» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Handloading > Bullet Casting
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-29-2004, 11:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North central Missouri
Posts: 4
Lyman bullet molds, number reference help?


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Could someone point me to a reference to find out information about Lyman bullet molds when all I know is the number of the mold? I would like to know diameter etc. of the cast bullet and I am not having any luck with my search. Thanks,
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-30-2004, 07:57 AM
Jack Monteith's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 7,788
The first three digits represent the bullet diameter. The second three digits is the design or cherry number in roughly chronological order. So a 358665 mould casts a .358 bullet and is Lyman's 665th design. There's a couple of catches in the design numbers. When Lyman got computerized they padded out the low design numbers with zeros, so an old 3118 is the same as a new 311008.

Minor details. Lyman, then Ideal, had been in business for some 20 years before the numbering system was set up, before 1912, so the first 300 and some aren't in chronological order. It looks like they did the .308s first. Some numbers, particularly round ball numbers, were reassigned. There are very few in the 500 range. The Lyman #46 Reloading Handbook has a chapter about this.

Pictures of most moulds below about 500 are here.
http://www.castpics.net/RandD/Lyman_...man_moulds.htm

Bye
Jack
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-30-2004, 07:35 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sandy, UT
Posts: 1,150
Jack,

Just to give you a hard time, while the chronological/date explanation does seem to work sometimes, how do you explain 3118 and 3589? The cherry style number is somewht chronological, but with the 3118 dating probably to the 1880's or so and the 3589 probably being a 1950 or so design it doesn't always work.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-30-2004, 08:18 PM
Jack Monteith's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 7,788
It looks like a recycled number. One list I got shows a 3089, 100 grains, flat nose, hollow base, as well as the 3589. The chart on page 152 of Lyman #46 shows that the 3589 was listed in Lyman #44 and #45, not earlier, so the 3589 is 1950s or later. Anybody know when #44 was first published?

The list of duplicate numbers on page 145 doesn't list the 3089, but does list a 308156 and the familiar 358156. The article in Lyman #46 was written by Kenneth L. Walters (not Kenneth L. Waters of Pet Loads fame) and he's still researching the history of Lyman-Ideal moulds. The list with the 3089 is from Jon Vidas of Western Bullet, who's also researching them. They've had a few arguments on the Cast Bullet list.

There's another factor. Some bullets were listed as bore size, then changed to as cast size. IIRC, the 299 was cataloged as a 308299, and is now available as the 311299 and the 314299.

Bye
Jack
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-31-2004, 04:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North central Missouri
Posts: 4
Thanks for your help, I was hoping that the numbers would refer to the design in some way,
Thanks,
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2004, 05:09 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 68
Here is the site with information regarding Lyman moulds;
http://www.castpics.net/RandD/Lyman_...man_moulds.htm
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-13-2004, 05:53 PM
John Kort's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 538
Interesting discussion!

Ideal did not use a mold numbering system until 1897 in their No 9 Handbook. Molds with the suffix from 1 to 143
were listed in this catalog.

Many of the molds listed in that catalog had been available for many years prior to the adoption of the numbering system.

The 3118 is described as the regular standard bullet for the .32-20-115 Winchester as it still is in 2004.

The 3089 bullet is described as the .30-30 Winchester Short Range bullet. It had a hollow base. Other .30-30 Short Range Bullets illustrated are the 30822, 30823 and 30824.

As Jack said, the 3089 number has been recycled. It was last listed in Ideal Catalog No. 15 dated 1903, so it has been obsolete for many, many years.

Jack, Ideal Catalog 44 was probably published in the early to mid 1940's. I have No 45 and it was published in 1946,

History is interesting!
John
__________________
aka w30wcf
aka w44wcf (black powder)
aka Jack Christian SASS #11993" I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-13-2004, 06:45 PM
Jack Monteith's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 7,788
History sure is interesting, John. John Barlow started Ideal in 1884, although he may have designed some moulds earlier. Hmmm, #45 was published in 1945 and #46 was published in 1982. That was a long stretch. Somebody has to write a book on Ideal moulds. Lyman could do it if Walters or Vidas doesn't.

Thanks
Jack
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-13-2004, 07:06 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Monteith
History sure is interesting, John. John Barlow started Ideal in 1884, although he may have designed some moulds earlier. Hmmm, #45 was published in 1945 and #46 was published in 1982. That was a long stretch. Somebody has to write a book on Ideal moulds. Lyman could do it if Walters or Vidas doesn't.

Thanks
Jack
Wondering about that...unless you are talking about catalogue numbers...Loading manual #38 has a 1951 copyright.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-14-2004, 02:05 PM
John Kort's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 538
Jack, Ribbonstone,

My apologies. I was trying to watch the debate and think and type at the same time. At least that's my excuse!

Correction. Lyman Handbook 44 was published in 1967.
Ideal No. 34 was published in 1945. Sorry for the mixup.

Lyman published 3 different Cast Bullet Handbooks. As we know, the 3rd edition was published in 1980. It's hard to believe that was 24years ago! The 1st edition came out in 1958 followed by the 2nd edition in 1974.

Here's a lttle more Ideal / Lyman history.
Ideal Handbook No 17 (1906) - The first gas check cup appeared along with the 308284, the first gas checked bullet design. Also in the catalog were 3 other gas checked bullets: the 308291 for the .30-30, the 319295 for the 32-40 and the 375296 for the .38-55.

Ideal Handbook No 20 (1910) -1st handbook under the Marlin Firearms Co. who purchased Ideal from Barlow.

Ideal Handbook No 27 (1926) - 1st Lyman issue

Ideal Handbook No 28 (1927) - Improved Ideal Single Mold with interchangeable blocks. Previous to this time the blocks and handles were in 1 unit.

Ideal Handbook No 38 (1951) - New Loverin bullets by Guy Loverin.

Sincerely,
John
__________________
aka w30wcf
aka w44wcf (black powder)
aka Jack Christian SASS #11993" I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Homemade Gas Checks ? jh45gun Handloading Procedures/Practices 19 06-05-2013 07:24 PM
Cast my first bullet ! ENGLANDER Bullet Casting 25 06-21-2008 03:29 PM
Alloys..Soft? Hard? Any Advantage arkypete Handloading Procedures/Practices 3 03-02-2006 07:12 PM
RCBS 40 caliber bullet molds arkypete Bullet Casting 10 03-01-2004 12:35 PM
LBT Bullet Specialty Molds radform Handgun Cartridges 5 02-18-2002 05:10 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:28 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2