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  #1  
Old 09-25-2006, 03:46 AM
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Modern successor to the SMLE?


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Just wondering what you blokes feel is the modern successor to the SMLE .303 - what bolt action rifles out there would you consider to have the style and continuity of this classic today? Is there an updated version of this rifle in the 21st C for those who love the SMLE and want a current design?
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2006, 04:23 AM
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F88 AUSteyr?
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2006, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiecolector
F88 AUSteyr?
Not really what i would call a BOLT action replacement.If we are going to talk auto replacement i wouldnt go past the SLR.
There are a lot of modern day replacements for the smle,But none i can think of with the track record and reliability of the smle,maybe the modern version(AIA) of the smle,which are chambered in 308 and 7.62x39.Mausers come to mind but arent really new.
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf
Not really what i would call a BOLT action replacement.If we are going to talk auto replacement i wouldnt go past the SLR.
Exactly! I am strictly talking about modern BOLT ACTION rifles that are the modern update of the SMLE type rifle. So basically what would be the modern upgrade to the SMLE of old coming out of the British design? Would Holland & Holland be the best of the bolt actions out of the UK these days?

Quote:
There are a lot of modern day replacements for the smle,But none i can think of with the track record and reliability of the smle,maybe the modern version(AIA) of the smle,which are chambered in 308 and 7.62x39.Mausers come to mind but arent really new.
I am not familiar with the AIA --- that would be what I'm talking about though - any links or info on these you care to share?

BTW* I think the Austeyr is a complete joke - it's sad our military heads have lumbered our army with these bits of junk prone to discharging all by themselves!!!
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:34 AM
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The steyr isnt bad for what it is,i just prefer something with more stopping power.I would rather be shot at (i wouldnt like to be shot at)with a m16 rather than a SLR.Hideing behind a tree will give you a little cover from 5.56,If its a 7.62 forget about it.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:42 AM
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Heres the link to the M10,i think there made in vietnam,quality is probably a bit iffy?

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/index.shtm
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:49 AM
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I'm less forgiving of the Austeyr I'm afraid - after speaking to mates in the army and people in the know. The list of problems with these guns is unforgivable.

If you stick a bayonette on them they are impossible to shoot and become end heavy - no surprise right?

How about after attacking something with the bayonette attached, the barrells are left bent and then the bayonettes fall off and won't re-attach properly!

If submerged in water the sights fill up with the water and become useless! Endless complaints about the sights themselves being pretty useless even when clear of water.

They have a reputation for discharging by themselves though the ADF tries to cover this up. There are many other problems with these guns not to mention the lame 5.56mm round. You know why they chose the new round NATO 5.56mm - because it's better at wounding a man than killing him which is supposed to slow an army down and put more pressure on their resources than an outright kill.

I'm with you ... give me a Lithgow L1A1 any day of the week!!!
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf
Heres the link to the M10,i think there made in vietnam,quality is probably a bit iffy?

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-AIA/index.shtm
Ahhh I have been meaning to ask about the Australian Internation Arms rifles ... what is the story with these then? I guess they are OZ design and Vietnam build then? Are these considered to be junkers then --- I know nothing about them. As I said before I am like new to shooting again after years and have A LOT of catching up to do with information and what's what.
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikirocker
I'm less forgiving of the Austeyr I'm afraid - after speaking to mates in the army and people in the know. The list of problems with these guns is unforgivable.

If you stick a bayonette on them they are impossible to shoot and become end heavy - no surprise right?

How about after attacking something with the bayonette attached, the barrells are left bent and then the bayonettes fall off and won't re-attach properly!

If submerged in water the sights fill up with the water and become useless! Endless complaints about the sights themselves being pretty useless even when clear of water.

They have a reputation for discharging by themselves though the ADF tries to cover this up. There are many other problems with these guns not to mention the lame 5.56mm round. You know why they chose the new round NATO 5.56mm - because it's better at wounding a man than killing him which is supposed to slow an army down and put more pressure on their resources than an outright kill.

I'm with you ... give me a Lithgow L1A1 any day of the week!!!

My comment about the steyr is more about what it is made from.Tupperware isnt my cup of tea.I would prefer to carry extra weight.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf
My comment about the steyr is more about what it is made from.Tupperware isnt my cup of tea.I would prefer to carry extra weight.
No doubt mate ... tragic that the OZ govt decided to destroy the 100,000 reserve surplus of L1A1's!!!!
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  #11  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:40 AM
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Don't mean to hijack the original thread asking for a modern replacement for the SMLE, but...............

Seems governments are more controlled by the manufacturers than the troops.

Our soldiers are complaining about the M4 with it's 5.56 ammo as they are being outranged by combatants armed with the AK's 7.63x39's. The US has been tinkering with a 6.8 replacement cartridge.

What amazes me is their continued resistance to return to the 7.62x51 that worked so well in both shoulder arms and machineguns. Many of our special force troops insist on the M14 and M60 for their uses.

The .303 and the 30-06 seemed to work well in WWI and WWII - why change a good thing?
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdub
The .303 and the 30-06 seemed to work well in WWI and WWII - why change a good thing?
Aussie troops go into the field and nearly all prefer the Minimi than the Austeyr - as I said before it's everybody falling into line with the NATO convention of the 5.56mm. The decision was made high up that this round causes greater disruption to the enemy by wounding rather than killing! The resultant effect is that it puts greater pressure on the resources and slows down the opposing army!!! ( Total Bullsh1t! )

Personally the best weapon Australia has had in recent times was the L1A1 Lithgow we used in Vietnam ... the Brits are having exactly the same hate/hate relationship with their SA80's ... many complaints!

Last edited by Tikirocker; 09-25-2006 at 09:59 AM.
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:05 AM
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I have a bit of hands on experiance with the F88. I'm in the ADF, as a weapon for todays battlefield it does just fine. Yes the upclose and personal tactics today mean a heavier projectile with a larger frontal diameter will do more damage but thats the cartridge not the weapon system. The sights on the F88 are in opinion good to very good. They put the target and reticle on the same plane means easier to see. The 'donut' in the centre is condusive to good shooting the human eye automatically centres an object in a circle. Thirdly the donut is a crude range finder making distances easier to judge therefore better shooting. There are also higher power scopes we can use for even greater accuracy. The F88S has multi sight options as opposed to the F88A1. With webbing pack and weapon we can be carrying 35kg+ a heavier rifle would be a strain on 90% of people. light weapons are good. Bayonets are really not a viable weapon these days and if you have a fixed bayonet does accuracy matter? I doubt it.

Anyway my 2 cents.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamate
I have a bit of hands on experiance with the F88. I'm in the ADF, as a weapon for todays battlefield it does just fine. Yes the upclose and personal tactics today mean a heavier projectile with a larger frontal diameter will do more damage but thats the cartridge not the weapon system. The sights on the F88 are in opinion good to very good. They put the target and reticle on the same plane means easier to see. The 'donut' in the centre is condusive to good shooting the human eye automatically centres an object in a circle. Thirdly the donut is a crude range finder making distances easier to judge therefore better shooting. There are also higher power scopes we can use for even greater accuracy. The F88S has multi sight options as opposed to the F88A1. With webbing pack and weapon we can be carrying 35kg+ a heavier rifle would be a strain on 90% of people. light weapons are good. Bayonets are really not a viable weapon these days and if you have a fixed bayonet does accuracy matter? I doubt it.

Anyway my 2 cents.
Hey mate,

I guess it's horses for courses - I have spoken to others in the ADF who don't rate the F88 as a good weapon at all for many of the reasons stated above plus more. I personally would prefer the Lithgow SLR over the F88 any day of the week - I'd take the extra weight every time - our boys in Vietnam had nothing but good to say about them - not so the F88.
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikirocker
I'd take the extra weight every time - our boys in Vietnam had nothing but good to say about them - not so the F88.
I didnt know the diggers had f88 steyrs in vietnam
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf
I didnt know the diggers had f88 steyrs in vietnam
They didn't ... but ofcourse you could read my statement that way. What I am saying is that the Vietnam boys didn't complain about the L1A1's like the modern ADF boys complain about the F88's. In fact the Vietnam boys still have nothing but love for the old SLR's.

Personally I'd like the see our Defense Ministry do something right for a change - the F88 is just another Collins Class Sub or 1960's US Helicopter that they tried to shove trillions of dollars worth of tech into that won't work ... who's running this operation???!
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2006, 01:50 PM
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I think you should take a trip up to lithgow and have a look around the lithgow small arms museum.You would love to see first hand the differences in the slr and f88.heres some of the gear there.







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  #18  
Old 09-26-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf
I think you should take a trip up to lithgow and have a look around the lithgow small arms museum.You would love to see first hand the differences in the slr and f88.heres some of the gear there.
Lithgow is 20 mins from my house - I plan to get down to the Museum in the near future and show my support. They are in trouble with the lease on the land being up within a year and the modern owners are happy to sell the land to the Museum but they want market value for it ... why doesn't the government get in there and preserve this bit of history?!!!

They are taking donations and such also ... I have a few ideas to try and help them get the word out to a wider audience but need to talk to them first. Can you imagine the place being bulldozed and raized for the sake of a Toyota dealership?!!!

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