» Advanced

Go Back   Shooters Forum > Rifle and Rifle Cartridges > Ex-Military Rifles & Cartridges
Register FAQ Members List Donate Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-05-2009, 06:58 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
Scope mount for 03A3


Registered Users do not see the above ad.


Gentlemen,

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I did a search of the forum and came up empty.

I have a late-40's production Springfield 03A3. I have completed a rather nice sporterized stock for it and would now like to complete the gun with a scope mount. Do any of you have experience with the S&K "Instamount" which requires no drilling or tapping? I would really like to avoid making serious changes to this gun, in case I ever want to revert to the military look and feel.

Also, if any of you have shot this particular model gun, can you tell me if there is any need to avoid working up to the hotter loads for the '06? In other words, is this action a limiting factor, in any way?

Jason
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-05-2009, 01:49 PM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schnecksville, PA
Posts: 2,080
Good choice

I have used S&K InstaMounts on several military rifles and they worked just fine. Your 1903A3 should be safe for published loads as listed in various reloading manuals and follow the recommendations for working up loads. All the best...
Gil
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-05-2009, 02:23 PM
TOG's Avatar
TOG TOG is offline
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Great North Woods of NH
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by broom_jm View Post
Also, if any of you have shot this particular model gun, can you tell me if there is any need to avoid working up to the hotter loads for the '06? In other words, is this action a limiting factor, in any way?
I agree with Gill as far as factory loads or published reloads go, but as much as I love the '03 I must admit it is far from the strongest action available. The cone breech common to the '03 and the pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 facilitates loading but leaves part of the case head unsupported.

Just don't try to make a .300 Magnum out of it and it should be fine.

Good shooting,

The Old Guy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-05-2009, 02:50 PM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,789
Had the Insta-Mount on a couple of 'a3's. If you have a different stock, you will be fine. The front band that circles the receiver just behind the recoil lug will require bedding in the stock.

Never had a problem with hotter than the then factory loadings and always felt confident with the three locking lugs.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-06-2009, 03:59 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
"I have a late-40's production Springfield 03A3"

The Mauser 98 has more unsupported case head (case protrusion) then the 1903A3, the Mauser has .110, the Springfield with the cone (reminds me of a shaped charge) has .090 when measured from the bottom of the extractor cut.

"I have a late-40's production Springfield 03A3"

By the time Remington got into making the Springfield the details on the process was worked out, Remington's process came close to duplicating the early Mauser process, no nickel. Thousands of 03A3 have been chambered in 308 Norma Mag.

I have an 03A4 barrel that is chambered in 308 Norma Mag, I do not have a receiver I am willing to to install it on, yet,

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-06-2009, 04:07 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
Kdub, the Springfield 03 has two locking lugs, the third lug is a safety lug and does not make contact unless something goes seriously wrong, or on the older 03 there is ware and set back. The Mauser third (safety lug) is on the bottom, out of sight, the 03 type safety lug is on top.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-06-2009, 04:41 AM
unclenick's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Posts: 10,914
Mr. Guffey,

I think the process you are referring to may be the double-heat treating process? If so, it actually only replaced the faulty visual heat treating system used with the old ordnance steel in Springfield Armory receivers between about SN 800,000 and about 1,200,000 million or so (with a few exceptions later due to some reintroduction of old stock) and at Rock Island Arsenal only briefly before they went to Nickel steel, if they didn't do it directly? I don't recall that detail. But I believe Springfield found the double-heat treating too labor intensive, and replaced it with nickel steel.

There is a write-up of the receiver failure history, here, but Hatcher is the source, since he was involved in the investigation.
__________________
Nick
__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-06-2009, 05:58 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
"I agree with Gill as far as factory loads or published reloads go, but as much as I love the '03 I must admit it is far from the strongest action available. The cone breech common to the '03 and the pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 facilitates loading but leaves part of the case head unsupported.

Just don't try to make a .300 Magnum out of it and it should be fine".

No, I was referring to the response above, the original question made reference to an early 40s 03A3, not an 03, Remington used a process similar to Mauser's process, the 03A3 is similar to the 03 in appearance and function only.

"But I believe Springfield found---" Nickel was used (but not discovered) by John Browning in 1895, Springfield FOUND nickel 25+ years later, Springfield FOUND a better way to heat treat after building 800,000 plus rifles, Hartford Conn. is just down the Freeway from Springfield Mass (Springfield could not find Winchester/Browning) but Springfield went all the way to Norway (on a government junket) and FOUND the Krag Jorgenson after passing on the Mauser while driving through Germany, we went to Cuba and FOUND Springfield made a mistake.

http://www.cruffler.com/historic-october01.html


The Dains and Norweigans FOUND a way to build a rifle with two locking lugs, Springfield could'nt so they FOUND two locking lugs were not necessary, and the Swiss purchased the 6.5x55 Mauser.

F. Guffey

"Like the Danish Krag rifles, the M1894 actually has two locking lugs: The single forward locking lug and the elongated bolt guide rib both bear on the receiver to provide two locking surfaces. Despite this additional safeguard, Krags should not be considered suitable for"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-06-2009, 06:05 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
sorry about that

http://www.chuckhawks.com/swedish_mauser.htm second

F, Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-06-2009, 07:09 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 691
Don't butcher up that fine old Springfield !!! I saw a Springfield 03 about a year or so ago that was milled for the pederson device and it had been heavily sporterized. I almost threw up right then and there. I tried to buy it, but it was somebody's long, lost, uncle's gun or something. Oh well, I tried !!! HD1
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-06-2009, 07:18 AM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,789
Fguffy - I'm well aware the 3rd lug on the 'a3's doesn't make solid contaact with the receiver upon closing, but as you say - it's there for safety. My bad for saying "locking" lugs.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-06-2009, 07:20 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
I am hoping to keep the gun as clean and original as possible, but I'm interested in shooting it, not looking at it. The S&K mount will allow me to put the rear sight back on, should I ever choose to do so, but I'm tempted to get rid of the front blade altogether. It is currently not on the barrel, which leaves a large band of exposed metal where it is supposed to be installed. I am considering having that cut off, or a muzzle-brake installed, but will probably take the least expensive option and just have the front band/blade put back on. This will result in a slightly compromised view from the scope, but it has the least impact on the gun and that is why I'm looking into the S&K Insta-mount.

I'll be sure to use starting to medium loads until I'm confident their are no signs of pressure.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-06-2009, 07:51 AM
unclenick's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Posts: 10,914
Mr. Guffey,

I'm well aware of the externally visible physical differences between '03 and 03A3, but was not aware the receiver steel specification had undergone yet another steel and/or process change since the '03 problems had originally been solved. Especially since Remington borrowed all the Rock Island Arsenal machinery for production when the British first ordered them. I do recall the 03A3's put together in the 1960's that are marked "National Ordnance" used new investment cast receivers.

I have also heard the heat treatment is different between the Remington and Smith Corona receivers from the WWII production, but have no first-hand knowledge of it. I've never had an SC 03A3. Perhaps you can verify or correct that heat treatment difference?
__________________
Nick
__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

Last edited by unclenick; 10-06-2009 at 07:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:09 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
"In 1941, Remington leased the machinery at Rock Island Arsenal to produce M1903 rifles for an anticipated contract from Great Britain, but few were delivered due to U.S. entry into World War II. To reduce the time and cost of manufacture, parts such as the floorplate, trigger guard, and bands were constructed from stamped steel. Enough changes were made that these rifles were reclassified as the Model of 1903 (Modified) to distinguish them from earlier rifles.
It was necessary to issue several M1903 rifles to each U.S. Army unit for"

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

Borrow/lease, sale/anticipated sale, heat/reheat/new discovery of nickle (new to Springfield), Remington did not heat, then reheat or add nickel, Remington's process was more like Mauser's process.

Remington was supposed to get into a hurry, Remington had a delay they did not did not anticipate, the leased equipment from Rock Island was not acceptable, Remington would not run the equipment as delivered, Rock Island 'COULD' have had their feelings hurt or resentment loosing the jobs but to Remington the equipment was sabotaged or set up by an arsenal that did not know what they were doing, ( Rock Island manufactured 240,000 rifles that were suspect and had had a good reason for not being able to find Hartford Conn., 900 miles plus further away than Springfield Mass.. Had it not been for the British designed P14/M1917 and the combined effort by Remington/Winchester it would have been business as usual at Springfield, after all their track record could not be defended, Browning was designing and building machine guns in the early 1890s, Springfield went half way around the world and found the Krag, and they could not find Browning/Winchester just a few miles down the freeway, yes whild Browning was designing and building repeaters, Springfioled was making single shots, and sent us to Cuba with the Krag.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:14 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 848
yes while Browning---

forgive,

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:21 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
I am mostly just interested in the S&K Instamounts, but the history lesson is somewhat fascinating. Mine is a Smith-Corona model...are there any quality issues I should be concerned about?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:13 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,416
Original question involved scope mount.

get the redfield one piece and you will like it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:27 AM
The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 19,789
The S&K Insta-Mount will fit your SC just fine. That was the type I first mounted the S&K on. Again, you need to relieve the replacement stock in the front receiver area to allow for the encircling band. Other than that, not much to it. The scope will sit pretty high when mounted - hope the new stock has a good Monte Carlo rise to it.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
NRA Certified Police Firearms Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NAHC Life Member

"Firearms only have two enemies - rust and politicans" author unknown
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Beartooth Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mooresville, IN
Posts: 9,047
The after-market stock has a substantial (huge?!) monte carlo rise so hopefully I'll be able to get my cheek into the gun when shooting.

Langenc - Does the Redfield one-piece base require any drilling and tapping? That is something I want to avoid, at all costs.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long eye relief scope ccabralx Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun Scopes 4 05-26-2009 01:09 PM
best scope mount for a 94trapper? winlegend Winchester 94 Lever Guns 30 05-25-2009 08:01 AM
Shim or bend old Weaver N2 mount? poinlaw Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun Scopes 1 03-31-2009 03:06 AM
1911 Scope mount Bud W Handguns 2 08-04-2008 09:42 AM
Who can install a Cantilever Scope Mount? 41_Shooter Gunsmithing 3 12-20-2007 01:20 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:28 AM.

< Contact Us - Shooters Forum - Archive >

 
 

All Content & Design Copyright © 1999-2002 Beartooth Bullets, All Rights Reserved
View Privacy Policy | Contact Webmaster | Legal Information
Website Design & Development By Exbabylon Internet Solutions
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2