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  #1  
Old 04-28-2011, 09:00 PM
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1903a3


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Any one here loading for this rifle? Does commercial brass and ammo do ok in this rifle?
I do have some NATO brass. don
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:28 AM
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I use both, military and commercial brass, I also determine head space first then form and or size cases to fit the chamber to fit the chamber. Checking head space on the 1903 or 1903A3 is the easiest of all rifles to check for head space.

The difference between military and commercial cases is the thickness of the web from the head of the case to the top of the web, military cases have a case head thickness of .200 +,- a few, Commercial case head thickness of the commercial 30/06 case is .260 thousands +

Military brass is said to be heavier because it weight more? it does weigh more but has a thinner case head, meaning the weight is in the case body, commercial 30/06 R-P cases have a heavy case head and a thin case body, for those that can keep up the powder column in the military case is longer but smaller in diameter than the powder column of the commercial case.

While you are waiting for your go-gage to arrive, try this, purchase a machinist feeler gager (cost from $6.00 to 11.00 dollars, once you have it on the reloading bench let me know.

If you have a press, die and shell holder and the comapanion tool to the press, the feeler gage, you can size/form cases that fit the chamber, my favorite 30/06 case is the 280 Remington case or cases I purchase at the firing range that have been fired in trashy old chambers.

F. Guffey
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  #3  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:37 AM
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Or brass that has been fired in a machine gun, or brass that has been fired in an M1, because I am told the cases are longer from the head of the case to it's shoulder because when it was removed from the chamber, it was not ready to come out.

F. Guffey
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  #4  
Old 04-29-2011, 03:15 AM
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Don,

The 03A3 has been used extensively by the civilian market. My buddies and I shoot handloads and factory ammo through ours, both with commercial brass. In fact, if the history I've been given of my 03A3 is accurate, it has undoubtedly had far more commercial brass through it than "NATO" ammo. Which brings me to my question for you:

Is your 03A3 chambered in 30-'06 or 308 Winchester? The reason I ask is some folks confuse the two and, to the best of my knowledge, most 03A3 rifles are chambered in 30-'06. Few people refer to 30-'06 military brass as "NATO"; that's what they call 308 (7.62x51 NATO) rounds. Are you sure you've got your nomenclature right?
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:10 AM
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I don't know why I used the term NATO. I know it isn't, so much for that.
According to my two test rounds it is 30-06. I don't think a 30-06 would chamber in a 308.
I was just concerned about the cases being the same measurements. Or should I say chamber.
I always use the remote, tire, string, bungee cord firing method on a newly purchased war horse.
As for head space, the 2 rounds of Federal commercial ammo I fired in it looks fine. it was 150 grain bullet. Firing pin indentation looks good, primer not backed out, no excessive stretch marks,etc. don
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2011, 08:30 AM
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Sounds like you have a nice rifle. Enjoy!
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2011, 08:59 AM
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In my opinion Don, you have one of the most useful of military rifles. The one's I've owned have been trouble free and accurate. Like was mentioned check head space. I normally neck size, if full length resizing, try not to bump the shoulder back more than .001 or so. I've heard many negative comments on the two groove barrels and the unsupported case head. In real life neither has been an issue.
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  #8  
Old 04-29-2011, 11:45 AM
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MontyF, the unsupported case case problem is more about a problem that is repeated over and over based on what someone heard or read and did not understand what they were being told or did not read the sentence before or after 'unsupported case head. I have never found an 03 or 03A3 with more than .090 thousands case head protrusion (+ or - very few) when measured from the bottom of the extractor grove cut in the head of the case, meaning more of the case head is supported than the .090 indicate. Given the fact the Mauser unsupported case head is .110 (+ or - very few thousands) plus head space the unsupported cases head for the Mauser is greater. Of the Mausers + or -, it is rare to find one with +.005.

But just in case I measure the thickness of the web from the head of the case to the top of the cup in the bottom of the case, military brass like LC measures .200, I have read unsupported case head on the 03 can be as high as .175, if that were true only .025 of the case head would be supported and if a heavy load was fired and the column of brass (case head)would be crushed/yielded the results could be catrophic, not a recommendation but just in case the chamber allowed the .175 unsupported case head commercial R-P brass would be a better choice, the P-P commercial case head is .260 thousand thick, in any event the R-P case would have more case head support.

If Springfield, no had Hatcher decided unsupported case head was a problem he could have designed a go-gage that would check for the maximum unsupported case head allowed based on the thickness of the case head or they could have designed the tool to mimic the unsupported case head of the Mauser.. Mauser had a flat face on the barrel and Springfield had a cone, so the tool would require a radius.

I have tools with out instructions, they are unfinished and were used in arsenals, that leaves me with guessing how the tool was used, I have taken some to gun shows and with a lot of time ask resource people if they could help in identifying the use of the tool, so far no no one has a clue, with one exception, Don Wooldridge a collector, resource, builder of 03s, 03A3s and Mi s said he saw a picture of one of the tools in Bophrie's book. Anyhow, I can check case head protrusion, ream a chamber with a pull through reamer, and check head space with two of the tools, another tool has to be a tool that checks the space between the bolt face and and cone, something like ' if the bolt closes on this tool, there is too much unsupported case head. again, the tool does not indicate 'how much' so the person using the tool has the opportunity to be creative.

F. Guffey

Last edited by fguffey; 04-29-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-29-2011, 04:54 PM
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My 03A3

Why has the bolt got a tight place. Is it possible it's a new receiver and bolt and is not worn enough to be seated? I think it is the ring of the extractor hitting the under side of the bridge. This is the only place on the whole rifle that shows signs of ware. It doesn't even have the signs of fired cartridges on the face of the bolt. When I took the stock off to clean it the barrel even looked new.
Any suggestions?don
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  #10  
Old 04-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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Just curious, who made the receiver?
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:12 PM
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F Guffey, thanks for some insights on the technical aspects involved. Since the pre 64 Model 70's have a similar design, have you taken measurements on them?
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  #12  
Old 04-29-2011, 05:19 PM
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According to the info I got on sr#'s it is a Dec 1943 receiver made by Remington with a Sept. 43 barrel.don
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  #13  
Old 04-29-2011, 05:23 PM
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Is the bolt RA too?
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  #14  
Old 04-29-2011, 05:26 PM
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The bolt has B&S stamped in itand a # stenciled on the handle.don

The safety does have an R

Last edited by donald fs; 04-29-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:44 PM
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Don, I'm drawing a blank on the B&S bolt. Do you have another A3 bolt you can try to see if it still has the tight spot?
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  #16  
Old 04-29-2011, 08:05 PM
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I don't have another. I can see where it is dragging. The side rail on the under side of the of the bridge.
don

I am going to shoot as is and let time and friction ware it down to get seated. This receiver shows no signs of being used for any amount of time. d

Last edited by donald fs; 05-03-2011 at 08:18 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2011, 12:56 AM
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Brown & Sharp

F. Guffey
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2011, 12:59 AM
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http://www.vishooter.net/m1903.html

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  #19  
Old 04-30-2011, 02:06 AM
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MontyF, I know I have one Model 70 barrel that is not installed, it is stamped 30 GOV 1906 I will check today after I dig out two M1917s.

F. Guffey
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2011, 05:53 AM
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Thank you.... like my signature says, "Still learnin' as I go"
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