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  #1  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:25 PM
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Cowboy Fast Draw pistols?


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Do the Uberti Cattleman models stand up well, to Cowboy Fast Draw (Thumbing technique)? I've been told that many of the Colt replicas don't stand up well to Fast Draw ram fanning techniques but what about CFD with the traditional thumbing technique? I like the "leaf spring" design found in the Colt replicas (eg. Uberti, Beretta, etc.) and was wondering if a Uberti Cattleman would be adequate for Cowboy Fast Draw?
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2008, 06:54 AM
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The only one that was advertising as being built for that kind of use was the new Taurus Goucho, but I don't know if it's still in production. Heard that it has been dropped from the line.

I have heard that fanning is really hard on the leaf spring actions, but that's just second had data. Why don't you contact Bowen and talk to him about your needs. I would suspect that your going to need some custom work for any handgun to hold up to the kind of stress Cowboy shooting puts on a gun.

http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/
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  #3  
Old 10-04-2008, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by faucettb View Post
. . . I have heard that fanning is really hard on the leaf spring actions, but that's just second had data. . .
Ditto that Bob. That's why CFD folks use Rugers, Colts, American Western Arms sixguns. They have internals strong enough to withstand the stress even with thumbcocking. Unlike normal thumbcocking, all of the internals are asked to move a heavy cylinder full of blanks like right NOW. Even with the stronger guns, parts eventually break. For more on CFD, see The Gunfighter Zone. They have a section reserved for this. Posts can also be made to Jim Martin, an exceptional SA gunsmith and quickdraw champion.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:55 AM
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You can modify a Colt or a Colt replica to handle high speed shooting, but if you don't you will usually break every spring in the gun within 150 rounds.

Not to mention burring up your cylinder locking notches.


Elmer Keith has a section in his book "Sixguns" telling how a gunsmith can modify a single action revovler to withstand fanning.

As the guy above said, the only standard Colt clone that has had any of this stuff done to it is the Gaucho as the folks at Taurus wisely realized that a lot of people who don't know a LOT about SA revolvers and who have seen too many hollywood movies would be breaking the guns and causing backlogs in the repair department, so they went ahead and modified them that way up front.

Fanning is bad on Rugers for different reasons.

Bob Munden also does custom action work. I have heard of one gun he modified for fanning that had over 60,000 full power .45 long colt rounds through it without a parts breakage.

Col. Charles Askins Sr. once noted the real reason the old SAA was so popular in the old days was not because it was sturdy (it wasn't) but because it would fire with half the part s broken and could be easily repaired.
I have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever, but I think even I can tear down and rebuild a traditional SAA.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2008, 01:38 PM
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I may not have been clear when I originally posted but my interests lie in Cowboy Fast Draw and not World Fast Draw. They are completely different animals and their rules governing modifications to the revolvers are also different, are they not?

I recognize the stress that is imparted on the internals and some external parts of the revolver when moving that heavy cylinder at a high rate of speed but I am capable of detail stripping my Cattleman and changing the parts that need changing. I'm not capable of altering parts or making other modifications better reserved for a competent gunsmith.

I recently broke the sear/bolt spring on my Cattleman and replaced the part but found that Wolff Gunsprings offers a spring kit that replaces the sear/bolt spring, the main spring and the base pin cross spring. The first two are lighter springs. I'm not understanding why and how a lighter spring would be a benefit (for dealing with added stress caused by thumbing the hammer during CFD). Anyone care to enlighten me? Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:10 PM
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I find it hard to believe anything could be better than a Ruger New Vaquero in .45LC with the short barrel, fitted with Wolff Springs, for any type of stressful fast gun work. Don't get me wrong; I love Colts and Clones but a Ruger is just plain tougher. One could add an aluminum grip frame and ejector housing to further lighten it.
I have two Cimarron Model Ps in 44, but I have the longer barrels, and am not into fast draw since my cousin's husband shot himself in the leg with a Super Blackhawk with full blown 240gr load ! I fitted the Wolff springs for easier cocking/smoother operation and reliability. Never have used one of their increased power base pin retainer springs; I fixed the fit instead, and no more walking base pins. I do not think the lighter springs would do anything to alleviate any of the stresses imposed by fast cocking, to the contrary in fact. But, the wire trigger/bolt spring is a big improvement, and I haven't broken a Wolff mainspring yet, something I can't say for Colt.
Some of the Ubertis have a multi-part hammer with that wierd safety incorporated, and that doesn't look to me like it would be all that great for gunslinging either. Uberti or Cimarron probably have the regular plain hammers too, and they are a drop in fit. Good luck.
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2008, 05:47 PM
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I appreciate the upgrades and thought put into the Ruger New Vaquero however part of what draws me to the SAA is the original design of the 1873 SAA's "4 clicks" when cocking it (as I previously stated), the leaf spring design of the mainspring and the sear/bolt spring. I was just wondering what, if any, modifications relating to the internals, can a user make to fall within the rules of Cowboy Fast Draw, that others have done and found useful? I can see myself eventually purchasing a Ruger New Vaquero somewhere down the road but for now, I'll focus my attention on my Colt clones.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:49 AM
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For cowboy fast draw the Ruger also has to be modified, otherwise you burr up the cylinder locking notches and have an overratation problem.

Bob Munden does work on all sorts of single actions to make them able to withstand high speed shooting.

Some guns Munden has modified have gone for over 50,000 rounds of ammo without a parts breakage, by the way.

Fanning looks cool in movies and sounds awesome in pulp novels, but in reality it just messes up a good gun, unless you specifically modify the gun for it.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:30 AM
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I hate to be argumentative, but I have yet to see anyone get a Ruger New Model without any broken parts to overrotate. The reason they leave rotation marks on the cylinder is due to their basic design difference, and that precludes overrotation, and the cylinder locking notches are going to be fine. The Old Model design is basically Colt, so there it can be a real problem. If someone is conscientious about how they cock a Colt type action, they should be able to avoid the issue, but because a lot of people apparently cannot do that, you have a lot of action specialists. I personally believe the overrotation issue is a lot more common with SASS two handed style shooters than with gunslinger (one handed) or cowboy fast draw.
Virgil, I forget who makes them, but upon reflection I know someone makes aftermarket forged, solid, cylinder bolts for greater strength in the Colt design, but I know they recommend gunsmith installation as well.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sadsit View Post
Virgil, I forget who makes them, but upon reflection I know someone makes aftermarket forged, solid, cylinder bolts for greater strength in the Colt design, but I know they recommend gunsmith installation as well.
Thank you. I'll try to do some more research.
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:54 AM
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If you look at a lot of used single action revolvers, you often notice some have HEAVY scoring around the cylinder and burred up locking bolt notches.

This is a dead giveaway that some fool has been fanning that gun.

The Vaquero has not been out that long compared to say the Blackhawk, but I have seen many a Blackhawk that had heavy cylinder scoring indicative of fanning.

On a Colt style, usually the main spring breaks first. On a Ruger usually some type of plunger in the frame goes first.

Anybody who wants to fan a SAA style revolver is advised to send it off to a gunsmith who is familiar with the needed modifications.

I have seen some customized fanning guns that were practically useless as firearms. Specifically walk-n-draw guns that had steel barrels replaced by aluminum ones. Those guys only fired blanks anyway.
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