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  #1  
Old 11-19-2007, 12:34 PM
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casting for 7.62x54R?


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I have a mosin nagant bolt action m38 in ecellent condition. I am debating on whether to load for it with cast or jacketed ammo. Jacketed ammo I can load hotter, the round is similar to 30-06. But then I like casting my own and not being dependant on the mail for bullets. I also hate copper fouling, would rather deal with a little lead anyday.

How fast can straight WW be pushed with a gas check? This rifle is dead accurate with 146 grain milsurpluss ammo. I've got a box of 200 grain ammo to try out and see how it likes the heavyier rounds. Max range around here would be under 200 yards, with the vast majority of shots in the 100 yard range.

Primary use will be coyotee and deer.

Is casting for this viable or should I stick with copper jacketed?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2007, 01:19 PM
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Your WW question will depend on bore condition. If the bore is lapped or fire-lapped smooth, you should do well with cast bullets. If you harden wheelweight alloy bullets and use the right sizing and a gas check, you ought to be able to get up to .30-30 velocities. 2200-2300 fps, maybe. Others have gone faster. Assuming that velocity limit, though, cast the heaviest bullet the barrel will stabilize well that has a flat point for good terminal performance on game.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2007, 02:28 PM
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Most surplus M38s have really horrible bores, and the groove diameter could vary quite a bit.

Love cast bullets in rifles myself, but it may be an uphill battle for maximum performance..... just temper your expectations.

Most people fooling with cast bullets in old milsurps keep them pretty mild, save for the occasional perfect bore... and the Russians were never really known for being meticulous for cleaning in the field.

Best of luck.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2007, 02:49 PM
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Have to agree. You'll need to slug it anyway, as bore diameters are almost certain to be something other than our standard of .308" Most Russian 7.62s run in the .310 to .311" range, but they can be all over the charts.

Slugging will reveal both the diameter and give you an idea of how smooth the bore is, also. If the slug slides through smoothly, you may be in fat city. But if it drags, stops/starts or otherwise has to be hammered through, you might as well quit right there.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:59 PM
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Been shooting cast WW for past year in my MN. Use either 14 or 21 grains of Red Dot depending on whether using the 180's or 150's dropped by an RCBS mould in .314 dia. MN is pristine barrel/receiver from Poland with ATI stock and scope mount but M. Kubes bolt body modification. Shoots very well and accurate for lead bullets. Slugging bore is important place to start. Bullet design is GC and I use them. Never shot over the chrony so don't have clue as to velocity. Most Russian MN bores looked like sewar pipe with pitting and such thus the Polish choice ($15 price didn't hurt either).
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:28 AM
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I shoot cast bullets in the majority of my Mosins. Depending on the rifle, I'm happy to stay around the 1700-1900 FPS level.
Any of the Lee "fat thirty" molds will work fine, unless you have a Finn that is .308.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:24 PM
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I've got a Finish M91, but the bore on it is like a gravel road.

The M38 I've got has got a pristen barrel, not perfect, but good deep rifling and some very minior disoloration and faint pitting. Better in fact than a lot of the cap and ball revolvers or some of my cartrige lead throwers.

The bore slugs rite at .312 grove dia. If I could push a 180-200 grain bullet to 1900 FPS I would be happy. I'll look through Lee's site and see what they've got.

Most shooting will be at 100 yards, out to 200, but the vast majority will be 100 or less.

Thanks
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2008, 02:24 PM
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casting for 7.62x54R

Hey, just the topic I've been looking for.. I'd like to find some cast rifle bullets or a mold for a couple of my M/N 91/30's in .314. LEE has some molds in .312 and I wonder if they might come out of the mold at around .314 before sizing ?..The bores in the M/N's slug out at .313 and are nice so that isn't a problem. I've shot .311 HPBT 180 gr. and Horn. .312 150 gr. with poor results witch I expected. Can anyone help me out on this ?.
I have a M-39 Finn "sneak" that is Very accurate with .311 174 gr HPBT but it would be interesting to see how well I could get these 91/30's to shoot. Many thanks...
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2008, 06:21 PM
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My Lee .309 150 gr and .309 115 gr molds drop bullets at .311. That should take care of a lot of MN guns. Just tumble lube them as is and bang away. I have been meaning to get a set of 7.62x54R dies and give it a shot. The bore in my MN is pretty good.
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  #10  
Old 09-06-2008, 07:29 PM
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Casting for 7.62x54R

Hello Jodum,, that sounds like good news !!. If the .309 come out at .311 two thousands over, I think I'll get one of Lee's .312 and see what happens. Hopefully will be .314
Thanks for the reply !!.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2008, 08:20 AM
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If you will check the LEE site they actually offer 3 molds for 7.62 rifles. All have a listed diameter of .312, which should drop a bit larger. They offer a 155g, a 160g and a 185g for the .303 ( which still lists at .312).
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2008, 08:36 AM
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casting for 7.6254R

Hello JD. Yep, that's what I did. I ordered the 160 and 185 gr. moulds.
I have to get a thermometer and flux yet and I'll have the needed toys.
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  #13  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:33 PM
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cool I get to respond to a cool thread I've been playing around with a m-44 and resently accuired some privipartsian brass, and enjoyed the load I worked on using 311299they drop out of my mould at .3145, my rifle bore is .312 and have been using a .312 diam sizer, i konw .314 would be better, but as of right now thats all I got untill next week saturday going to ord.314 diam sizer, but amy way have been playing with unique and getting decent accuracy at 50 yards( all I have for a range), and having fun best I can get is 2" and have to use a 400 meters setting with iron sites, also been using straight wheel weaghts and they are not heattreated or dropped into waster just casted and set up for 3 weeks,gaschecked and lubed, can't waight for the .314 sizer to come in,kjg
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2008, 12:02 PM
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I've had a 91/30 that I bought on Gunbroker last Summer. I've shot 400 rounds all the same. 11.5 Unique and a RCBS 180 cast boolet sized to .311. All shots have been on steel targets out to two hundred yards. The bore is in good shape and slugs.310. The gun shoots great all I've done is some trigger work and changed the front sight.
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will52100 View Post
I have a mosin nagant bolt action m38 in ecellent condition. I am debating on whether to load for it with cast or jacketed ammo. Jacketed ammo I can load hotter, the round is similar to 30-06. But then I like casting my own and not being dependant on the mail for bullets. I also hate copper fouling, would rather deal with a little lead anyday.

How fast can straight WW be pushed with a gas check? This rifle is dead accurate with 146 grain milsurpluss ammo. I've got a box of 200 grain ammo to try out and see how it likes the heavyier rounds. Max range around here would be under 200 yards, with the vast majority of shots in the 100 yard range.

Primary use will be coyotee and deer.

Is casting for this viable or should I stick with copper jacketed?

Thanks
In my opinion, military surplus rifles BEG to be loaded with cast. Regardless of the barrels groove diameter, a cast bullet can be tailored to the barrel. I find the current factory loads way too expensive, and the military surplus ammo a crap shoot when it comes to accuracy. I'm with you; I hate the thought of depending on anyone for bullets.
I load straight wheelweights (WW) in all my milsurps. A properly sized bullet in a reasonably smooth bore will not lead. Examples:
I have an FR-8 I've converted to a Scout rifle. Of the 20 or so centerfire rifles I own, it's my "go to" deer rifle. This year alone I've killed two deer, a doe and a buck, with cast bullets. I use a Lyman 311291 in hollowpoint form (172 gr.) and cast the bullets from air-cooled WW's. I run them at 1853 fps with no leading at all. With this load, my daughter killed 4 consecutive deer with 4 consecutive shots. Personally, I limit my shots to around 100 yds. when deer hunting.
I also have an 03A3 Springfield in which I've been shooting a Lyman 31141 which weights about 180 grs. when cast from air-cooled wheelweights. My best load so far runs this bullet a shade over 2000 fps. I've fired 10 shots strings with not a trace of leading.
In my opinion the Lyman mould number 314299 is THE mould for Mosins and Enfields. My mould, a recent production one, drops the bullets at .314" I also have a Lee 312185, but it drops bullets at only .312", so it's uses are a bit more limited.
You ask about max velocity..I honestly don't know, but if you water-quench your bullets as you drop them from the mould, they harden very well and I'm sure 2200+ fps wouldn't be a stretch. But why? Especially when you're target shooting, all you're trying to do is poke a hole in a piece of paper.
Here are a few examples of what my Mosins have done with cast bullets. All groups were fired at 100 yds. except the one noted which was 50.





Cast bullets can be used very effectively for target shooting easily to 200 yds. and with the right loads, out to 600 yds. Here's an excellent article on cast bullets in MilSurp rifles:Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles It's the best article on the subject that I've ever read.

Good luck!
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