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  #1  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:30 PM
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Reloading 30-30 cast


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I was thinking about making the jump from handgun cast bullets to 30-30 rifle cast bullets. I will be using a Marlyn 336 lever action rifle for these bulltes. Does anyone have any mold / bullet design suggestions? Also, any thoughts on lube / sizing equipment and load data? Any info is appreciated.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:20 PM
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Iowaloha dtu2179,

I'm working on that myself in a Winchester 94. I got some good tips by asking on this board.

May I suggest that you use the "search" feature that is offered? Lots of good informaition to be found that way. Your likely to find some of my questions in there.

Cheezywan
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:20 PM
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Roger that, thanks.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:42 PM
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you might check out Lee's new manual. It's got a reloading section for doing just what your talking about and some great info on reloading cast for the 30-30. I've been using Lee molds and the liquid alox system for a lot of years now with great success. Their push thru sizing system is also dandy. Here is the link. I buy their stuff from Midway it's always a little less expensive than directly from Lee. Midway has the Lee Manual for about 15 bucks. I recommend reading chapter 10.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata.../bullmol2.html

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata.../lubesize.html

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...#LeeLiquidAlox

Here's Midway's address.

MidwayUSA — Shooting Supplies, Reloading, Gunsmithing, Ammunition, Gun Parts & Rifle Scopes
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2008, 04:54 PM
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Thanks Faucettb. Will the round nose bullets work in my lever gun or should I go with a flat nose? Any recommendations there? Also, My gun is a newer model Marlyn 336, do you think I should go with the .309 size die or the one in .308? I am a fan of the Lee equipment and Liquid Alox as well. I cast .38 and .45 with all Lee equipment and tumble lube, all with fine results.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:05 PM
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Can anyone reccommend if I should get the .309 size die or the one in .308? And if I should go with the 150 gr FP or the 170 gr FP? I am going to try to order everything this weekend.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:13 PM
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At least 0.309" if not 0.310". The Marlin throats tend to run on the large side.

0.308" will almost certainly be too small.
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:01 AM
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At least a .309. I have an old LEE single cavity C309-160R that I've had for maybe 15 years. You may want to check out Ranchdog's mold for the 30/30. It looks pretty good to me, and I just ordered a 2 cavity mold from him. You'll also want to get a neck expanding die, mine is an RCBS, some people like Lyman's M die.
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Last edited by Tom W.; 09-20-2008 at 09:25 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-13-2008, 02:17 AM
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I currently consider the Winnie"94,in 30/30 caliber,with cast bullets,as my pprimary hunting rifle.
The flat nose,large meplat bullet,in my opinion,kills better,and is safer in the tubular magazine.I'm not sure that pointy bullets present a danger,but I am sure that flat bullets do not.
.309 or .310 sizers are for grooved bullets;.308 is for paper patched bullets.
Frank
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2008, 06:24 AM
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For the Marlin 30-30 I would go with the Ranch Dog TLC311-165-TF http://ranchdogmolds.com/
Lyman 311041 http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/index.htm, RCBS .30-180-FN http://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Main...&route=C12J059 and the SAECO #360 http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/saecoprods.html My Marlin 336CS likes all of these.

Last edited by jimkim; 09-13-2008 at 06:27 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-14-2008, 07:49 AM
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How about the alloy. Linotype, water quenched WW, #2; any thoughts. I have a large quantity of WW so I was hoping top use them to some degree in these bullets.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2008, 08:53 AM
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The major difficulty you might face is if the gun has the Micro-Groove barrel. I don't own one, so the following is subject to correction by those who do. But from what I read, you'll want to run at least two thousandths over bore diameter, and use a gas-check bullet to have any accuracy at all.

Different gun altogether, but in my Savage 340, I run the Lee #308-170-F bullet with a gas check, Liquid Alox lubed, then run through the Lee .309" sizer to seat the check, and re-lubed with Liquid Alox. I use bullet scrap and wheel weights, mixed to no special formula. They're probably about medium-hard.

My two best full-speed loads (neither are max) are 28.0 W748 for 1900 fps, and 22.0 of A5744 for 1950 fps. Both shoot inside 2" at 100 yards.

You can shoot the same bullet with or without the gas check as a small game/plinker load with 7.0 of 700X (easy to remember!) for about 1200 fps and isty-bitsy groups.
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Raab View Post
You can shoot the same bullet with or without the gas check as a small game/plinker load with 7.0 of 700X (easy to remember!) for about 1200 fps and isty-bitsy groups.
I've had intentions to thank you for that tip Rocky ( you gave me similar advice in another thread). I do so now.

I've been using that charge weight of WW-231 in my 94 Winchester w/out a gas check with good result. 1211 fps. It gives the rifle a bit more utility here in Iowa. My son likes to shoot it and will certainly roll a "daytime" skunk or raccoon. I'm not allowed to harvest deer with a rifle here.

A sidenote: I recovered a bullet fired fired from 25 yards at a row of water-filled milk jugs. The bullet was found in jug #7 with no visual upset. These were as-cast diameter from air cooled wheelweight metal.
Two notches up on the rear sight elevator was all that was required to hit point of aim relitive to my full power(near factory load) jacketed bullet loads.

Pay attention to what this man has to say dtu2179.

Cheezywan
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2008, 02:11 PM
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Ranch Dog's bullet design is both tumble lube and gas checked. It should be a dandy choice. You won't have to size it except for the gas check itself. Definitely do not take a tumble lube design under .310. The small grooves are intended to be self-sizing in the bore and they already are gauged for crushing. I would, in your shoes, use a .310 sizing die in a conventional lubricator and sizer with these bullets, pushing the bullet base down in only far enough to seat and size the gas check. If you have only a straight-through sizing die, like the Lee, then you may find you want the bullets a little harder since you are going to be slightly pre-crushing the tumble lube grooves. The arsenic in wheel weights will let you harden them by quenching them in water. You can try just dropping them into water straight from the mold. That takes very regular timing, though, to provide uniform results. Frankly, I find an oven soak and quench more effective.

The Micro-groove barrel is both praised and cursed by cast bullet shooters. I expect a lot of it boils down to what velocities they are trying to achieve? One trick I used experimentally long ago was to set a little loop of 63-37 fine (.055") flux core soldering wire in the bottom of the gas checks, then heat treated the bullets in an oven sitting in the gas checks. That solder alloy is a eutectic for lead and tin and has the lowest melting point the combination can provide, so it melted well below the bullet alloy melting point. This soldered the gas checks to the bullets. Back then, Lyman gas checks were still straight and not the crimp-on type. My purpose was to keep them on the bullet in flight, and not separating and veering off into the chronograph sky screens. It had occurred to me, though, that the same technique might allow the gas check to apply some rotational torque to the bullet if the rifling was shallow, as with the Microgrooves. That's why I mention the idea here. AFAIK, all the 336's in .30-30 have Microgroove barrels. Not sure about the .308MX?
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Last edited by unclenick; 09-14-2008 at 02:15 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Get those Micro-groove barrels CLEAN. I mean all the copper, or this probably won't work well. The foaming bore cleaners seem to do a good job.

If it won't shoot after that, then you are probably sizing too small, or the mold is dropping too small.

Keep us updated, and best of luck.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2008, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for all the input guys.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2008, 12:46 PM
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Does anyone know if Lee makes a .310 sizing die, I didn't see one on their site.
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2008, 02:57 PM
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If it's not listed, it would be concidered a "non-production" item. Lots of good news though. They would make one for you for a price. Or you could open one up a little your self.

Might even be able to make the mold throw them .310 as cast?

Cheezywan
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2008, 10:19 AM
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If you use the tumble lube bullets, they are already going to have that much extra diameter. Lee will make custom orders, too, but that will cost you more than a standard mold. You can also use the old mold cavity smoothing trick of casting a bullet and drilling the base and attaching a rod to it for a handle. You put it in the mold with a mild abrasive like Remington 40X bore cleaner, and spin it back and forth between your palms. You can widen it gradually that way. It also improves the roundness of the cavities in cherry cut molds. Lee molds are lathe bored, though, so they are already fairly perfectly round.
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  #20  
Old 09-17-2008, 12:40 PM
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Do you think I should try the .311 size die?
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