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  #1  
Old 02-16-2012, 09:53 AM
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2300+fps in 45/70?


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I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere!

One day I think I can "settle" for the little lever 45s then the next day I want a full sized beast eater. So I'll just come out and tell you guys, the experts, what I'm HOPING, WANTING & TRYING to specifically do!!!

I don't need to shoot clean through buffs or grizs, I want a big bore (preferably a 45/70, 450Marlin etc but I'm not opposed to a 444 either) that I can shoot a 250grain bullet fast enough to sight in 3" high at 100yds and have it still be essentially dead on or less than 2" low at 200yds and I want the bullet to still be able to plow lengthwise/TX heartshot, through a 250# whitetail standing 200yds through the cypress in my swamp!!!

Ok here's what I've come up with, Hornady has a new .458 Monoflex bullet for loading. Essentially their copy of a Barnes with an added gumtip in the nose. (They offer it in the 45/70 in Leverevolution but it won't hit 2000fps from anything less than a 24" barrel) Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .458 45 CAL

Without being in dangerous pressure territory, does anyone know if the 45/70 could launch this particular bullet in excess of 2300fps from a 1895??? (If not I suppose I'm back to a 460 Smith in a Ruger No. 1)

I have plenty of rifles already capable of this, but I just want a big bore "slapper down now" and really hope to keep it a lever gun!
HL
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2012, 11:04 AM
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YOu can do it with a 444. Not sure about the 45-70
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogwai View Post
YOu can do it with a 444. Not sure about the 45-70
+1. The .444 LE load will do all you ask, I do believe. The new 265gr FN Superformance might just do it now as well if it's actually starting out at 2400 FPS as advertised....
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:34 AM
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I'm becoming accustomed to using all no-lead bullets out of necessity and really prefer them now that their killing ability has been proven. The excellent 250 Barnes TSX can easily be driven in excess of 2300FPS with no pressure issues. I don't own a Marlin, though, just 1886 Winchesters and a Browning.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:54 AM
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In case you don't believe my personal experiences with the 250 Barnes here is the load data from the Barnes Reloading Manual No 4. As you can see, it is very easy to obtain your targeted velocity and much more.
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2300+fps in 45/70?-cimg2842.jpg  
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mike View Post
In case you don't believe my personal experiences with the 250 Barnes here is the load data from the Barnes Reloading Manual No 4. As you can see, it is very easy to obtain your targeted velocity and much more.
Thanks for posting! Have you used the bullet for hunting yet?
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2012, 12:54 PM
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Yes, I have taken two large mule deer with the my .45-90 and the 250 TSX. One was close, at about 80 yds, the other nearly twice that. Both fell immediately when hit. No bullet recovered from the close in buck; it kept on going. The bullet remained in longer distance buck and was perfectly petaled against the opposite ribs. Zero bullet weight loss with those Barnes TSX bullets. I also now use them exclusively in my 7X57 and .30-06s and .300 H&H. I am going to load some 165 TTSXs for my cousin's .300 Wby. those bullets are the REAL DEAL.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2012, 02:18 PM
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Go online to Hodgdons Powder's reloading...there are several loads for 300 gr bullets that reach 2400 plus fs and stay within the 40KCUP pressure limits of the Marlin 1895 if that is the 1895 you are talking about...same for the 450 Marlin cartridge, so hitting 2300fs with a 250 gr bullet should be easy.

There is also plenty of data on the Alliant and Accurate Arms powder companies.

If you want less drop then use a pointy bullet with a higher BC AND a bit more weight...they go hand in hand.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mike View Post
Yes, I have taken two large mule deer with the my .45-90 and the 250 TSX. One was close, at about 80 yds, the other nearly twice that. Both fell immediately when hit. No bullet recovered from the close in buck; it kept on going. The bullet remained in longer distance buck and was perfectly petaled against the opposite ribs. Zero bullet weight loss with those Barnes TSX bullets. I also now use them exclusively in my 7X57 and .30-06s and .300 H&H. I am going to load some 165 TTSXs for my cousin's .300 Wby. those bullets are the REAL DEAL.
Thank you, Sir, for that report. I have killed deer with Barnes "X"s in at least four different chamberings, but never in a .458 flavor. My mind is definitely wondering.
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2012, 04:37 PM
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I often used the Ruger No1 and No 3 data for my Winchesters. None exceed 45K which is well within the ability of even the originals with nickle steel barrels. With the Barnes data that is unnecessary; there is plenty of power from the loads shown.
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  #11  
Old 02-20-2012, 06:38 PM
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Wow, these express loads for the 45-70 caused me to look for 444 possibilities. See the Barnes 200 gr XPB at >2500 fps. If they stay together like they do for other calibers, that could be a great deer round.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/...6c7ba9c659d36d
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2012, 08:25 AM
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Oh there's NO doubt that Barnes is "THE BEST there is"!!! I've been a Barnes disciple for nearly 2 decades now. EVERYTHING I've got in my signature has Barnes in them (except the 35Rem). The Hornady I posted on is their new Barnes copy, their Monoflex isn't their standard SST or FTX, it's a solid gilding metal with a gum tip. At fat bullet, slow velocities at 200+yd distances the BC helps precious trajectory. That's the ONLY reason I was asking about them over a Barnes, should make a helluva bullet for my Savage smokeless ML as well.

I just need reloading info on it tho,
HL
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2012, 01:52 PM
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a 450 Marlin and a 300g bullet will hit 2300ft/sec all day long

Snake
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2012, 07:04 PM
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D...N! They load the 45-70 with 250s. up to 55k psi in the Ruger no 1. can the 45-70 brass take that??? Man, even at minimum load its 2600+fps. Hmmmm maybe I'll buy the boy a 1895 but I'll get a no. 1 and pray we never cross ammo...
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:00 AM
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I don't think of a 200gr bullet at 2500 fps as a good deer load. If you angle thru meat, and if you kill enough deer you will angle a bullet thru meat, the meat will turn to jello unfit for human consumption.

I shot some number of deer with 338WM, with bullets starting above 2700 fps, including some 200gr bullets starting close to 4000fps. These are not good deer loads UNLESS you're targeting deer 4 or 500 yards away.

Boiler room shots just blow holes thru both sides and ruin the heart and if they're a little high ruin the tenderloins and if they're a scotch higher they blow out 3 vertebrae and frag the backstraps and if the shot is a little forward they can also ruin the entire neck roast.

By way of contrast a 460gr bullet traveling at a positively sedate 1200fps can pass thru the hind quarters taking out the hip ball joint with ALMOST NO COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

But I hunted for meat, and made a lot of it. I discovered that little hot bullets ruin meat if they deflect thru it. It's a me thing, or maybe a meat thing, I guess.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2012, 11:16 AM
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Griz---

Indeed. That is why the older I get and the more familiar I am with hunting white tail deer on my own land I go for head shots at close range...

Sure I can then hunt with a 22 LR...... but that would not be any fun at all, so I much more prefer 30-06, 30-30, 12 gauge, 357 Mag or even a 243. It also provides OPTIONS: Other than just head shots...

Last edited by zoar; 02-22-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2012, 03:42 PM
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I don't think...
Griz,
The copper X bullets are a different beast. Have you ever used them on game?
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mogwai View Post
Griz,
The copper X bullets are a different beast. Have you ever used them on game?
More than likely not mog, alot of folks have still never seen Barnes (or the new solid copper/gilding copies that every bullet maker now offers) in action. They simply don't believe the hype because it flies in the face of as much as nearly 2centuries of conventional wisdom!
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  #19  
Old 02-24-2012, 06:21 AM
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Griz,
The copper X bullets are a different beast. Have you ever used them on game?
When I was meat hunting in Alaska the copper bullets did not exist, or if they did I never heard of them. It was before the internet.
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  #20  
Old 02-24-2012, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HatchieLuvr View Post
More than likely not mog, alot of folks have still never seen Barnes (or the new solid copper/gilding copies that every bullet maker now offers) in action. They simply don't believe the hype because it flies in the face of as much as nearly 2centuries of conventional wisdom!

So, are you saying that a copper bullet will pass thru the spinal column without blowing it to fragments and damaging the meat?
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