The web's most comprehensive user-interactive handloading database! Find the loading data created by handloaders, for handloaders, post your pet loads, or access and develop your own online loading database with our LoadNotes personal handloading database software. This feature, unique in its concept and intuitive in it's data presentation is fast to access, superbly organized and comprehensive in scope.Our online forums for questions and answers on many shooting and outdoor related topics. A dynamic, active, and well-informed resource for your enjoyment and interaction. Our most used resource on this website! Come share the experience with us!
» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Leverguns > Big-Bore Lever Guns
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southfield Michigan
Posts: 218
.457 Wild West Magnum VS 45/70


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Hi I was thinking about having my Marlin 45/70 converted to a .457 Wild West Magnum for the extra power but now I'm reading that the difference in really not that great when compared to a good handload or some of the Buffalo Bore loads which can practically duplicate the 350 grain .457 just losing maybe a 100 ft/sec or so. What do you guys think is it worth the extra 300.00 dollars for the conversion. On the plus side with this conversion you can still use standard 45/70 loads, Sweet!! Wild West Guns does the conversion see the link below they got some nice stuff!

Tcj

http://www.wildwestguns.com/Ammunition/ammunition.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-10-2006, 09:07 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 165
Looking at my 2004 Hodgdon Annual Manual, the hottest loads for the 45-70 are slightly faster than the hottest loads for the 457 WWM, but not by much. The only real difference appears to be that the 457 WWM operates at lower pressures and is slightly longer.
So I really don't think there would be any real advantage, especially since the 45-70 can tackle anything on this continent, and just about anywhere else as well. Take the extra 300 bucks and buy some more ammo, or another gun.

rt
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-11-2006, 08:32 AM
jackfish's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 668
You don't need a WWG 457 Magnum to get its performance in a Marlin 1895. All you need to do is have a gunsmith do modifications to the carrier, ejector and ejection port on your Marlin 1895 45-70 so it can cycle 2.68" COAL 45-70 rounds. Mic McPherson describes the process in an article in the October 1998 issue of Precision Shooting magazine. You don't need a 0.1" longer piece of brass, you only need to be able to load and cycle a 0.1"-0.13" longer 45-70 COAL.
__________________
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-11-2006, 08:48 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 379
I am wondering as to why you would want to make this conversion? If it is power or penetration, all you have to do is load up some hard cast bullets like the Pile Driver and you can hunt most things on this planet OK.

It will turn the lever gun into a real project come time to purchase factory ammo! It also might turn that same rifle into something of a night mare in the recoil department too.

I have a 45/70 and it will do all I need it to do, given loading it up with the right amount and type of powder, along with proper bullet weight and type.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-11-2006, 06:14 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southfield Michigan
Posts: 218
Thanks guys that's what I thought that you could basically duplicate the performance of the WWG 457 but I just wanted to check. If that is the case why did Wild West Guns bother with developing a new cartridge. Been handloading just about a year now so rolling my own for my 45/70 is something I'm considering, been just doing the handgun stuff, no rifle calibers yet. Say RT4567, whats the load that approximates the 475 in the Hodgdon Manual. Also you said "especially since the 45-70 can tackle anything on this continent, and just about anywhere else as well. Take the extra 300 bucks and buy some more ammo, or another gun. rt" So do you think it could take this? see the link below, not that I'm anticipating running into something like this but one never knows. :}

Tcj

http://mountainsurvival.com/news_art...earattack.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-11-2006, 06:51 PM
jackfish's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 668
That story is completely bogus. The pictures of the slain bear are not even related to the pictures of the half eaten person.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearhunt.asp

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/g/giantbear.htm
__________________
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:25 PM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt31
Thanks guys that's what I thought that you could basically duplicate the performance of the WWG 457 but I just wanted to check. If that is the case why did Wild West Guns bother with developing a new cartridge. Been handloading just about a year now so rolling my own for my 45/70 is something I'm considering, been just doing the handgun stuff, no rifle calibers yet. Say RT4567, whats the load that approximates the 475 in the Hodgdon Manual. Also you said "especially since the 45-70 can tackle anything on this continent, and just about anywhere else as well. Take the extra 300 bucks and buy some more ammo, or another gun. rt" So do you think it could take this? see the link below, not that I'm anticipating running into something like this but one never knows. :}

Tcj

http://mountainsurvival.com/news_art...earattack.html

Marketing, plain and simple.

The average person has NO idea what a low-pressure .45-70 will do... let along what can be accomplished with a bit of judicious handloading.

Frankly, neither did I .... till I found that .50 cal 440 grain bullet at about 1,000fps will zip through a bison, and end it's days on earth, pretty convincingly. From a handgun!

After seeing that, I'd bet a warmish .45-70 load ought to be good for anything that needs killing, on this earth.
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt31
Say RT4567, whats the load that approximates the 475 in the Hodgdon Manual. Also you said "especially since the 45-70 can tackle anything on this continent, and just about anywhere else as well. Take the extra 300 bucks and buy some more ammo, or another gun. rt" So do you think it could take this? see the link below, not that I'm anticipating running into something like this but one never knows. :}

Tcj

http://mountainsurvival.com/news_art...earattack.html
As Mike G and Jackfish have pointed out, that story is an urban legend that has been debunked several times over. But I would not feel undergunned with my 45-70 and some Buffalo Bore loads if I came face to face with that critter.
As for which loads duplicate the 457WWM, for a 400 gr Speer JFP, try 55 grains of H322 for 1984 fps, or 50.5 grains of H4198 for 2002 fps. These are Max loads, reduce by 10 percent for starters.
Good luck, and good shootin'.
rt
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-12-2006, 08:07 AM
jackfish's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt4567
As for which loads duplicate the 457WWM, for a 400 gr Speer JFP, try 55 grains of H322 for 1984 fps, or 50.5 grains of H4198 for 2002 fps. These are Max loads, reduce by 10 percent for starters.
Or with the 400 grain Speer try:
50 grains of Reloder 10 for 2015 fps
53 grains of Ramshot X-Terminator for 2008 fps
These are Max loads, reduce by 10 percent for starters.
__________________
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-12-2006, 07:30 PM
MikeG's Avatar
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,947
Speer 400gr. bullets are accurate in my .458 Win Mag, but appear on the verge of catastrophic expansion at impact velocities over 2,000fps. I wouldn't get too carried away with velocity, with that one (except for varmits )
__________________
MikeG

Quote:
Originally Posted by faucettb
Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple, be nice and join in.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-13-2006, 06:12 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southfield Michigan
Posts: 218
Thanks Jackfish & RT4567 for the loading info. Say guys what do you think about the 450 Marlin opposed to 45/70 any advantage there or can this load also basically duplicated with either Handloading or speciality loads from places like Buffalo Bore. Say what's the recoil like with the Buffalo Bore Stuff, got to try some!

Tcj
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-13-2006, 12:46 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: EAST CENTRAL BAMA
Posts: 673
Buffalo Bore actually loads the 45-70 to higher volicity than the 450 Marlin. At least thats what,s listed in Cabela's shooting and reloading catalog. Also the Speer 400 gr kills deer very dead and fast at only 1750 fps, less killing on the butt end too!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-13-2006, 07:43 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt31
Thanks guys that's what I thought that you could basically duplicate the performance of the WWG 457 but I just wanted to check. If that is the case why did Wild West Guns bother with developing a new cartridge. :}
Tcj

http://mountainsurvival.com/news_art...earattack.html
Take a close look at the 45-90 and compare it to the 457WWG and see how much of a new cartridge developement that you think it is
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-14-2006, 06:47 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southfield Michigan
Posts: 218
Say got this from another post in this forum. Wow I didn't know this really glad I checked here before I decided to do that modification on my 45/70. I sure wouldn't of even considered it if I known this. There's just absolutely no reason that I can see to justify the expense going through that modification. The post below is in response to a question about the 475 being a wildcat cartilage.

Tcj

"Warlock, this is not by any means a wildcat. First off they opend up the throat and lengthened the brass-still a .45-70. In this caliber you buy their highly priced brass for like $34 per 20 and if you shoot standard sized rounds thru then you not only have inaccuracies due to the throat being some distance away and a fouled chamber that must be cleaned before shooting the acclaimed .457 round. They max out the powder charges for their so called round that is still equivalent to the designed pressures of the .45-70 -45000psi. You see I ashamedly own a Marlin exactly like the one you see with the exception of the breakdown. I would not do it again. I can say after I firelapped my bore and used Marshalls bullets I am getting excellent accuracies out the .457 but with the same bullet in the .45-70 shooting lead of course my bullets spread out-throating problem. So if you can afford to shoot their brass I say go ahead but the .45-70 is sufficient in regards to all the killing power, instead of maxin out the pressures of the rifle and beatin it up and you. Furthermore if I wanted to shoot accurately, loads that are designed for the .45-70 then I expect to size my throat for a bullet to almost kiss the riflings for any lead bullet to be accurate. As I said a shame. Don't get me wrong, their craftsmenship is very good and they are very high priced and the sales guys attitude literally sucks. The smith is cordial and will work with you but the other fella ....not much good to say ----hope he sees the Light. I was anxious about their efforts and jumped and boy did I jump----neverrrrrr again"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-14-2006, 09:47 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: ID
Posts: 1,147
Crap!! At $10 a round who could aford to shoot it?
__________________
Gunnt45/454-One shot ! One kill!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-17-2006, 09:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16
grizzly ammo makes 45-70 loads that equal the 457 mag. ammo is less also. no need to convert.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Never wildcatted before SyCoRex Wildcat Cartridges 19 01-10-2008 10:34 AM
357 sig???? m141a Handgun Cartridges 22 09-14-2007 05:04 PM
457 Wild West Magnum warlock Wildcat Cartridges 14 12-09-2005 09:41 AM
Checking interest on a possible group buy on Wild West Guns lever action cold Big-Bore Lever Guns 1 02-02-2005 11:00 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:44 PM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2