I have seen on other forums reccomendations to use egg carton foam waffers or granulated styrofoam material to protect the cast bullet base and prevent leading. Any comments or suggestions out there?? I'm shooting fairly stiff .45-70 loads with the lee 340 grain bullet cast from wheelweights and linotype alloy. I have not chronoed the load and don't have the data at hand. I plan to use this load for paper punching and possibly white tail deer. I plan to order a wad cutting punch in the near future. Any reccomendations? Should i go to straight linotype??

Thanks Tom

tom barthel
I don't shoot 45-70 but I've been using cornmeal in my 454 Casull to shot plain base 255 gr swc loads.
Seems to protect the base and cut down the leading I was getting with normal loads and the accuarcy definately improved! Instaed of 34 gr of W296 I reduced it to 30.0 with 3 grs of cornmeal under the bullet-this is a slighly compressed load which gives me 1877 FPS out of my Rossi Levergun I haven't shot any out of my SRH yet, but expect the same result in it as well.
Now if your filling the case on your 45-70 with the powder you use you could tinker with the load to get it to work with cornmeal or such to help out with the leading problem . It seems to work for me.

GunNut...That is fascinating. I am going to try that with my Rossi. I had some cheapo 255's going so fast that they left skid marks the whole length of the barrel

Scotty

Coldfingers
Same here-with 33 gr W296 these same bullets were going 2213fps and they did leave alot off lead in the barrel!!! But I wanted to get these to shoot in this gun so I'd have a nice Medium game/plinking bullet so I got to tinkering with the load. This filler with cornmeal seems to fit the bill!! I also had leading with this round through the SRH as well so it sould cure the problem in that as well- should get 1500 fps+ out of it with this load. Give it ago maybe it will work for you too- I just love the 454Casull in a rifle!!

Data: LEE 255 SWC Cast/3gr CM Filler, Case: Win Primer: CCI SR-Mag Powder: W296 30gr OAL: 1.640"
1877 FPS chrono 20" Rossi

As I said before this is slightly compressed load.

ve to wait for good weather to try the cornmeal. I'll let you know if it works in my rifle. Aint casting and experinenting fun? Does the smoke smell like cornbread?

Take care and God bless you and yours.

Tom

I use this same cast bullet the Lee 340. I am getting great groups using IMR 4227, no leading. I tested the load 31 grains of powder and a magnum large pistol powder with and without a filler which was half a cotton ball spread a bit and pressed down on the powder. I cast my bullets from wheelweights and drop them out of the mold into a five gallon bucket full of water. I dip lube them in melted Alox wipe the base off on newspaper and DO NOT SIZE. Accuracy was fine in both instances, the only difference seemed to be a bit less powder fouling with the cotton ball. I an getting around 1600 fps in my 22 inch barrel plenty for deer and hogs and not too much for plinking. I get no leading and barrel condition is stabilized after a few shots from a clean barrel.

I've had good luck using cream of wheat. It seems to stop leading dead in it's tracks with loads which should be problematic. At one time I had a quantity of Speer swaged lead .358 diameter 158 grn HP bullets. I wanted to use them for full power .357 mag loads from a revolver. Problem was they leaded terribly at any velocity over 900 fps or so. The first time I tried COW it was with these bullets loaded to 1300 fps plus with a full charge of Unique. Accuracy was good with zero leading. Made me a believer in this seemingly weird loading practice. It takes a little more time and max loads need to be reduced a bit to compensate for the added pressure, but the results are worth the effort.

This filler issue is just an old BP technic that was lost during the advent of smokeless powder but is still valid with smokeless powder, you just have to be careful with pressure!
Some smokeless powder are not ment to be compressed and you'll get very bad pressure spikes if you do compress them-SO CAUTION is the word to use!! Straight walled cartridges are better suited for use of fillers then bottle necks-hense the BP era cartridge and pistol cartidges are better for filler use.

I started using the filler in the 454 Casull Rifle loading to expand my bullet chioces with cast bullets-since you can push bullets faster and there are alot of plain base case bullets to use I figured it would be a good idea to look into fillers verses buy jacketed light bullets or going to GC bullets as cost is always a factor.

Thank goodness someone found a good use for cream of wheat.

Hi Rickster

I should have asked about something to protect the bullet and prevent leading. Filler material may increase pressure dramatically. I think my original idea of using egg carton foam wads works best for me. I thank you for your imput. It may help some other shooter.
Take care and God bless you and yours.
Tom

I have seen on other forums reccomendations to use egg carton foam waffers or granulated styrofoam material to protect the cast bullet base and prevent leading. Any comments or suggestions out there?? I'm shooting fairly stiff .45-70 loads with the lee 340 grain bullet cast from wheelweights and linotype alloy. I have not chronoed the load and don't have the data at hand. I plan to use this load for paper punching and possibly white tail deer. I plan to order a wad cutting punch in the near future. Any reccomendations? Should i go to straight linotype??

Thanks Tom
Just found this website last night. I am taking up an interest in the .45-70 Gov't round. I had purchased a SHARPS M-1874 replica and I love this round! I have ordered an 1895 MARLIN lever in .45-70 Gov't also! From the SHARPS, it prints about 1-1/2 in at 100 yards, using my home cast 510 gr bullet, over 31 gr of H-4198 and a CCI #200 primer. I would expect about 1548 fps. I am using a gas check and that really does wonders keeping the lead smears out of the rifling of the barrel.

Just found this website last night. I am taking up an interest in the .45-70 Gov't round. I had purchased a SHARPS M-1874 replica and I love this round! I have ordered an 1895 MARLIN lever in .45-70 Gov't also! From the SHARPS, it prints about 1-1/2 in at 100 yards, using my home cast 510 gr bullet, over 31 gr of H-4198 and a CCI #200 primer. I would expect about 1548 fps. I am using a gas check and that really does wonders keeping the lead smears out of the rifling of the barrel.

Tom,

I don't have any reason to doubt your word about the use of the styrofoam material that is used to construct egg cartons. However, it would seem that at ignition, that crap would melt and cause an awful mess in the bore of your rifle. Maybe, it just vaporizes??? The material is light weight, however, and anything to keep the fire off the rear end of the lead bullet???
Hows the accuracy at 100 Yards???

In my .45-70 with 405 grain Lee cast bullets, I use a cardboard wad cut from the thin cardboard used on pads of paper. I happen to have a punch made to go on my press, which makes it easy to make enough wads to last a year in a short time.
I have tried the styrofoam used on meat trays, which would be similar to egg cartons and I would not recommend it. The few times I tried it, I found the stuff stuck onto the bullet after I dug it out of a dirt bank. I don't think it would do much for accuracy, having an odd shaped lump stuck on the base of the bullet.

Tom
Jim here, family hails from Beaver County and Caddo County, on the Western side of Okla.
Here's couple of suggestions.
Sneak into the kitchen, steal some waxed paper, borrow the rolling pin, put a partial stick of lube in microwave to soften. (If you melt the lube in the microwave you are deep Kimchi with bride) place lube between two sheats of wax paper (If you get bullet lube on rolling pin wife will put itty bitty bumps all over your head with said rolling pin) and roll the lube out to 1/8th inch thick. When you have the cases prepped and ready for bullet seating use case mouth as a cutter and press lube over the case mouth leaving a thin plug of lube behind, seat bullet.
Another option is use 1/8th card board, saturated with melted bullet lube, it will look like the greasy paper towels used for soaking up bacon grease, or in my day Mom used news paper to soak up the grease from frying chicken. using a punch to cut out proper sized plugs use these as lube pads or gaschecks below the bullet and on top of the powder.
Never tried it but wonder how a couple laters of wax paper would work?
Jim

Hi Rickster

I should have asked about something to protect the bullet and prevent leading. Filler material may increase pressure dramatically. I think my original idea of using egg carton foam wads works best for me. I thank you for your imput. It may help some other shooter.
Take care and God bless you and yours.
Tom
Tom
To protect the bullet base,I know nothing better then a wax wad.
When I started reloading in the late 1940's,tere were several makers on the market.now,the only one that I know is
CF Ventures,in BloomingtonIn.
It comes in a sheet that you press over the case mouth to form perfect disc in the case mouth.
All my hunting loads include a wax wad.
This is seperate from a filler,which may be used instead of,or with the wad.
I don't use a wad with a bullet with a gas check.
Frank

I have seen on other forums reccomendations to use egg carton foam waffers or granulated styrofoam material to protect the cast bullet base and prevent leading. Any comments or suggestions out there?? I'm shooting fairly stiff .45-70 loads with the lee 340 grain bullet cast from wheelweights and linotype alloy. I have not chronoed the load and don't have the data at hand. I plan to use this load for paper punching and possibly white tail deer. I plan to order a wad cutting punch in the near future. Any reccomendations? Should i go to straight linotype??

Thanks Tom


November24, 2004.

I posted this a long time age. I've since setteled on a load using the Lee 340RF bullet. I will not reccommend any load for any rifle shooter but myself. Use anything you find here at your own risk. This load works well in MY rifle. I use the Lee 340RF and 48 grains if IMR 4198. I use a wad cut from a foam egg carton. My chrono showes 1750 fps. I get absolutely no leading in my rifle. The primer doesn't seem overly flat. It kicks. I'm just getting tender in my old age. Please work up your loads with caution. It's a strong rifle load.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

In my .45-70 with 405 grain Lee cast bullets, I use a cardboard wad cut from the thin cardboard used on pads of paper. I happen to have a punch made to go on my press, which makes it easy to make enough wads to last a year in a short time.
I have tried the styrofoam used on meat trays, which would be similar to egg cartons and I would not recommend it. The few times I tried it, I found the stuff stuck onto the bullet after I dug it out of a dirt bank. I don't think it would do much for accuracy, having an odd shaped lump stuck on the base of the bullet.

This sounds like the best idea yet, regarding keeping the hot flame and gasses away from the plain base of the cast lead bullet. Do you have any suggestions on where to obtain or make a "cutter" of sorts, for the cardboard? Does this actually keep your bore from leading shot for shot???

I use a commercial product called Puff-lon its micro-cellulose impregnated with moly, teflon and other stuff, the stuff is so fine it practically floats out of the jar. It looks pinkish beige and stains your fingers black. Lubes the barrel, protects the bullet base and works very well in my .45-70's with 350 - 400 grain hard cast commercial bullets. Just dump in the powder, fill the case with Puff-lon and seat the bullet. Smaller groups almost always happen, leading doesn't.

I used cornmeal once but it made my shooting session smell like a corn tortilla, why I gained 10 pounds after stopping at the local tamale parlor to feed my craving for Mexican food. Pass the salsa!

axlenut

I have used ground up Styrofoam that I purchased in blocks from the Wal-Mart crafts department. I use a small food processor to chop it up. I have used the filler for 45-70, 300 win mag, and 44 mag. It not only protects the (bullet base, good groups, no leading) but it also allows the use of reduced loads by taking up the excess air space. I use this technique for firing cast bullets, at over 2400 fps, in a 300 win mag. These rounds cannot be fired much faster accurately, so a reduced load was required. If I want to use my favorite powder, (surplus IMR4895 clone); while not having to worry about a reduced load induced explosion, a filler is required. This also works well for H110 or W296 reduced loads for the 44 mag. ****Use this info at your own risk***** I have tried Cream of Wheat in the past, but it is much heavier than Styrofoam and reduces the potential power charge accordingly. I have also opened Cream of Wheat loads after a couple of months, and the high humidity of north Florida caused the Cream of Wheat to set up like concrete. I don’t even want to think about what could happen if a lit off a round with that set up stuff in a bottle nosed case liked a 300 win mag. As for melting or gooping of Styrofoam, it just does not happen. I find the little bits of the stuff down range. I have made wads out of Styrofoam in the past and I have found these downrange a bit blackened but not at all melted. I use the powered Styrofoam as apposed to the wad as it is much easier to produce, load, and also addresses any excess air-space issues.

Mike Goldstein

In my .45-70 with 405 grain Lee cast bullets, I use a cardboard wad cut from the thin cardboard used on pads of paper. I happen to have a punch made to go on my press, which makes it easy to make enough wads to last a year in a short time.
I have tried the styrofoam used on meat trays, which would be similar to egg cartons and I would not recommend it. The few times I tried it, I found the stuff stuck onto the bullet after I dug it out of a dirt bank. I don't think it would do much for accuracy, having an odd shaped lump stuck on the base of the bullet.
I took your suggestion to heart and tried the backs of writing tablets. The "cards" that I cut out were fairly simple to implement and they seem to work great. I shoot .45 AUTO, so finding the "ACP's" was second nature to me. I simply take the "ACP's" and swing just once, with a rubble mallet. The ACP brass cuts a very nice "card". Do this over a piece of hardwood (for longevity). Thanks much for the suggestion on using the "cardboard." My .45-70 MARLIN 1895 shoots approximately 1-1/2 in at 100 yards and does NOT seem to exhibit any leading when using these "cards" over the powder. I use just one, and tamp it tightly over the smokless powder. Shot-after-shot, they seem to do quite well. When Spring rolls around, I plan to do a lot more expermentation with this assembly with different powders.....my goal is "under an inch" at 100 yd. Pretty cold up here in Wisconsin, right now! Thanks again!

I am pleased to see that you found a way to cut the wads.
However, I would caution against tamping the wad against the powder. This could create an air space between the wad and the bullet, which has been (potentially) the reason for damaging chambers.
I simply push my wad slightly down the case, and then seat the bullet. This keeps the wad against the base of the bullet and prevents the air space problem.

I took your suggestion to heart and tried the backs of writing tablets. The "cards" that I cut out were fairly simple to implement and they seem to work great. I shoot .45 AUTO, so finding the "ACP's" was second nature to me. I simply take the "ACP's" and swing just once, with a rubble mallet. The ACP brass cuts a very nice "card". Do this over a piece of hardwood (for longevity). Thanks much for the suggestion on using the "cardboard." My .45-70 MARLIN 1895 shoots approximately 1-1/2 in at 100 yards and does NOT seem to exhibit any leading when using these "cards" over the powder. I use just one, and tamp it tightly over the smokless powder. Shot-after-shot, they seem to do quite well. When Spring rolls around, I plan to do a lot more expermentation with this assembly with different powders.....my goal is "under an inch" at 100 yd. Pretty cold up here in Wisconsin, right now! Thanks again!


Glad I could help. I shoot a nef handi rifle. It's more accurate than the shooter. I'm enjoying my .444 and my 1894 .44 mag as well. I just got back from shooting my redhawk .44. I sure hope the wad works in hand guns also. Most of my .44 bullets are gas checked. Never a problem with them. Keep shooting.

Take care and God bless you and yours.

Tom

I have seen on other forums reccomendations to use egg carton foam waffers or granulated styrofoam material to protect the cast bullet base and prevent leading. Any comments or suggestions out there?? I'm shooting fairly stiff .45-70 loads with the lee 340 grain bullet cast from wheelweights and linotype alloy. I have not chronoed the load and don't have the data at hand. I plan to use this load for paper punching and possibly white tail deer. I plan to order a wad cutting punch in the near future. Any reccomendations? Should i go to straight linotype??

Thanks Tom
Tom,

H-E-L-P!!
Do you know of any type of punch that would be commercially available for cutting paper discs to place on top of the powder ? I am using a plain-based lead bullet (405 gr) and have been experimenting with using a .45 ACP brass and driving it through the "card" from the backs of tablet paper. It works fine, keeps the lead out of my bore, but is rather slow. I see that MIDWAY USA has a punch available, one that you strike with a mallet, and punch them one-at-a-time. What I am looking for is one that could be used as an attachment to my single-stage RCBS press.

Thanks much!

In my .45-70 with 405 grain Lee cast bullets, I use a cardboard wad cut from the thin cardboard used on pads of paper. I happen to have a punch made to go on my press, which makes it easy to make enough wads to last a year in a short time.
I have tried the styrofoam used on meat trays, which would be similar to egg cartons and I would not recommend it. The few times I tried it, I found the stuff stuck onto the bullet after I dug it out of a dirt bank. I don't think it would do much for accuracy, having an odd shaped lump stuck on the base of the bullet.
H-E-L-P!!
Do you know of any type of punch that would be commercially available for cutting paper discs to place on top of the powder ? I am using a plain-based lead bullet (405 gr) and have been experimenting with using a .45 ACP brass and driving it through the "card" from the backs of tablet paper. It works fine, keeps the lead out of my bore, but is rather slow. I see that MIDWAY USA has a punch available, one that you strike with a mallet, and punch them one-at-a-time. What I am looking for is one that could be used as an attachment to my single-stage RCBS press.

Thanks much!

I have seen on other forums reccomendations to use egg carton foam waffers or granulated styrofoam material to protect the cast bullet base and prevent leading. Any comments or suggestions out there?? I'm shooting fairly stiff .45-70 loads with the lee 340 grain bullet cast from wheelweights and linotype alloy. I have not chronoed the load and don't have the data at hand. I plan to use this load for paper punching and possibly white tail deer. I plan to order a wad cutting punch in the near future. Any reccomendations? Should i go to straight linotype??

Thanks Tom

Tom,
Awhile back, I attempted to get additional information on cutters, to be used for cutting cardboard disks. It doesn't seem as though anyone has information on "punch-type" cutters (the kind that could be used like a hand-held paper punch). I tried different places including a couple of our local book stores. I have been using .45 ACP brass with a rubber mallet. This tolerably well, however, is slow and about every 7 or 8 cuts made, I must re-size the brass in the ACP carbide re-sizer. I am NOT ABOUT TO CUT STYROFOAM DISKS as I believe it could create a real mess in the bore of my rifle. The cardboard that I use is from the backs of tablet paper, and seems to really cut down the bore leading.

A 15/32 punch isn't the most common thing arround, but you can try an industial tool house. Considering its use, exact sizing to the 1/1000th isn't a must have.

Problem is that the common 7/16th punch usually knc\ocks out a .440" circle and the next common size is the 1/2" wich is too large. I'll look for the 32nd inch sizes, but know they aren't all that common (as hardly anyone really needs to cut gaskets anymore).

For a good solid "cheap" set, try this link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2580

the 3/8th is a useful .375" size that covers the cap-and-ball .36's well...the 1/2" gets used in a 50/70...and the 5/16" while a little snug, works in 308's and .311" barrels just fine.

Or you can buy one made sold specifially for the caliber you are shooting:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=37&styleID=126

Howdy Guys-

My filler of choice for straight walled cases is the green florists foam. You can buy it on sale at the craft stores in 6 packs of rectangular blocks - cheap!

In use - I drop a powder charge and then using a dowel, measure the remaining space in the case. I cut a slice of the foam so that it'll occupy the remaining space within the case, less the part to be occupied by the bullet and give about 1/8" to 1/16" compression when the bullet is seated. I charge the case then push the mouth through that slice of foam for a perfect fit. Seat the bullet and it'll push the foam down into contact with the powder and completely fill what otherwise would have been airspace.

The foam essentially disintegrates progressively when the charge is touched off so - no secondary projectile effect. I did some experiments with the foam. From it's starting condition - when it is compressed under pressure the product reduces to approx. 25% of it's original volume (taking into acount pressure alone - ie no heat). When you put a flame to it (from a match or lighter) it doesn't melt and turn into goo. Instead it acts kind of like human hair (don't ask how I know about that) and shrivels back like a fuse. The borwnish black substance of the limited remains is fragile and disintegrates further when you squeeze it between your fingers literally turning to dust. It makes for very clean cases and bores, has tightened up groups and dropped standard deviation for a number of loads.

If you're going to play with fillers - be aware that some folks have ringed chambers using fillers so you are definitely on your own. I always start by backing my charge well off and test over a chronograph, carefully monitoring velocity consistancy as I work the load up. I have used this in the .45-70 to about 1800fps range typically with a 425gr. cast bullet. That's as high as I care to go both in terms of recoil and the amount of whollop I need at the other end.

Best regards-

Sky C.