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  #1  
Old 10-25-2010, 03:18 PM
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Unidentified cartridge


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I recently picked up some cartridges contained a stripper clip. They appear to be 30-06 and have a white plastic bullet. Someone suggested that they were "guard duty" rounds. Any ideas?

Thanks for the info. I should add that the white bullets are soft and deflect when pinched. The cases look nickel plated.

Last edited by collector; 10-26-2010 at 08:22 AM. Reason: more info
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2010, 04:28 PM
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Only white tip I can remember was for frangible ammo. Bullet core was usually a mix of lead dust and Bakelite (that funky plastic that old phones were made of). Made millions and millions of the rounds as they were used in training both pilots and ground crews in anti aircraft fire.

Odd as it sounds, they even had piloted plains (with extra armor) that were flown against live fire using this round (and you thought your job sucked!).
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:43 PM
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Yup - think some old P-40's were used toward the end of WWII for that purpose.
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:55 PM
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thinking about it...should make mighty fine guard ammo as well for the same reasons.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:19 AM
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Thanks for the info. I should add that the white bullets are fairly soft, and deflect when pinched. The cases look nickel plated.
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2010, 04:04 AM
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Collector, could you please post what, if anything, is stamped on the bottom of the case(the headstamp)?
Also, put a magnet to the case and see if it reacts.(steel?)
Pictures would also be invaluable.
If you are in any doubt as to caliber, measure the bullet diameter, the case length and width.
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:16 AM
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Bottom of case:Starting at 1200, clockwise: F A 08 2.

Case is non-magnetic. Unable to measure the cal. (my Mic is dead) looks like 30 cal by comparison.

Thanks, Fred
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  #8  
Old 10-29-2010, 10:56 AM
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F A may be Frankfurt Arsenal.

The numbers are likely a date code, or lot number, or such.
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  #9  
Old 10-29-2010, 04:49 PM
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going to change my answer.

Probably is white plastic. May be some short range loads that do use a plastic bullet. Europe is pretty populated, and safe long range rifle ranges hard to come by. So reduced range loads were made, using plastic bullets, to decrease down range liability (also for indoor ranges, as theyd only need a pistol rated back stop to be safe with these). Start off at a rip-roaring speed, but with such a horrible BC, they slow down like ping-pong balls. Would be deadly at short range, irritating at long range.

Have also read that they were used as guard rounds in special areas that couldn't afford to have 30cal holes punched into equipment.

Haven't seen 30-06. Have seen .308/9mm/45/.223.
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2010, 07:10 PM
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sounds like training ammo similar to this save the plastic case body.
http://www.dansammo.com/images/inv/as30815.jpg
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  #11  
Old 10-29-2010, 07:34 PM
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I have Chris Punnet's 30-06 in front of me but the Frankford Arsenal section is 54 pages and it'll take me awhile to read thru it because your description isn't jumping out of the pages.

You indeed have a Frankford Arsenal cartridge, case being made in February of 1908 and its a 30-06. White indicates either Frangible, Locking Shot or Tracer but none seem to use a plastic or rubber bullet. Frangibles were not made that early, the program started in October of 1942, basically. Punnet states, in one brief sentence, that during a 1930's experimental program "a hard rubber bullet matching the profile of the M1906 Ball bullet." was used but there is no mention that this went into production.

Now, as to the case. The earliest known aluminum case from FA is 1908 but they were experimental and not production runs. Other attempts were made after WWI. There's no mention of nickle plating that early and you have ruled out steel so I think its probably an experimental aluminum and it may be rare!

It's time for some pictures collector. I've done all I can with what I have and my conclusion, to this point, is you either have something uncommon or it's a reload.
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Last edited by O'Connersun; 10-30-2010 at 04:20 AM. Reason: correct errors & additional info
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:37 PM
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I was thinking the "o8" might be for 2008 rather than 1908.
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2010, 02:21 PM
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This is a partial copy of the photo collector sent me. Photobucket was being weird.


These are M1906 paper-bullet blanks with tinned brass cases. A fast-burning powder called 'EC', commonly used in blanks, was used as the propellant and a small amount in the bullet, which was shellaced, to aid in its break-up.

It's hard to say when these were loaded because fired and second cases were commonly used so the headstamp can't be relied on to date the loading.

Nice little piece to have, especially if you have a Springfield or Enfield to go with them.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:46 PM
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Think this should be moved to the Cartridge Collection forum, due to the oddity.
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2010, 02:10 AM
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Hello
I suggest that you send a picture,or good identification,to the:
International ]Ammunition Association.webbsite
Someone there will certainly know what it is.
Frank
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2010, 04:40 AM
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Kragman, I am a member of the IAA and while I did not post the picture there I did email them to some friends for verification. I also used what most IAA members feel is the 'bible' for the .30-06 cartridge in my identification. These are M1906 Paper-bullet blanks, as I described above.

I wonder, what does it take for you to believe things posted on websites?

This is from an email I sent to Ray Meketa, a member here as well as an IAA forum member and a recognized authority on US military cartridges within the IAA;
"Ray, do you agree that these are the M1906 paper blanks, tinned case?
Chief"

Ray's reply;

"Chief

Yes, that's what they are. Frankford Arsenal made the same type of blank for the 30-40 and the 30-03.

Ray"
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  #18  
Old 11-04-2010, 09:10 AM
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O'Connorson - Back off a bit.

Frank wasn't aware you're a member of the organization and that you had already double checked with another member of that group.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to identify these cartridges for the requesting member.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:16 PM
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blanks

I have some of these paper blanks myself, they were used to fire the "VB" grenade launcher system as seen in Brophy"s book on page 402. While researching them to identify what they were I found that in combat they used wooden bullets but on the practice range they used the paper bullets to cut done on the strays wondering off range and doing damage elsewhere. I don't remember just where I found that tidbit about the paper but it was an easy web search. It was a dealer of antique ammo I believe.
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