue layer that may be hard to drill true, and minimize stress on a joint.
epoxy, and i'd assume wood glue, can be dyed to approximantly the color of the wood so the glue lines blend in somewhat.
epoxy might be better clamped, as you say, because it can take up to 24 hours to set (a press may not maintain steady pressure that long). i think the main reason for huge pressure is to force glue into the wood for a more dense stock that might resist moisture and warping. i dunno.
if you've thought of all this, i apologise. i'm just babbling.

monty

Worked all one winter on a Herter's walnut/walnut semi-inletted and rough formed laminated stock for a customized '03A3. One of the tougher jobs I ever assigned to me.

The comment about the epoxy being harder than the wood is 100% dead on. The Herter's laminates were about the thickness of the ones used on the Ruger laminated stocks, so there was about equal epoxy and wood to work on.

There are many pitfalls in this project that will render a lot of work useless. It may be just better to buy a blank from a maker and go from there. Most of the laminated stocks I've used and seen use about 1/16" sheets alternated grain direction (this gives the stock stability in all directions). The process exact proceedure is vague after all these years but high pressure and vacuum are part of the process. The vacuum helps draw the resin into the wood pores and that is the reason laminate stocks are heavier than there counterparts. You cannot believe how much air space is in things until you see one of these process in action. It also accounts for the faster dulling of cutting tools when working with them.

I have a Winchester M70 with a wintuff laminated stock, and since this post has drawn the attention of people who are knowledgeable about laminate stocks, i was wondering if i could give the barrel a little free float from the stock, it seems to be really tight in some spots and looser in others, is this a good idea or a bad idea, or doesn;t it make much difference?

Why don't you just contact the manufacturer?

Rutland Plywood, located in Vermont, supplies most of the world's laminate gunstock blanks.

Jb,does the bbl actually touch the bbl, Yes it does make a difference. If it does then contact winchester, see what they will do about it. If they do not want to do anything then go ahead and free float the barrel, it is not hard and it does not take long to do.
Just go slow and easy, considering you know how to, if not, ask and plenty of people will be reasdy to help.

John

I cant run a thin piece of paper between the barrel and stock. i will talk to winchester and see what they suggest

I always want to be able to run a thin business card between the bbl and the stock freely, otherwise there is work to do.

many factory stocks have a built-in pressure point at the muzzle end of the barrel channel. light sporter barrels may shoot better with this, while heavy varmint or bull barrels usually like to be free floated. part of tuning a rifle usually involves adding several layers of business card and shooting to see if accuracy suffers or improves. each rifle reacts differently, and the pressure point gives another option for accurizing.

monty

I will e-mail you a picture of my laminated stock. It is of redwood and is laminated with carbon fiber cloth between each lamination. It is very stiff and light. I do not know how to post a picture on a forum. Mine was vacuum bagged instead of clamped to keep out uneven stress. Mine is a benchrest stock. It weighs 23.5 oz. with the bedding and finish. I am working on a walnut laminated stock for my 13.5# gun. It will be made the same way. If anybody would like an e-mail picture, send me your address. Butch