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  #1  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:09 PM
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recoil .45-70


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I absolutley love my 1895G however I have noticed something about it. I have come to beleve that this rifle was not realy ment for bazooka rounds. The way it is made does not channel recoil very well. I fired off some hand loads today that where pretty much max loads. I also fired some normal factory safe for all rifles loads along with some of my moderate loaded rounds. The moderate loaded and factory loaded rounds where fun to shoot and not too hard on the shoulder. The hot loads i fired where fun but in reality sucked to shoot. After about 5 or 6 rounds or so it started to hurt so I set it down. I dont want to start flinching. My neighbor brought a ruger #1 in .45-70 we fired ruger only rounds in it and it was more plesant to shoot. Rested a while and banged off some real big bore stuff. My neighbor brought a .458 win mag and a .416 rigby. strangely the rigby and was more fun to shoot the .458 win mag was a hoot and recoild from both was a lot and ratteled my brains as usuall however it did not "hurt" Like the Marlin did. I will not get rid of my Marlin I love it ill probably not shoot too many nuke rounds through it. The more and more I think about it the more i realize that you dont need that much booty to take down anything in North America with that gun. Heck the buffalo hunters did it with BP loads that where no ware near as hot as the junk I was shooting. I also found that 350g Hornady RN ontop of 50g of IMR 4198 which is a max load! was not that bad as the 300g remingtons ontop of 66 grains of H335 Max load by some books. Ive shot it up to 68g but the rounds start sticking. Have any of you ever experenced this? Is there anything that can be done to reduice the HURT.
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:16 PM
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Yeah you get the picture, the fact remains that it will work when you need it to tell me you care about recoil when a big bear is running you down wanting to eat you!!!!!!!!
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:20 PM
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Lever guns are NOT designed to be shot from a bench.I'm older,now,with arthritis in both shoulders.Even the 30/30 is a pain,after a while.
Try shooting from the sitting position.with practice,you can determine which loads ere more accurate.Then shoot these from the bench.
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:50 PM
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I remember reading an article in Guns and Ammo years ago where the author described shooting the 1895G with hot loads as being "about as fun as getting a root canal." For some reason that has always stuck wih me.
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:55 PM
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Narrow stock, lots of drop, sharp cheekpiece, and small recoil pad. There is not a worse combination of features for getting kicked! I do love my Marlins but they kick out of proportion to the cartridge... the recoil calculators say my .35 should be much less than my model 70 .30-06, but it feels worse from the bench. The .444 should be kicking no more than a .30-06 but it is harder to manage than my Ruger 77 in .338 Win Mag.....

The 1894 in .45 Colt was a real handful with 300 grain bullets. I did not know such a cute little levergun could kill on both ends like that!
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2009, 07:15 PM
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Two things tamed my son's 1895 when he got it at the age of 12. Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad which helped a lot but his cheek was still getting beat up. Then we Mag-Na-Ported it. After that the rifle did not jump up out of the rest and he could shoot much longer before getting tired and almost all of the pain was gone. There is something specific to the MNPing though. My Guide Gun with its round ports has considerably more muzzle jump than does his 1895SS (old designation for the standard rifle) with the dual trapezoidal ports of the MNP. I know some people don't like porting but it works, and with the MNP, unlike brakes, it does not increase the muzzle blast to a great degree, some yes, but not all that much.
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ︻┳テ=一 View Post
Yeah you get the picture, the fact remains that it will work when you need it to tell me you care about recoil when a big bear is running you down wanting to eat you!!!!!!!!

LOL You got a point!! If Im in big bear country it will be a round with some serrious booty behind it!! Not to mention the scent trail ill leave while I run away
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2009, 07:50 PM
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When I am shooting some of the faster loads I use a PAST slip on pad on my shoulder. However, I also quickly realized that the Marlin was much more pleasant to shoot with the 405 grain loads going about 1600 fps, rather than a couple of hundred fps faster.
I generally shoot mine from the sitting or kneeling position, but really fast loads still hurt my shoulder.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:50 PM
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Glad to know that others feal this way also. I was kinda fealing a little sissey. I gues Im gona just have to find one load that works for it and stick to it and shoot it from non-bench positions for hot loads. Even the mild loads start to hurt after a while. Anyway thanks for the info.

Im going to look into magna porting and maby changing the recoil pad. Does magna porting hurt the velocity or proformance of the bullet? Not the it would matter much. Just wandering
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2009, 10:11 AM
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I once owned a Ruger #3 single shot in 45-70. Notice I said once... Straight stock, plastic butt plate, six pounds and tears in the corner of your eyes. As I have stated before, I used to keep some heavy loads around just for the guys at the range who were complaining about their 06 kicking. Here bud, give this little gun a try......

I know what you mean about the Marlin though, my 444 has a bit of a bump to it. A limbsaver recoil pad helped a lot.
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Last edited by jodum; 05-27-2009 at 10:13 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2009, 02:00 PM
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I have the Marlin 1895G as well, and shoot it only with mild/moderate loads or factory (safe-for-all-rifle) stuff. I don't consider it a long-range proposition in any event, use receiver sights and anything beyond 80-100 yards is out of range as far as I'm concerned. It is intended as a guide gun which I assume means for close in defense. I suspect that even a moderately loaded 45/70 would be enough gun for a cranky griz. If I want to shoot hot 45s I'll get a 458!
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2009, 03:31 PM
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You build yourdelf an offhand shooting platform. Then shhot it from the offhand position. An old step ladder is a good starting point.
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2009, 03:58 PM
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He's right you know...that stock was not designed, nor does it really function well from a low bench. Is a little better from a high bench, but your body still can't really roll with the punches. Works fine (at least for me) off hand...kind of like a light 12gr. with heavy loads: if you're standing up and limber, it doesn't beat you nearly as badly.

Have used a step ladder as a rest for really hot lods in a 45-70 ruger #3, and prefer it for antying with .375H&H recoil or more REGUARDLESS of stocking.

May be that when well paswt 50, that kind of thin gets to you...or it may be that "older" and "wiser" go together for a reason.
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapzoo View Post
Glad to know that others feal this way also. I was kinda fealing a little sissey. I gues Im gona just have to find one load that works for it and stick to it and shoot it from non-bench positions for hot loads. Even the mild loads start to hurt after a while. Anyway thanks for the info.

Im going to look into magna porting and maby changing the recoil pad. Does magna porting hurt the velocity or proformance of the bullet? Not the it would matter much. Just wandering
Not a lick. The loads that we have tested in the .45-70 and my .458 Win mag both before and after MNP shows no change in velocity. In theory, and theory only, since you are venting gas the last two inches of barrel it should lower velocity, but not in reality. I was shooting the same reloads shot over the same chronograph, set up at the same distance, and shot only two weeks apart on days with roughly the same temperature. The velocities were the same as were the MAD, ES, and group size. My son's grouping with the .45-70 improved greatly only because he was not getting busted in the chops every shot. I too found his 45-70 much more pleasant to shoot and MNPing made a world of difference in reducing muzzle jump in the .458 as well as the .45-70. Some will also say it increases muzzle blast. Maybe, but nothing like a brake. In fact, I really cannot tell any increase in MB.
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2009, 06:11 AM
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Well, they aren't bazookas, so that might have something to do with it. And the definition of 'hot loads' is subject to interpretation. But it is true that the marlins are not comfortable to shoot from a bench. And they were never meant to be.

A hot load to me is the one that penetrates best, and from my guide gun that's a 525g bullet that departs at a measly 1470 fps. It penetrates a dozen or so jugs of water, or a fir firewood round, and will shoot clean thru any animal in the western hemisphere from any angle. All that with very moderate recoil. My daughter shoots it accurately, easily busting clays on the 50 yard berm with the peep sight. Offhand.

A 425g bullet moving at the same velocity will still take any animal in NA, with much less recoil, but also with less overall penetration. It's still a great game cartridge though.

Recoil isn't what produces the results with the 45/70. Some folks are more recoil sensitive than others. A bunch of shot in the buttstock is a time tested recoil dampening method, as are the other items mentioned above.

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  #16  
Old 05-28-2009, 06:32 AM
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A Pachmayr recoil pad can do wonders. It will increase the length of pull but it really tames the bite on the shoulder. I shoot a cowboy model and use a buttcuff from Levergun Leather. Not too bad for recoil reduction either.

You can shoot the heavy hard cast loads, but you don't have to shoot max to get the penetration. I have a load for the Beartooth 425gr PileDriver Jr. that has it moving at around 1500 fps at 100 yards and 1400 at 150. That should do for just about anything in NA, and it is not at all bad on the shoulder.
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:31 PM
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I too love my Marlin leverguns but Mike G's comments (#5) are right on the mark. The perceived recoil and resultant battering dished out by the stock designs can be somewhat disheartening. The guide series and other straight stock models have a more pronounced drop from the wrist to the heel of the buttstock which increases slap produced by the comb upon the cheek. The angle that the recoil is directed into the shoulder is also different which is more downward onto the shoulder and results in some very uncomfortable punch at the butt end. I have found that the recoil energy being the same that the pistol grip style buttstock is much more comfortable to shoot by comparison. Pachmayr makes a very soft style recoil pad that is made for Trap Guns that get fired as many as 100 or more rounds in a relatively short period of time but it also works very nicely on rifles . It only comes in a grind to fit version but it really takes the black and blue out of the heavy hitters. I just installed one of these thick (KLT Magnum Ultra-Soft Trap Pads on my 1895 LTD VI 24" .45-70 and am quite satisfied with the results. Brownells also sells a variety of recoil reduction devices (such as C&H Research's Mercury Recoil Suppressor) that are installed in the stock and use inertia to help reduce the kick. They are somewhat spendy but are a potential solution to your problem, especially if used in combination with a recoil pad. If you have a grind to fit type pad installed make sure that you use the installation proceedure to adjust the pull length to your personal dimensions. You will find that doing this will improve the performance of your modifications. If you can do the installation yourself you should be able to save upwards of $150-$200. As Kragman 71 stated, these guns weren't designed to be shot from the bench but as hunting guns that were fast handlers in the woods and usually snap shot from the offhand position. Don't give up on finding a cure for the problem, there are some fixes out there.
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Last edited by buckasaurus; 06-02-2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: To improve the clarity of the recommendations
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2009, 06:45 PM
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The first thing I noticed after shooting my 1895 CB a few years ago was that it kicked like a mule with Remington factory 300 Gr. hollow points and the Winchester 300 Gr. HPs also. I recently obtained a 1895 LTD-VI with a 24" Bbl. that suits me to a tee but it has the same problem (its basically the same rifle, just a couple of inches sawed off the Bbl.)

It sounds like T-Bone is on the right track with his Beartooth, 425 Gr., PileDriver Jr. loads at 1400-1500 fps. I'm interested in learning what he's using for a charge. It sounds like just what the doctor ordered. My LTD-VI kills on one end and maims on the other.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2009, 02:15 PM
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A Limbsaver pad and a standup bench make a guide gun a little nicer to shoot. With that said my 1895gg is the worst kicker i have ever pulled the trigger on. 420grn. bullets at 1900f.p.s. just plain thump on both ends. I have never figured the recoil energy but in a 7 pound rifle it is stout!!
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2009, 06:49 AM
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When I first got my guide gun I took it to the range with some factory loads. No problem not bad to shoot. Then I ran some 430 gr Buffalo Bore +p ammo through her. Holy CRAP! I thought I was going to loose my teeth. It was the most painful firearm I had ever shot, and I am not recoil sensitive. I could only get abpout 6 down range before I had to end it. My shoulder was black and blue and I could not shoot a rifle for a week.
I was going to sell the gun, it was not fun at all!!!!!

Then I put a slip on limbsaver on it and it tamed it right down. AMEN for Limbsaver the darn thing really works well. My guide gun still has one on it.
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