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  #1  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:15 PM
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6.8 or 223???


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I've been a gun nut for 35 years and today was the first time I really "looked" at AR's. I'm an LEO and in a new dept that DOES NOT issue patrol rifles but does allow us to carry them if we can pass the dept shooting test. I never was too interested in the things until now. I was at a gun store today and saw a good looking useD AR (don't remember the brand) in 6.8 something. I've barely heard of it so I had the sales rep show me a round. Is the 6.8 that much more than the 223? The round looks like it would be decent for deer at shorter ranges. I'm was told I could swap the upper for another caliber very easily. I do reload so getting ammo is easy. SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2012, 05:53 PM
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First of all, thank you for putting yourself in harm's way to preserve the rule of law in this country.

I think everything you stated above, or were told, is accurate. The 6.8SPC cartridge is definitely more than a 223 and is a decent choice for smaller big game animals, at reasonable ranges.

If you bought the AR in 6.8 and purchased a 2nd upper in 223 for your patrol rifle, I think you'd be in pretty good shape. I'm not sure your dept. would want you carrying it as set up for 6.8SPC?

You'll definitely want to reload as the 6.8 rounds can get pretty expensive and hard to find. I had no interest in getting an AR until some of the cooler options started coming out.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2012, 09:11 AM
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The 6.8 SPC is a .270 caliber bullet in a case that fits the standard 223/5.56 lower. You will have to buy mags specifically for the 6.8, possibly with the exception of the Magpul stuff. The standard AR mags "bulge" out when loaded with the 6.8, and won't fit into the magwell.
Yes, all it takes is the standard 2-pin push, and swap uppers.
It should work fine for deer at close range, However....
You need to stick with bullets designed for the 6.8, as the velocity is MUCH lower than the classic .270's; meaning the bullets(besides being too long) will be below velocity operating window. There are also several different chambers out there, such as the SPC II, and DMR for a couple of examples.

Seems the 6.8 is the SECOND time Remington claims "The army mis-read" the throat dimentions......In any case the result is the same, longer throats for "more speed" to reach original claims.

Last edited by Darkker; 12-24-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2012, 12:13 PM
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I personally would go with the 6.8 and what Darkker said is spot on. The only thing I would add is make sure you get the SPC II chamber or the DMR chamber, but only one company I know of does the DMR and I think they have closed up shop. AR Performance does their own version called the 6.8 ARP which is very close to the DMR IIRC, but any of the three are OK. Personally, the only thing I'd make darned sure of is that it is not the first run standard 6.8 chamber. And also make sure you get at least a 1:11 twist barrel. The 1:10 twist is OK and does work, I have one, but the 1:11 to 1:12 twist seem to be less sensitive to hot loads. All 4 of my 6.8s have the SPC II chamber and work perfectly, even with the old really hot SSA Tactical loads, but their current Tactical loads are not as hot as they were at first. Too many popped and blown primers in non-6.8 SPC II chambers so they backed them off a little in case they found their way into a standard SPC chamber.
Go over to 68forums.com and read up. There are stickies about what companies use what chambers...
It is a great round and the only negative is the use of proprietary mags. You cannot use 5.56 mags for more than 3-5 rounds. You must get caliber specific 6.8 SPC mags and they are not that expensive unless you go for the PRI mags. Those things are way overpriced IMO and I have a few of them but dozens of CProducts mags and use them without issue.
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2012, 03:00 PM
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6.5 Grendal
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2012, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soldierofchrist View Post
6.5 Grendal
Explain please.
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkker View Post
It should work fine for deer at close range, However....
You need to stick with bullets designed for the 6.8, as the velocity is MUCH lower than the classic .270's; meaning the bullets(besides being too long) will be below velocity operating window.
Also the bullet weights are fairly on the light side... generally they top out at 115gr/120gr where 130gr is considered the gold standard for the .270Win. For larger/tougher animals, you might want to go with a monometal.

I still like the 6.5 Grendel more... 120gr in 6.5 is perfect for medium game and they even offer 130gr... they keep their velocity/energy for much longer, too...

But I know a number of folks who have 6.8SPC and they enjoy them.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-2012, 02:16 AM
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You might want to look at the 300ACC blackout instead of the 6.8. Similar performance, lower cost ammo and uses standard mags, with no loss of capacity.
For LEO use a .223 does make alot of sense though, it is sutable for just about any situation you might find your self in and is less likely to overpenetrate.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2012, 04:48 AM
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As noted there are different generation chamberings for the 6.8, if you go that route be sure to get the newer. It has generated a pretty good following and with the right ammo has a pretty good success rate with hunting pigs, deer & the like.

The Grendel has fantastic performance, including at distance, but uses caliber specific magazines and a different bolt. Wolf has adapted it and offers a fairly low dollar load, as well as others, but it's nowhere near as popular as the 6.8.

The 300 AAC Blackout (300 BLK) is a slight rejiggering of SSK's 300 Whisper. It has been "legitimized" from a propriatery round and is SAMMI approved. With 115-125 gr bullets it's a very close ballistic twin to the classic 7.62x39, or it has an"alter-ego" when loaded with bullets in the 200 gr range for sub-sonic operation with a silencer. It's a VERY efficient case and produces max velocities with short barrels, even very short barrels. It is versital and accurate enough that I just read an article yesterday of a gentleman who is using it to compete @ 600 yards in accross the course portions of CMP shooting. Said it has a rainbow trajectory compared to faster rounds but it shoots very well even at that distance.

The 300 BLK has generated tremendous industry support, with Remington heavily involved and prducing ammo. It also uses standard AR magazines & bolts. If I were looking for a patrol rifle
I'd go this direction if getting anything other than the .223/5.56. Either should work very well at distances likely to be encountered. The 5.56 will shoot flatter & generally have less risk of over penetration, richochet & ensuing collateral damage, the 300 has better stopping ability.
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2012, 05:19 AM
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I have seen a few videos by Hickok45 on the 300Blackout and like the idea of using standard 223 mags. I also reload so making ammo is no problem once you buy the components. Sometimes I hate having so many choices!!!
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2012, 05:55 AM
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If using it for LE duty, I see where things could get somewhat mixed. If allowed, I would prefer the 6.5 or 6.8 bullets. Usually, if you're needing that much fire power, it's in a situation you will need to be shooting through things like vehicles, doors, walls etc. The heavier bullets are going to be much more suited for getting the job done when faced with that type situation. The down side to this is the heavier bullets greatly increase the possibility of collateral damage, mainly passing through the objects or person you're wanting to take down and hitting someone else. The same reason LE gets very specific about their pistol bullets.

I'm firm believer in having the upper hand in fire power if my butt is the one getting shot at, and have no problems doing what I have to eliminate any threat to me, but to accidently hit someone, maybe a small child in the process could cause serious problems, mentally and financially.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taco650 View Post
Explain please.
6.5 Grendel may not look as good right up front but it finishes much better, it has a much better BC bullet and will carry energy much farther then either of the two calibers and it will shoot flatter then the 6.8 SPC. Compare the ballistics.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:15 PM
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Oh come on guys. I have the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8, 4 of the 6.8s in fact. There is not a honest nickel's difference between them. At long range, really long range over 400 yards, yes the Grendel is flatter but so what? Are you really going to be shooting zombies at ranges past 400 yards? The OP did not ask about the Grendel, so why not give the OP credit for doing some homework and needing help on the final choice? If we turn this into a "you should consider this" thread it will become a tissing match just like they always do when talking about the Grendel VS. the SPC. EVERYONE Has a favorite AR caliber, and mine most certainly is not the 6.8 or the 5.56, but the OP did not ask what my favorite is, he asked about the 6.8 and the 5.56. But if you want to compare ballistics, then the OP is going to have to decide what he honestly wants to use the rifle for and at what ranges he is REALISTICALLY going to be shooting. If one wants a heavy hitting "put 'em down with one round" AR for CQB, shooting through barriers, or for semi-dangerous game at spitting distance it is not going to be either of these mid caliber zippos but something that throws bullets over twice as heavy as these lightweights.
Regarding the .300 BO, unless you are going to suppress it then the BO really does not have that much going for it. If you are going to keep it supersonic then there are a lot better choices out there, even the extremely cheap to shoot 7.62 x 39 whips the .300 BO by a good amount.
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Last edited by Big Bore; 09-28-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKeith View Post
If using it for LE duty...
One thing I have to consider is what caliber my dept will allow me to carry. I have not researched this yet so maybe I'm getting the cart before the horse. I can easily see them saying its the .223 and nothing else. Of course that only means that's the upper I have to put on it when the rifle is at work.

Thanks for all of your advice!
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2012, 04:52 AM
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I would go for the .223 and the right ammo. You probably have a hunting rifle already so you dont need a dual purpose rifle.

Nothing wrong with the other calibers.
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:51 AM
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If you are thinking of getting a select-fire model on the departments letterhead...when you leave, the select-fire parts belong to the department (your lower). IOW, the select-fire is authorized, by Bat-Man (BATFE) for your department's use...as long as you work for the department, you can use it, once you leave...IT STAYS.

So, if you want select-fire, get your own tax-stamp.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:10 AM
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One thing, if you're near Ft Benning and can shop there, the S&W is suppose to be 10% off for the next for the next couple of days and S&W has a $100 rebate on that so you can pick one up about $800. I know Glock has special prices on the pistols for LE, I would think someone would have AR-15's with similar discounts.

Last edited by BKeith; 09-29-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:21 PM
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Decades of experience have taught me, for a first gun, given a choice between a standard caliber and a specialized caliber, get the standard caliber. The AR/M16/M4 is the longest serving military rifle in US history and the 5.56/223 is the longest serving cartridge. The 5.56/223 is also an extremely popular civilian and sporting cartridge. This is the condensed wisdom of millions of people of widely varying needs and experience over four decades and counting. Get a 5/56/223 first. Second get a 22 LR upper or clone. Third, fourth, fifth....., 6.8, 204 Ruger, 300 AAC, 6.5 Grendel, 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM, 5.45 mm..... They are all a heap of fun. But none of them are ubiquitous as is 5.56/223.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2012, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BKeith View Post
One thing, if you're near Ft Benning and can shop there, the S&W is suppose to be 10% off for the next for the next couple of days and S&W has a $100 rebate on that so you can pick one up about $800. I know Glock has special prices on the pistols for LE, I would think someone would have AR-15's with similar discounts.
Ft. Benning is an hour away but I can't shop there. I'm not ready to buy, just in the "R&D" phase. I have seen deals out there and they will continue to come.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2012, 08:06 PM
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Get your rifle in 6.8 if the department will permit it. Get a 5.56 upper, if possible. Stack the odds in your favor and play both sides. When push comes to shove and you really have to use your rifle, you'll be better of with the 6.8.

Here's a thought for you. I once worked in a foreign country where I issued 5.56 rifles to my employees. Disappointed, they said to me "Mr. *****?, why you give us ziz gun? Yani, when we shoot zem, sometimes they die, sometimes not. Why you give us ziz gun? Ziz gun, yani, it's not good. We want AK. When we shoot zem with AK they always die. Why you give us ziz little gun. It's not good one.

They had a point. Go bigger if you can do it.
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