Fate has smiled on me and graced my gun safe with an original 1886 in 50 Express. I'm trying to get geared up to load it, and thanks to Starline there's brass available at reasonable prices; Barnes has good quality jacketed bullets and Buffalo Arms has some 300-grain cast bullets. That's all good, now here comes the questions:

1) Will 50-90 dies work for reloading this round? Even though different shell holders are required the case length is about the same and the bullet diameter is the same. What I haven't figured out is the case dimensions on both from top to bottom but I know that 50-90 dies are about 1/3 the cost of 50-110 dies.

2) Anyone know where I can find hollow point cast bullets for this cartridge?

Thanks,
Trey

Please dont tell me you are going to load up that poor old winchester with smokeless loads! That is just wrong! Get a nice lyman drop tube and all that other stuff, and hvae some real fun!

NH_Hunter

There's a fair amount of difference between the .50-90 Sharps and the .50-110 Winchester. The biggest difference is the .565" base diameter of the Sharps compared to the .550 base of the Winchester. So you won't get any resizing in the Sharps die. Neck sizing, maybe. The Sharps is 2.5" long compared to the 2.4" long Winchester, so I doubt if you can crimp the Winchester. Incidentally, the original Winchester I have in my cartridge collection isn't crimped, but it has a deep cannelure .4" down for the case mouth.

Your low-priced Sharps dies must be Lymans, and they are a steal at that price. Have you checked out CH-4D dies? They're $138 on their website vs. $163 in a 1997 RCBS price list.
http://www.ch4d.com/

Yup, stuff her full of black. It's not the hassle to clean up that some folks say. I've used that much in my flinter and your shoulder will notice.

Bye
Jack

:p Please heed Jack's and NH_hunter's advise. Don't take the unnecessary chance with a rare and valuable 50EX Winchester. If in excellent condition your gun can be valued into five figures. If you can offer your gun's approximate serial number(eg.48XXX),it's manufacture date can be reasonably determined. Some 50-110WCF '86s were made with nickle steel barrels especially for smokeless powder. They are usually so marked on the left side of the barrel below the rear sight. These guns are even scarcer. Keep care of your treasure, it will only rise dramatically in value in the future. After all, they don't make 'em anymore.

I appreciate your concern guys, but fortunately I'm not new to collecting Winchesters, just new to the 50 Express. This gun is of 1903 vintage and proofed for smokeless loads (British proofed, in fact, and stamped RB Rodda, Calcutta. A true India cat gun!). Since it has a mint bore I don't think it has seen black powder and I don't plan on being the first to use it. Keep in mind the pressures from a case full of appropriate smokeless powder won't exceed 20,000 psi in this round, especially pushing a 300-grain bullet.

Jack- thanks for the case dimension comparison. I figured turning the dies in or out would take care of the length issue, but was worried the diameters weren't the same. Guess I'll have to spend more money and get the right dies. Now, does anyone have tips on locating the hollow point cast bullets?

Trey

Trey,is the barrel of your Winchester marked "nickle steel especially for smokeless powder"?

No, which is why I'm looking specifically for lead bullets (and not the hard-cast variety, either). When I get some time later this week I'm going to pull the forend and take a look at the markings under the barrel; I won't be surprised if I find Illingsworth or Midvale steel as the material of construction (both were "nickel" smokeless steels used by Winchester).

Even if the barrel material was of so called "blackpowder" type there is no harm in shooting smokeless...UNLESS you try to make these old guns something they weren't meant to be. Shooting smokeless powder at blackpowder velocities and using appropriate bullet construction is kinder to old guns than using the more corrosive black. Trying to turn old guns into 3,500 fps wonder-rifles is where people become hazardous to themselves, those around them, and those irreplaceable rifles.

I've got much respect for shooters of blackpowder cartridges, and it's something I have given serious consideration to in the past. At this time it's just not something I want to do, and again I don't want to use this old rifle to learn the art of loading, shooting, or cleaning BP. Again, based on the bore condition of this rifle (and comparing it to some BP 1886's I have with very rough bores) I don't think anyone at any time used blackpowder loads.

For your information, a little blurry as my copier wasn't made for this.

A .50-90 Sharps and a .50-110 Winchester.

Bye
Jack

Thanks Jack- I'd say that's a pretty creative use of a copier. The paper-patched bullet of the .50-90 makes it look like a much bigger cartridge, but isn't overall length of the brass 2.5-inches? And out of curiousity, does the .50-110 have a hollow-point bullet or an embedded brass piece?

Yup, case length is 2.525" on this one. Overall length is 3.345". The Winchester's overall length is 2.750" and the bullet tip is plain lead.

Bye
Jack

I shoot a similar cartridge, .500BPE and the HP bullets did not work as well as the solid nose but it could just be the rifle rather than the bullet.
Regular lead bullets can be hollow pointed in a lathe or the Forester case trimmer for a trial run without the expense of buying a HP mold.
Try calling Dave Gullo, Buffalo Arms @ 208-263-6953 about a mold, he supplies the BPCR shooters.
Also, Handloader, Oct. 2002, had an article by Ross Seyfried on loading the big bore BP guns with smokeless you might find interesting.
I prefer smokeless but most people that shoot my double rifle like the instant smoke cloud that 136 FFG puts out. Dave
http://www.hunt101.com/img/105636.jpg