Hi WinMike,
I am expecting to pick up my new Uberti 1873 carbine, 19" 357 mag, sometime this week, and until reading your post, I've been somewhat apprehensive about my decision to go with the 357 mag.

So many of all the many posts, articles and etc I've read, basically suggest that it's not a question of if, but rather when, I end up with the bolt blasting through my eye, as the action is too weak for the 357.

I love the 357 mag in my handgun, and was very excited as I anticipated how much better it would perform fired through a 19" rifle. Plus, having the same ammo for both the handgun and the rifle is something else I was very excited about. I was planing on messing around with some hand loads to try to find that one special load/projectile mix that shoots primo through my rifle.

So, after reading what's been said about running 357's through the 1873, I began to feel kind of stupid for buying the rifle.

The thought that the rifle was not strong enough to handle the 357 never crossed my mind. Who'd go to buy a gun, then ask themselves; gee, I wonder if this gun can handle the charge it's built to shoot? If the thought did cross your mind, you'd naturally assume it would be, or they wouldn't make it.

As I condensed what I've read, the recommended high pressure for the 1873 was around 23K, so I decided that I'd better buy some shells that were below the 35K pressure of the 357.

So, I decided to make the best of it, and continue to look forward to the arrival of my new rifle, especially since I got word that my new rifle should be here soon.

I bought some 38 special +p's, which fall below the "recommended high pressure", and figured I'd just shoot them in the rifle instead of the 357's.

Then I read that the 38 sp's don't feed well in the 1873. So I figured that worse case, I can load them one at a time. That's no fun!

OK, now I am really asking myself what did I get myself into.

Let me tell you that it was a breath of fresh air to finally find an opinion from someone who has actually shot 357's through the 1873, especially as much as you have, which is over 200 rounds a month.

I've been waiting since the gun was ordered last March for this rifle. One was shipped last November, but we had to send it back as the finish was really not good. There were bubbles in the finish on the wood, and someone over buffed the receiver to the point that they "gouged" it, and there were quite a bit of scratches on the side of the receiver, and dings right through the blueing as well. The dealer suggested that we should send it back and get replacement. I hated to do it as the wood on that gun was beautiful. I'd be lucky to get one with wood like that again. But, I agreed, and we sent it back.

So, many months of anticipation, then reading that my rifle will blow up in my face, and I can't feed 38 spec's through it, then one finally arrives and it's nowhere near what I expected regarding the fit and finish. Let me just say that I can't begin to express my feeling of joy at that time.

My expression must have looked like the coyote on Roadrunner, after the ACE bomb he planted to get the Roadrunner, just blew up in his face!

After reading your post, I felt renewed. It was such a lift that I read it about four times, so thanks again for your experienced input.

Question; have you tried to feed 38 spec's through it? And are the results you posted from hand loads only, or is off the shelf ammo included in the rounds fired?

I bought some Remington 357's, and Winchester 38 spec +p's, both in 125 gr. jacked hollow's. At least I wanted to have flat top's in the tube. No since having that blow up too! LOL

In closing, because of all the controversy, it's rather odd that Uberti hasn't made a formal attempt to address the topic by saying why they know their new modern-built 1873 rifle can absolutely handle the 357's and 44 mag's. That would put an end to the discussion.

I too feel that they must be using "better metal", and that their engineers know what they're doing, but it would be nice to hear it from them.

Take care and thanks again, WinMike,

370Z

I have two Uberti model 73's and at one time owned a 45 colt model 73. No company is going to offer for sale a rifle that will knowingly cause a lawsuit. That said, and knowing how the bolt on a 73 rifle is made I would question how much I would enjoy shooting it if I were firing heavy magnum loads. I shoot 38 special ammo in both of my 357 Uberti model 73's. I have a Marlin 1894 in 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45 Colt, I don't hesitate to use any of them with heavier loads, but I would think about it in a 73. If for some reason the two piece bolt in a 73 separated, there is nothing but the hammer between the end of the bolt and your shooting eye. The later rifles have a better designed mechanism holding the two pieces of the bolt together, but you only have one right eye.

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If its got a cork, I'll drink it - if it's got a tune, I'll dance to it - if it's got a trigger, I'll shoot it - if it's got hair, I'll ride it

Apparently, your 1873 feeds the 38 spec well, and that's good news.

I have absolutely no problem shooting 38 specials, or the +p's in my 1873. The pressure of both, 17,000 for the 38 spec, and 18,500 for the +p's, seem to be unquestionably safe for the rifle, as they are well below the "recommended limit" of 23K.

I have a S&W Bodyguard revolver in 38 spec that was not made to handle 38+p's. I contacted S&W about shooting +p's and they said it would be OK to fire the +p's "once in a while."

Prior to calling S&W, I had not fired the +p through it, and after hearing the response form S&W, I have not and will not fire a +P through it. Why push it? That little Bodyguard is a favorite of mine, and I do not want to chance damaging it, myself, or a bystander by pushing it's limits. There's a lot of good loads out there in 38 spec that perform very well. At least I've been happy with them.

Back to the 1873; I'd be fine with the 38 spec's, and have no concern about shooting the +p's through it. As my last post said, my only concern over the 38's was when it was mentioned that they don't feed well.

I couldn't imagine why they wouldn't feed and cycle just fine, the block just lifts them up and the bolt shoves them straight into the barrel. No angles involved.

My plan was to use the 38's for burning through at the range, and the 357's for longer range stuff like hunting woodchucks.

But mostly, I see this rifle as just a fun gun to admire, enjoy having, and enjoy shooting. The difference between the two charges discussed is not really a big deal for me. I just want to shoot the gun, get comfortable with it, get good with it, be able to take it all apart and put it back together again, and generally just have fun with it. But staying safe with it is number one.

Hopefully, my rifle will arrive soon, at least that's what I was told by Uberti Customer Service, and I can start messing around with it, and answer some of my own questions.

As long as the 38 specials feed and cycle well, I'll be very happy.

When I first got my '73, I grabbed samples of every .357 ammo I own, most of them handloads.

The first cartridges I loaded were a bunch of SWC (Keith-type) and they wouldn't feed! You can imagine my chagrin.

Then, I loaded some factory JSP and they fed fine....and the light went off. Notice the shape of a JSP/JHP.....and then look at the profile of the original bullets in the '73 calibers, 44-40 & 38-40? And then look at the profiles of typical lead RNFP bullets.

Eureka! Those who've examined the photos/diagrams of the '73, but don't own one, tell me that the '73 loading block "slides the cartridge into the chamber just like a torpedo into a submarine chamber."

No, it doesn't. The loading block stops slightly shy of the chamber entrance, and while RNFP bullets slide easily up and into the chamber, bullets with driving bands ahead of the brass will jam said bands at the chamber entrance.

So, the answer is easy for me: I'll save all my SWC and wadcutters, etc, etc. for my single-shot rifles and my revolvers, and I'll continue to use factory JSP/JHP and/or RNFP (my preference) in my '73.

Essentially, we're just coming around full circle to the bullets the rifle was designed for!

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If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

370z, I forgot to answer your "will it feed 38 Special" question, but I guess you've already answered it yourself. Just keep in mind the bullet shape: RN, RNFP or other similar shapes. Haven't tried, but I'm pretty sure wadcutters won't feed. Glad to hear they work.

Also in your last, you stated: In closing, because of all the controversy, it's rather odd that Uberti hasn't made a formal attempt to address the topic by saying why they know their new modern-built 1873 rifle can absolutely handle the 357's and 44 mag's. That would put an end to the discussion.

Honestly (and I say this respectfully ), except for a few internet honks spouting uninformed opinions, there's no "controversy" for Uberti to address. If Uberti....and other companies......spoke to every ill-informed "I-Expert," they'd have to hire a bazillion PR flacks just to keep track of the nonsense.....and then, there'd be a bunch of threads and posts about how XXXXOOO company "is engaged in a big cover-up...." Just because a poster in a thread claims to be a mechanical or metallurgical engineer doesn't mean he are one.....

We do know this: Uberti, Winchester, Remington, Browning, Ruger, Procter & Gamble, General Electric etc., etc., ad nauseum don't put products on the market that are known/proven to be weak and ineffectual for their intended purpose. Companies are aware of our litigious society and if there is an issue, they quietly (if possible!) remove the offending product from the market.

I don't see that happening with your Uberti....Enjoy!

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If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

Thanks WinMike

Good point. The internet is a great source for research, but it does take some doing to sift it all. I'll listen to someone's theory, but I prefer to hear one's hands-on experiences instead, which is why I appreciated your post.

And I do plan on enjoying my 1873. I'm looking forward to the call that it's ready for me to go pick her up!

I would feel much more comfortable shooting an 1873 reproduction chambered for .357 than one in .44 Mag. I'm not an engineer, and don't even portray one on T.V., but it seems like although the .357 and .44 would have similar chamber pressures, the thrust against the bolt would be much greater with the .44 Mag, than the .357, due to its larger rim cross section. It would be interesting to know if Uberti did any design tweaking to supplement the possible improvements in metallurgy. I, for one, am happy with shooting low pressure 44/40 loads in my Cimarron 1873 short rifle, and have a Marlin 1894 and Browning B92 for the .44 Mags.

Yes the bolt thrust would be greater.

But, a point many here fail to grasp, the original Winchesters were made from stuff that is literally butter soft compared to the materials we have today. Cast iron, brass, soft steel, etc. Modern steel alloys can be heat treated upwards of ten times stronger than what was available in 1873.

There just is no comparison.

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MikeG

There is one at my local gun shop and I do like it. It has a shotgun style but-stock. But it is otherwise a 1873 Win clone. It does seen slightly heavier than one in 45 Colt. The skill of workmanshipe and fit and finish is equil to any Uberti 1873 on the market. It seems like a great rifle

V/R
J.Budd

There is also no comparison between an action that depends on what is basically an overextended knee joint for lockup and one that relies on the bolt being securely locked by bolt lugs or by one or two massive, rigid locking lugs closely fitted to the bolt and frame.

I go back to the Wright Flyer comparison -- build it out of modern materials like carbon fiber laminates, and it will be immeasurably stronger -- but it still won't stand up long to swapping the original 12 hp motor for a 1200 hp one, or even a 120, even though it could possibly fly okay for a while.

.....1873 Win clone. It does seen slightly heavier than one in 45 Colt......

I've noticed the same....I believe it's because a .357 hole is smaller than a .45 hole in the same diameter barrel.

Actually, if I had my druthers, I'd have really considered a '73 in 44 Special. That's a cartridge that's more "modern" (although barely so) than the original 44-40/38/40 cartridges, yet fairly close to the original "hole" size. Fortunately, for my piece of mind, Uberti doesn't chamber their '73 in 44 Special, so I didn't have to agonize over that decision....

Still....I suppose I could re-chamber.....naw......

And speaking of order dilemmas, I really, really like half-octagon barrels. But Uberti's is an 18" barrel, and in the photo, it looks too short. So I went with the 20" Short rifle, and it looks fine (please, don't anyone write and say they have the 1/2 octagon and it's the nicest-looking rifle in the history of the world! )

OK, I'm headed out to the garage to replace the 12 hp engine in my Wright Flyer with a 1200 hp GE jet turbine.....

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If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

All of the toggle action rifles, 66's and 73's are fun to shoot. Sometimes you do run into a feeding problem and sometimes you won't. Both the 66 and the 73 are sensitive to bullet length, but you won't notice that unless you make some reloads using short light weight bullets. If that happens you can tweak the action enough make it work even with short bullets. To find out just what needs to be done, load the magazine and work the action slowly while watching what the cartridges do, if the bullets are too short they will move forward back into the magazine when you close the bolt, if they don't you need to change the angle of that block that raises the cartridge and aligns it with the barrel. Keep the magazine tube clean so the cartridges will slide easily if necessary. Above all, have fun. If you have any problems with this, let me know and I'll try and get some pictures for you to look at.

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If its got a cork, I'll drink it - if it's got a tune, I'll dance to it - if it's got a trigger, I'll shoot it - if it's got hair, I'll ride it

I have an afterburner for that engine somewhere out back if you're interested.

Oh, and I have the 1/2 octagon and it's the nicest-looking rifle in the history of the world!

(just kidding on that one)

That's good to know. I'll keep that in mind as it would probably be better in the long run to just stay with the projectile length that works best when making up some hand loads.

Thanks for the offer of help.

I've got a bunch of great advise and tips, just renewed my membership at the gun club, bought a couple boxes of ammo, planing on ordering a 22 piece super set screw driver set from magna tip, and a tube wrench, now all that I need to do is to GET MY RIFLE!! It is supposed to arrive at my local gun shop soon. I was told late last week or early this week. March 1st it'll be a year since I placed the order.

I have been very pleased with the 20 or so Uberti's I own/have owned, but agree with pisgah, the lockup on the old knee joint toggle design doesn't even remotely compare with the "bank vault" lockup on a Win. 1892 or Marlin 1894.

I hope you don't live in New York, cause by definition, the 73's that hold more than 7 rounds are now assault rifles. If it doesn't come in, the local dealer here has a 73 rifle on the rack, beggin to be taken home.

Since this whole thing just hit the fan yesterday, at least the people I know and have talked to about it, as well as myself, are a bit confused as to the fine points of it all.

I do have a copy of the Bill that the Gov signed, but find it somewhat unclear in spots, and have not had the time to read the whole thing, and have the feeling that unless I have an attorney at my side, I'll still be confused on parts of it, so again, I think things will be clearer and better understood in the near future.

I have two references that "appear" to exempt the Uberti, as well as pump and bolt actions, but again, I am going to wait a bit, hoping for more clarity:

From the NRA site:
Assault weapons does not include:
• any rifle, shotgun or pistol that: is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action;*or
• has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
• an antique firearm as defined under federal law;
• a*semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of
ammunition;
• a*semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable
magazine;
• a*rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof, specifically exempted from the federal
assault weapon ban list as such weapon was manufactured on October 1, 1993.*

From a newspaper article:
The weapons ban focuses on semi-automatic weapons, guns that move a bullet into the chamber from a magazine with each pull of the trigger. The proposal would not restrict bolt-action rifles, for example, which depend on a more mechanical reloading system.

So, we'll see how things shake out.

As far as the NRA's definition, you can bet that's not taken into account in any bill from NY. I wouldn't bet the farm that anything that holds more than 7 rounds would be exempted, no matter the action type. Afterall, they really want to ban ALL guns. Not just those that look menacing. You can assault anyone with any gun, so by that definition, any gun is an assault weapon.

Wanted to say that I picked up my new Uberti 1873 in 357 mag yesterday, and it's a beauty! The fit and finish is great, and I couldn't ask for nicer wood.

I haven't cleaned it yet, just been looking at it. After waiting for almost a year, I need to adjust to the fact that the wait is over and I finally have my rifle.

I read through the instructions that came in the box, then I grabbed some 38 specials and loaded three in the tube, and cycled them through. The Winchester 125 gr 38 spc's +p's cycled through like butter. Absolutely no problems. the lead on the tips hardly had a mark on them upon inspection after ejection.

Then I did the same with three 357 mag's, and once again, they cycled through cleanly and smoothly.

I was looking forward to running some 38's through the rifle, hoping they would feed and cycle real well, as I'll probably be shooting a lot of them, mainly because I can use them in both my rifle and my 38 spec Bodyguard revolver.

I plan on using the 357's for varmint hunting and longer range target shooting. I used to have a S&W 357 mag revolver with an 8 3/8" barrel, and was very impressed with the accuracy and stopping power at longer distances. That's why I wanted to get the Uberti with a 19" barrel in 357. I know how well the cartridge performed in my revolver and felt it would be even better shot through the longer rifle barrel. Even though the spin is different between the two, the longer barrel on my rifle should add some plusses to the performance of the 357. I'm looking forward to the experience.

So, for me, I've got the best of both worlds with a rifle that shoots both the 357 mag and the 38 spec.

That's it for now. It's time to go and look at my rifle some more! Maybe I'll even pick her up a few times. Today I'm going to clean her up real nice.