Howdy,

I just bought an old Marlin-made .30-30Win lever action (Model 336). It shoots OK, but the first shot is always a little to the right and a couple of inched high (like 6 inches at 100 yards). Subsequent shots are all close together where I think they should be.

Same story whether I clean the gun inbetween shooting the groups or not. As long as I give the gun time to cool off, this happens. I'm thinking it is a temperature thing, but it wasn't THAT cold today... only about 60F or so. I'm using factory 150gr Remington Soft Core-Lokt Ammo.

My question is: how common is it to find THIS much of a difference? Anyone have experience with if this can be frequently corrected by changing the ammo?

Thanks,
KJ

This is the opposite of what most of my levers try to pull on me. Usually my first shot is pretty good, then the shots "walk" off as the barrel heats up. 6 inches is quite a spread from the first, cold shot to the second. Try a couple of different loads, Winchester and Remington 170 gr. come to mind. If the spread doesn't decrease, you can try a couple of different things. First, you can adjust the sights to split the difference between the shots. Or you could try tweaking the fore end bedding and see if that helps. By the way, are you using the factory blade type rear sight?? Some of those are kinda tough to shoot accurately at long range (100 yards with open sights is a long way for me). I use williams peep sights on my lever actions. ==Bob

I'd personally try shooting it with the forend and magazine tube off of the gun, with the front of the receiver on sandbags.

That will tell you right away if it's a problem with the mag tube/forend which can have quite an influence on the accuracy of the gun.

My 1951 Marlin 336-A did this but to the left. It just needed to be cleaned really good. It took six days of scrubbing and soaking to get it absolutely clean. Now it shoots about a 1/2" 5-shot group at 100 yards.

I had thought about getting rid of it because this first shot high tendancy had cost me a nice hog... I just never knew where that first shot was going. It shoots so good that after hunting season I sent it back to Marlin to be be reblued and have the stocks refurbished (oil finish) with a note not to touch the chamber or bore.

MikeG gives good advice...that is the best way to isolate a problem.

May also take a look at the butt stock...if it's just a bit loose, you'll get a flier on the first round as it seats itself. After the frist round, it usally stays seated until jiggled reloading/jiggling around off the bench.

One other place to look...the fit of the magazine tube at the reciever often binds on the breech of the barrel rather heavlily...that normally shows up only as the barrel heats up, but it's worth a look while you have to forend wood off.

OF course, if the barrel is clean/wet or even just clean, the first round won't often go where you point it.

Howdy,

First, let me thank everyone for the advice. I'm going to try and address everything in this one post. As an FYI, I got so bothered at the gun, that I cussed it and put it down. The friend I was with picked it up and shot a couple of 3-round groups with it over the next hour or so. She got the exact same results that I was getting. (The gun was cleaned thouroghly before I ever shot it and as soon as we get home from the range. A fouling shot or not didn't seem to affect the accuracy of that first round of ammo.)

I got the gun recently. It came with a scope mounted on see-thru mounts. I don't think it is a scope problem because it only happened on the first shot even in I shake the gun up between the first and second shot unless I gave it plenty of time to "cool down." It happened at 50 yards with open sites and at 100 yards using the mounted scope. I didn't even try 100 yards with open sites since I knew it was happening at 50 and those sites ARE hard to see in the best of conditions. I'm not sure how accurate I would be with them in the shade of that scope at 100 yards.

So, it looks like this forend and tube mag might never have been taken off since this gun was built 30 years ago. I KNEW it was going to be a heck of a problem getting those screws lose, so I did it at home. Once they were finally disassembled (and everything looks good), I re-assembled the gun and brought it to the range yesterday. I picked up some 170gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts and some 170gr Win Power-Point to see if they reacted any differently. I figured that would give me a rough idea of what type of differences that I should expoect to see (and then come back with more ammo types if necessary).

Yesterday was probably 30 degrees F colder than it was the first time. VERY windy, so I had to steady and shoot between the stronger gusts....lol. Off and on light rain, too. First, I fired 3 shots with each ammo type (including the 150gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts that had the major problems the last trip). BUT, this time I braced the gun on the receiver. The 150sgrouped about where the first shot went last time with no big outliers. The two 170gr brands both grouped fairly well with no outliers, too. Hmmmmmm. Because those results were so promising I ended up not even shooting the gun with the forend, etc. taken off yesterday. I did the same procedure over again with the same results. Next, I fired 5 shots of each type of ammo back to back with no rest period to see how it reacted as the barrel got warmer and warmer. The ammo did walk around a little bit, but not depressingly so. For example, the center of the 170gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts group (which was fired last in the hottest barrel) was only about 1.5" lower than the center of the 3-round group from a cold barrel. I can live with that.

Next, I braced the gun by the forend on a padded wooden rest and held the forend. This is similar to what I would do while hunting from a stand, next to a tree, or holding a walking stick. I checked each type of ammo like above (except I did NOT repeat the 5-shot fast group testing). The center of each group did move a little bit and the groups DID open up a little bit (but it was MUCH windier by this time, too). The 150gr ammo openned up more than the 170gr ammo. The 170gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts seemd to perform the best with the least change in group placement and group size as I checked it against cold and warm barrel and braced on receiver versus forend.

In conclusion, the gun seems to handle the 170gr slightly better, but even the 150gr behaved properly this trip to the range. The question to me is "why?" Was it because the ambient temps were cooler? If so, a warmer outing should give me bad results again. OR was it because the barrel was "pinched" or something, and I releaved that problem when I broke it down and put it back together? If so, I guess the problem will be fixed now???

Any other ideas? And THANKS for the other suggestions!
KJ

Sounds like a heat issue more than anything else...at least you're not getting that first round flier. Every 2-piece stoick I've ever worked with ahd preferecnes about hwere that stock was rested...some do like the bag right up against the reciever. Your guess as good as mine as to why.

If you are going to hunt with the rifle, probably best to sight it in hand-held (still use the rest, but the only thing in contact is your hand on top of the bag.

Are a bunch of cuts, dovetails, and "crap" hanging off the barrel..barrel will heat and expand, changing the stresses from the things attafched to it. Isn't much you can do about the metal work, but can try to make the wood as even-bearing as possible.

One other trick: the magazine load. Are you shooting by fully loading the magazine tube and shooting your groups...not much, but some lever guns resent the changing weight and the vaiable spring tension. Just for fun, next time out, try two things:
1. Load 4 in the mag, Each time you fire a round, load another in the tube, to keep it constantly at 4 rounds.
2. Empty magazine...load each shot driectly indto the chamber.

Seldom makes a difference...but it does once in a great while (only could proove it on a friends .219Zipper...it wanted an empty magazine).
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Dump the see through mounts as soon as you can...hate those things, have had too many of them that would shift and loosen.

> If you are going to hunt with the rifle, probably best to sight it in hand-held (still use the rest, but the only thing in contact is your hand on top of the bag.

That's what I was going to do. I think I'll re-site it in for 170gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts. That's what I want to shoot with that gun as soon as I take the scope off, anyway. Works for me.

> Are a bunch of cuts, dovetails, and "crap" hanging off the barrel..barrel will heat and expand, changing the stresses from the things attafched to it. Isn't much you can do about the metal work, but can try to make the wood as even-bearing as possible.

Doh! I forgot to mention that, didn't I? There are a lot of pits on the external portion of the barrel - especially near the receiver and next to the wood portion of the forend. I figured that was why the heating up affected the thot placement so much. That was my guess anyway, but I guess I forgot to mention it.

> One other trick: the magazine load. Are you shooting by fully loading the magazine tube and shooting your groups...not much, but some lever guns resent the changing weight and the vaiable spring tension. Just for fun, next time out, try two things:

That thought never even crossed my mind. The last trip, I loaded them one at a time. The first trip, I THINK I usually loaded three and fired three. My friend loaded them on at a time, though, so maybe this isn't going to make a difference. Still, I need to do a direct comparison of full magazine versus empty magazine on my next trip to the range.

> Dump the see through mounts as soon as you can...hate those things, have had too many of them that would shift and loosen.

Actually, I plan to take the scope off and use it as a brush gun (less than 100 yards in this area) like I do with my Win94. I'm jusyt leaving the scope on until I work out the bugs. It is a LOT easier for me to make sure the gun is shooting correctly with a scope than with open sights....

Since it will be a brush gun, I don't mind a few inches of walk - as long as it easliy stays in the kill-zone of a small hog or deer - but what I was seeing was WAY too much.

Soooo, I plan to take it back out with a couple of boxes of 170gr Rem Soft Core-Lokts, hold it just in my hands with a full magazine, and then see how it shoots. I want it to be a little bit of a warmer day, too.
Thanks,
KJ