The sad truth about hunting now

Greenhorn Dave · #1 03-10-2005, 06:58 PM

Here's a problem looking for a solution. Best I can figure: gently and responsibly train all the young people you can. Dave

Studies: Interest in Hunting Fading By ANGIE WAGNER Associated Press Writer

March 10, 2005, 2:19 PM EST

As a teenager, Bryan Dinkins and his grandfather would go out before dawn on many a winter morning to hunt duck. They would quietly discuss school and life while waiting for the birds.

Dinkins, now 40, hasn't been hunting in six years. He's too busy, he says, and anyway it would take six hours to drive somewhere to hunt ducks in California.

It's a common lament in the new century, a time when urbanization and hectic lives can get in the way of hunting traditions. Hunting now is not just about when to go, but where to go? How much will it cost? And, more than ever, who will go?

"If we think about how the country was explored and developed, it was hunters, it was trappers," said Steve Williams, director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "If we lost that, I think in some way we lose part of the American character."

Across the country, the number of hunters declined from 14.06 million to 13.03 million, or 7.3 percent, from 1991 to 2001, according to the Census Bureau and the Fish and Wildlife Service. The drop was greater in the West -- 9.6 percent, from 2.46 million to 2.22 million.

Hunting has survived through generations by fathers passing the tradition on to their children, and families bonding during hunting trips. But many people have given up on hunting, or never tried it at all.

The decline in Western hunters came even as the population jumped. California had the largest drop -- from 446,000 to 274,000, or 38.6 percent -- followed by Colorado, Arizona and Nevada. Washington, Wyoming, Oregon and Hawaii had slight declines.

Most hunters said in the 2001 Census and in the Fish and Wildlife survey that they did not hunt as much as they would have liked because they were too busy or had family or work obligations. The reasons were the same for those who gave up hunting altogether, another study found.

As the West becomes more urban, with new residents flocking to cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix, development inevitably leads to fewer hunting lands.

"A generation or so ago, it was still possible to take a son and daughter out to the country, knock on a farmer's door and be out in the field hunting in pretty short order," said George Cooper, spokesman for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.

"That's how young people got into hunting. Loss of habitat due to sprawl and landowner worries about liability have made that sort of old-fashioned access hard to come by," he said.

Those who rely on private land often find they must pay for the privilege, and it can be expensive. Duck hunting for the season may cost $10,000 on a private hunting preserve.

Eventually, it will be up to children to carry on the tradition. But a study by Responsive Management, a public opinion research firm for natural resources issues, found if people are not exposed to hunting before they are 16 or 17, they likely will not hunt as adults.

And the more people grow up in urban areas, the less likely they are to be exposed to the hunting culture, said Mark Damian Duda, executive director of the group.

"That's the big, broad demographic trend that's taken its toll on hunting," he said.

Many states are promoting hunting by sponsoring outreach programs and youth hunts.

But the state fish and wildlife agencies that are working to recruit and retain hunters face their own threats. Most depend on hunting license sales for money, and as the number of hunters drops, programs are cut and jobs are left unfilled.

California is suffering the worst. The game warden staff has been cut by 25 percent over the last few years; budgets for wildlife managers have been slashed; maintenance is lacking.

"We had counties where we didn't even have a warden present," said Lorna Bernard, spokeswoman for the California Department of Fish and Game.

It's a delicate relationship that hunters and state agencies share. States depend on hunters to help fund their conservation projects and to control animal populations.

"Traditionally, the people that have paid for and cared for wildlife have been hunters and anglers," said Steve Huffaker, director of Idaho Fish and Game and past president of the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies.

"If we lose that support base, then we're concerned who's going to be there to take up the needs of fish and wildlife in the future," he said.

* __

Associated Press writer Bob Anez in Helena, Mont., contributed to this report. Wagner reported from Las Vegas.

* ___

On the Net:

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service: http://www.fws.gov/

Responsive Management: http://www.responsivemanagement.com/

Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership: http://www.trcp.org/

International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies: http://www.iafwa.org/

mattsbox99 · #2 03-10-2005, 08:34 PM

Interesting.... as a hunter safety instructor, I've seen our classroom numbers, number of classes, and other activants (instructors, and Hunter ed programs) increase dramatically int he last few years. Montana has the highest percentage of hunters at 25%, so it may just be a tradition thing.

Greenhorn Dave · #3 03-11-2005, 05:10 AM

I think there are a lot or reasons why hunting is declining. Animal rights activists' influence in public schools is one. Second reason is our great focus on materialism. Average Americans work longer for things and investments than those who were adults during WWII, and they are willing to live far from wilderness to get those things and have conveniences, so going to the woods with kids is very infrequent. With so many people being able to afford to do so many things, hunting becomes a minor event in a year of activities. An event that can get skipped year after year and not missed so much because there is plenty of other recreation to do.

We have taught a couple of dozen kids to shoot over the years. My wife has been saying lately that both of us should get NRA certified to teach basic rifle and pistol. I think she is right -- we live in a world of certification for practically everything. So certification to "prove we're trustworthy and competent" is probably what we need to teach more kids now that ours are grown. Even a short teaching session plus a little range time will at least put a spark in some kids (read my story below). No doubt, we will also learn some good things by taking instructor training.

Contrary to the news article, I did not become a gun owner until 38 years old, when I did it to train our young sons. BUT I was open to doing that because about 25 or 30 years before someone had taught me to shoot a 22 rimfire rifle. He was an old guy who was a big game hunter. His own kids were grown and accomplished hunters. He actually went out and bought a youth size 22 single shot bolt Marlin to teach some of the neighborhood kids!! I remembered those 50 or 100 shots the rest of my life!!!
My bit of training with M-16 in the USAF did not create an interest. It was that small 22 rimfire experience as a boy (plus watching a lot of cowboy movies too.)

There is an old guy around here (about 80) who will train my wife and me for the price of the NRA registration. The only other instructor trainers I have found want about $200+ per person to get the job done. We are thinking about it.

T-BIRD · #4 03-11-2005, 07:17 PM

Usually the cost of becoming an instructor is to pay the cost of travel, range rental, ammunition, and training materials. I have not done it for awhile, but you may be able to get the training at either the local gun club(still not free)or an indepent program, who are frequently non-profit, and when you get the certification, teach through the 4-H Program. It's a good outfit with lots of kids, both boys and girls, interested. You could become a 4-H leader, or make yourself available to the groups for a nominal fee, ammo and targets, and sometimes you can borrow airguns or .22's. Here in Alaska, the local range and the Gun Collectors Asoc. put on a youth appreciation day. They use all the clubs from different shooting sports and as many NRA instructors as possible. They have an age limit for participation, but younger kids with parents can watch. They even bus them from town at the community center. It has really grown over the years and everyone gets involved from SWAT, National Guard, Cowboys, Etc.
It's a real rewarding day for all. Go for it!

warlock · #5 01-02-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-BIRD

Usually the cost of becoming an instructor is to pay the cost of travel, range rental, ammunition, and training materials. I have not done it for awhile, but you may be able to get the training at either the local gun club(still not free)or an indepent program, who are frequently non-profit, and when you get the certification, teach through the 4-H Program. It's a good outfit with lots of kids, both boys and girls, interested. You could become a 4-H leader, or make yourself available to the groups for a nominal fee, ammo and targets, and sometimes you can borrow airguns or .22's. Here in Alaska, the local range and the Gun Collectors Asoc. put on a youth appreciation day. They use all the clubs from different shooting sports and as many NRA instructors as possible. They have an age limit for participation, but younger kids with parents can watch. They even bus them from town at the community center. It has really grown over the years and everyone gets involved from SWAT, National Guard, Cowboys, Etc.
It's a real rewarding day for all. Go for it!

I can tell you one major drawback to my interest in hunting is getting the time off to take a multiday instructional course.

I definitely think this course should be offered, but I also think you should be able to test out of this course if you are able to demonstrate the necessary knowledge.

Working full-time and going to school full-time, I just don't have time.

For now I have to resign myself to target shooting.

T.R. · #6 01-02-2006, 01:36 PM

It is a trend that won't stop. I'm afraid that fee-to-hunt is here to stay. Ranchers charge tresspass fees and harvest fees across the West. Even on public lands, Outfitters hold leases and can make you leave.

Rabbit populations are way down due to lack of guys trapping foxes. Too many foxes!

Gates are up at all the National Forests. Public access is very limited compared to 20 years ago. Forest Service claims 4WD vehicles cause too much erosion. HUH?

Hunting and gun ownership coming to an end? Almost seems part of a clever plan doesn't it?
TR

mattsbox99 · #7 01-02-2006, 02:05 PM

I find all of your statements to be completely untrue in my part of the west. 4.3 million acres involved in Block Management programs, providing access for thousands of hunters for only $2 a season. A state lands use permit now included in your conservation license at a reduced rate allows access on all state lands...

I don't see gun stores closing down, or prices rising that fast... I've never met a gate that I couldn't go through at a national forest...

Cottontail populations are directly affected by water resources, this year we finally got decent moisture, and the cottontail population has exploded. Haven't seen a fox in years.

Greenhorn Dave · #8 01-03-2006, 04:02 AM

We don't have a lot of rabbits where I live in Florida - at least ones that I can find without beagles.

There are foxes, bobcats and plenty of hawks that no doubt keep the population down. I am not sure that there ever was a really large rabbit population before men cleared the land for farming.

It seems to me the best rabbit populations can be found around old style farm fields, like I once had access to. The farmer planted and mowed where he had to, but left a lot of weeds around the edges. I could always count on taking a rabbit or two on a walk around the property. The new style of farming without leaving any hedgerows and killing off the weeds around the edges really makes rabbits scarce.

markkw · #9 01-03-2006, 05:07 AM

I have lots of predators here in FL too and not a single bunny. Bought chickens & bunnies and despite giving them plenty of cover lost everyone to hawks, owls, coyote and fox. Only way to keep anything smaller than full grown peacocks or turkeys is to completely pen them up from both land and air attack.

I haven't been hunting either. Biggest shortcoming is money, can't afford to take any time off at all or I'll get futher in the toilet than I already am. Second problem is physical, back and knees got the better of me and there's simply no way I can get around the woods like I used to nor be able to drag a deer or hog any distance.

hpdrifter · #10 01-03-2006, 04:00 PM

cost is skyrocketing, access is tough, bills keep pilin up, so I didn't buy a license this year; for me or my son. I kinda wished everyone would not buy a license for a year or two. Seems the gov wants a fee to breath on public land anymore.

mattsbox99 · #11 01-04-2006, 12:45 AM

Wow thats difficult to understand...

My license costs $13 for a buck tag and $8 for a doe tag. $25 in gas gets me to my hunting spot 75 miles away.

I'd go crazy if I couldn't hunt or fish or even go shooting.

weave · #12 01-04-2006, 12:32 PM

I can surely relate to that news story.

I used to get 5 weeks vacation and up to 2 more weeks comp time per year. Man, I was gone come October-November. My house was a stones throw away from the Erie Canal so fishing in the summer was a near daily occurance too. My end of the canal was loaded with smallmouth bass and northern pike.

Unfortunately the fantastic economy in upstate New York changed all that. My employer closed shop and I had to find work elsewhere.

My current job leaves me with 3 weeks vaca, 2 of which MUST be used in July. That gives me a measly 5 days of discretionary vacation time for hunting and trout season. I relocated for this job and don't have the convenience of good fishable water next door anymore. Top it all off with 9-10 hour days, some 6 day work-weeks, and a 45 minute commute and you get precious little time left to spread out among hobbies, housework, and junior's baseball team. I would love to get back to the days of going out hunting and fishing regularly. Especially now that my son is coming upon legal hunting age. Unfortunately, short of winning the lottery, I don't see myself getting back to a point where I can really spend the time that I would like to, teaching my son all about the outdoors. It depresses me to write that.

For all of you that are in situations that allow you to hunt and fish regularly, cherish it. It can go away in a heart beat. I only hope that I can pass on my love of the outdoors to my son in the very limited time I have available to try.

I know this all sounds like griping but it is a good job that that I do enjoy. And it allows us financially to have Mom stay home and be a full time Mom, which we both think is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, good jobs like that are hard to come by and often require long hours and/or long commutes. Mine requires both. Sacrifices, I guess.

MikeW

BAGTIC · #13 01-09-2006, 07:19 PM

I moved from California to Missouri this year. Compared to California hunting and fishing licenses are dirt cheap here. I don't even need a license to hunt on my own land and when I turn 65 in two years my general hunting and fishing licenses will be free though I will need to pay for the deer, turkey 'tags' and the federal waterfowl stamp.

sobenk · #14 01-12-2006, 07:54 PM

This is a good topic for me as I'm researching about how and where to hunt here in Southern CA.

There's a big mountainous area that starts about 9 miles from my house (Angeles National Forest). I would say that there's not much wildlife there except the other day I had to wait while 3 deer crossed the road. There are lots of restrictions for taking game but I will try and find out how insurmountable they are. Otherwise I plan to hike around and look for signs of game so I can become familiar with the area in the off-season.

Another idea is to drive north where wild pigs can be found; there are some pig hunting guides available.

I guess the point is, where there's a will, there's a way. Personally I'd rather be the only one out there hunting.

Mttopdeweller · #15 01-23-2006, 04:42 PM

Well you`ll have to do like some of us have done.Some of my buddies formed a corporation saved up and bought 610 acres just for hunting, sold the timber and bought more land went in and built food plots planted trees now they spend most of their time keeping poachers out.I saved up and bought 80 acres of steep mountain side cut several roads for walking and hunting, leveled off some benches to plant food plots.planted trees for cover and food.Get 10 people together with the same goals if each person borrows 10,000 thats 100000 go to a lawyer and have a legal agreement drawn up form a corporation, hunting club what ever you want to call it each person will have 1/10 share in said corp, have meetings each person has a vote.If you really want to hunt you`ll relocate, change jobs.One of my buddies went to a depressed area of West Virginia were land is cheap and formed a Corp with a bunch of guys and bought a large track of land built a cabin did all kinds of improvements 10 years later thier killing large bucks with big racks.One buddy bought 100 acres of rock pile hired afew legal immagrants to clean rocks and put them on pallots and made a million dollars selling rocks to home depot,Lowes some large rocks have been put on trains and shipped to New york, landscape for large corporations.If there is a will, there`s a way, All just for hunting.Look at golf courses and how there started

Dima · #16 01-24-2006, 11:45 AM

Well, here is a story. I'm a new immigrant from Russia. I'm living in America (Chicago area) for 10 years. As soon as I've got my Green Card (permanent residence status) I joined local sportsman's club and shooting trap and skeet. However, I went hunting just a couple times (dove). I can't find any place to hunt but public parks... I posted questions to all available to me farmers boards and associations asking permission to hunt their land offering different services in return - no reply. Probably, people are scared with my possible KGB connection? It is very difficult to start hunting if you are new in any country. Just my couple of cents...

craig61a · #17 01-24-2006, 06:22 PM

I haven't checked the latest license purchases here in Minnesota, but I don't think there was a drastic decline in licenses purchased in the past few years. Maybe for ducks, but the ducks have moved to the west (South Dakota), but they are starting to make a comeback here.

On occasion I do hunt on public land, which works great for me, since I get out there about an hour and a half before sunrise and walk 3/4 - 1 mile back in the woods. All the rest of the 'deer hunters' show up just before sunrise and push the deer to me. I got a doe opening morning and a nice buck the next day last season. I see quite a few people out for opening deer firearms season every year, not sure if the numbers are more or less - seems about the same to me.

Alot of the good hunting spots I used to hunt years ago have been bought up by people who live or used to live in the cities, and may get hostile if you set foot on their land to ask permission or say something like 'you want to shoot our cute little deer?' But it's there land so what can you do? Or they tell you can hunt there if each guy pays something like $800 a piece. Forunately there are still some private areas I have permission to hunt, and there is a lot of open state land that doesn't have tons of other hunters on it, you just have to hike a bit - butthat's what hunting is all about...

bearmgc · #18 01-24-2006, 06:57 PM

Here in Wyoming, there's been some drastic increases in the price of licenses, and the closing of some public land to 4WD. That in addition to loss of habitat has increased the hunting pressure in accessible areas. Unfortumately, pay to hunt is a pervasive trend now. I know several people who were just fed up and who swore they wouldn't buy another license next year. This is my third year without an elk, and not for trying. There was a crowd where ever I went. I can't afford horses to hunt the wilderness backcountry.

Mttopdeweller · #19 01-28-2006, 03:29 AM

In this area in the 70`s papermills owned large tracks of land 30,000 acres plus and would do selective cutting.Hunting was allowed until people from the city started cutting fire wood.the company had no choice they had to lease it to a hunting club and the deal was the hunting club called the police whenever they saw someone cutting firewood.Coal companies own large tracks of land they use to let people buy a permit to hunt.Between the papermills shuting down and the old farms being sold, cut up into small tracks for houseing.People who use to live in town,move to the country and drive an hour to work.We use to hunt were thousands of homes are now,more being built everyday.People who have lived here all there life are seeing retired people come here and pay large amounts of money for property,that the locals cannot afford.Alot of the homes are summer homes or an investment for the snowbirds up north.People are moving to the country trying to get away from the crime in the city.Its scary how fast these large farms are being developed.Powerlines, gas lines,roads, 3 walmarts,and 3 lowes superstores within a 45 min drive its a feeding frenzy, there gobbling everything up.I wish they would go back to the city.My grandfather saw this area go from one lane dirt roads to 4 lanes with 10,000 cars a day passing through.It won`t stop, I use to live in the country, a city is being built around me and there`s no stopping it.Where we use to trout fish there`s a golf course for the retired rich with ponds with goldfish in them. the trout died from the lawn chemicals that wash into the creek.One mans Pleasure another mans Pain.Alot of my hunting buddies gave up hunting an now play golf .Yuck The ones who use to trout fish, now take $30,000 dollar bass boats and fish bass tournaments.Yuck Enjoy hunting while you can its day is coming to an end.Unless your filthy rich.

snoke · #20 02-12-2006, 08:21 PM

So I moved to SW CO, and now I see more deer than I used to see rabbits. Hitting elk with cars is a real threat to human life around here. I'd never, ever move back East.