» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Handloading > Bullet Casting
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-14-2009, 02:19 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
"Frosty" bullets +/- ?


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


I’m wondering if anyone can report any effect (positive or negative) of bullet performance when they are cast in a hot mold with a “frosty” appearance.
Not talking so hot as to warp a mold here. Just over the line from “shiny to frosty”?
Thanks for looking.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-14-2009, 02:26 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Have some molds that just won't cast right until the bullet have that smooth frost. Really doesn't hurt anything so long as the sharp edges of the mold are still filling out. If you really miss shinny, can buff them with a rag.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-15-2009, 04:26 AM
Ranch Dog's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cuero, TX
Posts: 3,484
Supposedly that is the best state of alloy if you are using Alox. Like Ribbonstone, a lot of my bullet casting especially the really big bullets, cast best frosted.
__________________
Michael
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
OK good so far. I got critiqued by a couple of my shooting pards for the frosty appearance of my cast bullets. So I searched around looking for a direct answer to my question. Found nothing real definitive.
I cast all of mine frosty as kind of a quality-control step. I don’t own or use a thermometer.
They shoot fine and I like the way they look. Thanks for the support. Case closed.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
Case re-opened

There has to be a bit more to this. All I can find on the web is that frosty bullets “generally” cause no harm to a bullet caster.

Thinking on it some I see a couple of things.

A bullet cast from a mold that is at a temperature that produces a “shiny” well filled-out bullet seems like it would “cool” from the outside to inside at some rate?

A bullet cast from a mold that produces a “frosty” well filled-out bullet seems like it would “cool” more near at the same time from outside to inside?

Is my head on right about that?

Makes me think about all that I have read here about the effects of “water quenching” and “heat treating” bullets.

Seems to be about time?

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Basically it's the structure of the bullet as it cools....hot lead, fast cool, will give a larger grain structure that is seen as "frost".
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2009, 04:47 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbonstone View Post
Basically it's the structure of the bullet as it cools....hot lead, fast cool, will give a larger grain structure that is seen as "frost".
That seems backwords in my head ribbonstone.

Hot lead in a hot mold would be a slow cool. Perhaps I misunderstand your intent? Perhaps I just don't know lead (very likely).

Thanks,

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:14 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jefferson Parish (via N.O.)
Posts: 9,035
Don't usually post links to other forums, but perhaps they worded their responce better than i.
https://www.castbulletassoc.org/foru...996&forum_id=9
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:38 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Lite frost wont hurt you a bit. The more antimony in your lead the easier your lead will frost when out of your temp range. The one thing you need is therometer when you start casting and after you do it long enough the old meter is not needed. 700-750 degrees is were you want your temp as general.
When you pre-heat your molds Don't over heat them you want to heat them to a temp that is lower than your pot temp. Now you will have a few culls and when you drop them, if you drop them on damp cloth they will frost. I use dry old blue jean material over a soft towel. ribbonstone is right some moulds will not drop consistant till on the hot side, some are to the cooler side. Only so much can be told but time and failure and experiance will school you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-19-2009, 03:47 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
That was a good read Ribbonstone. Them folks are all over this stuff. One poster even used "frosting" like I do. So as to make them all the same.

Boomer,
What about heavy frosting of cast bullets. Does it change performance in any way that you know of?

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-20-2009, 06:03 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Cheezywan never used them, just always culled them. That's the beauty of casting the ugly ones can become beautiful in there next life.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by boommer View Post
Cheezywan never used them, just always culled them. That's the beauty of casting the ugly ones can become beautiful in there next life.
We sure agree there boomer. I even get a fair percentage of my practice bullets back from my short range berm so that they can be beautiful again as well.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18
I have found that cast bullets with a frosty surface seem to retain a lot more liquid allox lube. I'm not sure if it is because the surface of the bullet is rougher, but the coating of allox seems thicker like a proper coat of varnish. So seems like a + for the frosty bullet!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:02 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloader357 View Post
I have found that cast bullets with a frosty surface seem to retain a lot more liquid allox lube. I'm not sure if it is because the surface of the bullet is rougher, but the coating of allox seems thicker like a proper coat of varnish. So seems like a + for the frosty bullet!

I observe that as well. I find no harm with it either! My IP was about the metal of the bullet and the effect it has when it impacts an intended target? Questions like "break up" and hardness were on my mind (as compared to a bullet that is smooth, shiney, and well filled-out).

I have found no evidence to date that frosty bullets cause harm in that regard. Looking for anyone that has information in that regard.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-20-2010, 05:37 PM
Ole1830's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 767
Frosty is ok. Just keep a close eye on your product to make sure you're not casting so hot that they are cracking (if you're water quenching)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-21-2010, 04:34 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole1830 View Post
Frosty is ok. Just keep a close eye on your product to make sure you're not casting so hot that they are cracking (if you're water quenching)

Mine are air cooled so far Ole1830. Interested about cracking when water quenching though. What can you tell me about that?

Thanks for reply.

Cheezywan
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-22-2010, 04:57 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 263
Frosted bullets will drop from the mould smaller in diameter than normal shiny bullets. How much? Measured in the .0001" s See Shrinkage & Solidification shrinkage here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_%28metalworking%29 Never hear about or seen cracking when water dropping when i tried it one time. I will stay with air cooled. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_b..._strengthening
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-23-2010, 05:17 PM
Ole1830's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezywan View Post
Mine are air cooled so far Ole1830. Interested about cracking when water quenching though. What can you tell me about that?

Thanks for reply.

Cheezywan
I've had batches show cracks around the crimp grooves (across the bullet) if you're I was casting too hot. (at least I think that's what was causing it)

I would have/should have shown a picture, but i've only had this happen a few times and I just tossed the bullets back in the pot for another go.

I'm also a fairly newb caster (started about a year ago), so maybe one of the casting vets has a better bead on what causes this.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-24-2010, 04:14 PM
gschwertley's Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Washington state
Posts: 63
I don't mind the frosted appearance much. It doesn't seem to effect bullet performance. The frosted look helps me regulate the temperature of the melt, ie., when they get too frosty, time to reduce the temp, cool the mold, etc. As some others have said, some bullets just don't fill out right unless they are on the hotter side. Aluminum molds heat up faster than steel ones do; some people have two molds of the same type to rotate back and forth as they are casting to regulate the temperature. I have a few steel molds, but several more aluminum and no dupes. With the aluminum, I keep a moist, folded terrycloth rag next to me on a saucer and when I really get going, every so often I will hold the hot aluminum mold against the moist cloth momentarily to bring the temp. down. I don't know if this is mentioned in any of the casting books, but it hasn't seemed to hurt any of the aluminum molds that I've used.

Seems to me that the composition of the alloy used will determine how soon (i.e., at what temperature range) the metal will start to take on the frosted look. If you cast a bullet out of Monotype (only 70-something percent lead; just for laughs, very hard and brittle), this melts at a higher temperature yet they are are difficult to get them to come out frosted.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-24-2010, 07:54 PM
Tom W.'s Avatar
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eufaula, Alabama
Posts: 293
I've had some very frosted bullets that I shot from my .45 Colt that were rather brittle. I didn't see the same reaction as I did with the less frosted or "shiny" bullets. I was shooting at some Stainless steel discs in a dirt pit. I noticed that with the very frosted bullets, the tree on the bank above the target would lose leaves and little twigs, and when I shot with my pretty bullets, the tree showed little or no reaction. Hardly scientific, I know, but that's what I saw. I let my son shoot some so I could watch the reaction and I was surprised. We didn't get any reaction from his Jacketed bullets from his .480.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reliable-feed bullets for Marlin 1894C PackDude Marlin 1894 Lever Guns 24 03-31-2014 08:07 AM
Pointed bullets in 357 max ??? Huntdaddy1 Handloading Procedures/Practices 13 11-22-2009 09:24 AM
moly coated bullets fastfreddy Handloading Procedures/Practices 11 05-13-2008 02:07 PM
Shrinking Bullets TLJaxun Bullet Casting 1 04-15-2008 01:17 PM
Cast Bullets 2 lube or not to lube? Smitty357 Handloading Procedures/Practices 6 03-01-2008 02:06 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:43 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2