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  #1  
Old 03-10-2006, 04:28 PM
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Wolf Report from reknowned biologist Valerius Geist


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From "THE HUNTING REPORT"

We have this important warning for outdoorsmen in a fascinating report written by ethologist Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Science, the University of Calgary, Canada. Professor Geist has over 30 years experience studying North American species and has based his findings on first-hand experiences with wolves while studying wild sheep, elk, antelope and bison across Canada and while living among increasingly bold wolves on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. He points to evidence from several recent wolf attacks, including a geological engineering student who was killed by four wolves in northern Saskatchewan this past November.

The victim had reported only days earlier to a local biologist that he was "elated" to see wolves close up. "Neither of them was aware that the appearance of tame, inquisitive wolves is a sign of extreme danger," says Geist. "Consequently, the first requirement is that we inform the general public, but especially sportsmen, that when they see tame, inquisitive wolves, they get out of there or be prepared to shoot."

He goes on in his report to say, "The argument that this could hardly be danger, as wolves so rarely attack people is fallacious. Over the past decades we have experienced a unique situation in North America", Geist says. "We had a recovery of wildlife, beginning with an increase in herbivores that was followed after a lag-time by an increase in predators. While predators are scarce and herbivores are abundant, wolves are very shy of people, and we expect to see no tame, inquisitive wolves. When herbivore numbers decline, and predator numbers increase - which is the situation we have now - wolves disperse and begin exploring for new prey. That is when tame, inquisitive wolves appear."

In addition to his own studies, Geist also references literature from Russia and Europe that documents such wolf behavior. He warns, "There are already moves afoot to defend the current romantic notions about friendly, cuddly wolves, evidence to the contrary be ****ed! It is necessary therefore that the public be informed about a large amount of experience and information to the contrary. And the public should know the signs of danger before heading into the wilds. And tame, inquisitive wolves are one such sign!"

We have posted Professor Geist's complete report on our web site. Simply click below to get the 'real skinny' on why North American wolves are becoming dangerous to outdoorsmen and other wilderness lovers:


(An Important Warning About 'Tame' Wolves http://www.huntingreport.com/other_h...?articleid=120
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2006, 08:29 PM
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I just read in our newspaper here in Lewiston Id. that the wolf population in Idaho is now believed to be over 1000 instead of the 600 the federal government is saying we have.

This bolsters the fact that last hunting season I listened to wolves gather every evening at my hunting camp just 4 1/2 miles out of Pierce Id.

We are also getting a lot more sightings in this area and Idaho Fish and Game is trying to elimanate at lest 50 or so on the Lolo Montana border.

Our elk are at a long time low this past two years and both habitat and the increasing wolf population has been blamed.

I used to carry a 22 pistol in the woods, but last year swapped that out for a 41 mag of near the same weight.

Over the last two years of deer, elk and turkey hunting in basically the same area I have yet to see a wolf, though tracks are plenty and elk have become almost impossible to find or see and even the deer appear much more skittish than even five years ago.

Twenty years ago driving up the North fork of the Clearwater river in the early spring would bring sightings of hundreds and hundreds of elk. Last spring my grandbabies and I counted about 50 in the same area.

Another sign is the increasing deer populations in the smaller towns such as the one I live in. When I was growing up here you hardly ever saw a deer in town, just to many dogs and such. Now we have a resident deer population of over 150 and even though chased by dogs they have learned to get along with them.
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:14 AM
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Bob, you know as well as I do, Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up. Them federal boys don't know a **** thing.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2006, 09:06 AM
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Bob,
Same thing all over Idaho right now. I have hunted Island Park for the last 5 years and the same thing. 2 Years ago my Son and I had a Wolf howling between us and we where something like 50 yards apart, we never seen the Wolf. Last fall, very few Elk tracks and Wolf tracks all over.

I am still afraid if they listed the Wolf as a predator tomorrow, we could not kill them off fast enough to save the rest of the Wildlife.
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:24 AM
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Interesting article, alyeska, and from someone with credibility. It will be interesting in the coming years how many of those that subscribe to the "wolves are cuddly" thinking make a fatal mistake. I liken it to the "bears are cuddly" crowd, quite a few of which have met their demise.
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:34 AM
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There's a reason why there were bounties on wolves in the days of our forefathers. Reintroductions and extreme protection of these animals has always seemed like a bad idea to me.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:51 PM
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The Mexican Red wolf reintroduction didn't go too well here along the Arizona/New Mexico state line. Fed's had to corral up what few remained (not sure just how active the state G&F's were in the program) and keep them penned until they figure out what to do next. Apparently, there was a lot of the "SSS" being practiced, plus the legal killing of some caught in the act of destroying livestock. Had a couple of guys in each state charged with shooting a wolf - haven't heard of any outcome on the charges, though.

Recently read where a male wolf can and will crossbreed with a female coyote, producing a smaller, more cunning and opportunitistic predator. This is in the latest issue of the Smithsonion magazine, where they were talking of urbanized coyotes. People are noticing the coyotes in urban areas are getting more "friendly" and losing their fear of humans. They have been driven out of what used to be their natural habitats and have found compartively easy pickings in urban areas. After a couple of generations, they've adapted and consider the place their natural environment. California has recorded several coyote attacks, with the killing of a 3 year old girl playing in her own yard. Here, several years ago, a father noticed his 18 month old son disappearing out the front door, being dragged head first. He ran to the rescue of his son being dragged off by a coyote.

Man's tampering with the balance of nature usually has very adverse affects. Don't know just what the answer is - would hate to see the wolves disappear completely, but do think they cause havoc when reintroduced into areas that have been wolf free for many, many years. That country is no longer as wild as before they were driven from it. Too many recreational activities now take place on that land. The unknowing or uncaring are gonna end up getting processed through the digestive tracts of bears and wolves, I'm afraid.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:58 PM
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faucettb,
I’m seeing a change in our deer behavior as well, although my neighbors aren’t noticing that change (could be just me). I do not live in a wolf area, and our cougar and bear sign have been in decline for some time. But our deer are seeming to seek human companionship. And they only keep watch on federal land, not human territory; that bothers me most. The deer formerly want to visit my pasture have moved into town instead; I now have elk coming down, in the early afternoon. And ain’t no reason for it; they are leaving better grazing to be with humans.
When we did have bear and cougar bothering our deer, they would come down into our yard. Seemed to think my dogs would protect them. Against bear, they were right.
Deer inspire one of two reactions in most dogs. Either kill, or protect the herd as territory. Strongest protect the herd response I’ve seen was from a multi-ribboned field trial Lab.

This federal wolf thing is so wrong, ain’t no tidbit of right in it. We had all the wolves we needed. First order of business for the exotic transplants was to run them off. Along with deer and elk populations and human concerns, I am also concerned that a native species (native wolves) that was in equilibrium has been set at danger by the federal government. It was working just fine, and so they had to fix it.

I think the first order of business for any solution is to get the federal government out of it. The Endangered Species Act strikes me as glaringly unconstitutional. Should be a state thing.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2006, 09:48 AM
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V. Geist is correct, of course.
We need to educate the public about wolves. They need to know the truth, not the silly gossip that one reads on forums like this one.
Its great to see this important and majestic animal return to our wild places! Go wolves!

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Old 03-13-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boreal
V. Geist is correct, of course.
We need to educate the public about wolves. They need to know the truth, not the silly gossip that one reads on forums like this one.
Its great to see this important and majestic animal return to our wild places! Go wolves!

You evidently didn't read Mr Geists report, and as far as silly gossip on forums like this, The posters here are mostly hunters, farmers, and ranchers who have come into contact with the wolves in question that are dangerous to them and their livelyhood. You are right, people need to be informed aout how dangerous these imported animals are, and that they are not cute cuddly animals that "The friends of Animals and P.E.T.A. would have us to believe. And the Education needs to start with our Government Officials who are not qualified to make enviormental impact decisions, due to their failure to get the straight word from those who come into contact with these animals. Imported wolves are not the same as native wolves no matter how they look. The State Game and Fish Departments should be the ones to regulate their control, NOT WASHINGTON DC.!!

Lee L.

Last edited by M1894; 03-13-2006 at 10:47 AM.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2006, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1894
You evidently didn't read Mr Geists report, and as far as silly gossip on forums like this, The posters here are mostly hunters, farmers, and ranchers who have come into contact with the wolves in question that are dangerous to them and their livelyhood. You are right, people need to be informed aout how dangerous these imported animals are, and that they are not cute cuddly animals that "The friends of Animals and P.E.T.A. would have us to believe. And the Education needs to start with our Government Officials who are not qualified to make enviormental impact decisions, due to their failure to get the straight word from those who come into contact with these animals. Imported wolves are not the same as native wolves no matter how they look. The State Game and Fish Departments should be the ones to regulate their control, NOT WASHINGTON DC.!!

Lee L.

I read it very carefully and agree with Geist (I usually do) that wolves can become dangerous if not afraid of humans. I've preached that for 20 years because I've seen it here in northern Minn. I had wolves in my back yard last night! I am a hunter of 45 years. I come from a farming family. The "posters here" got nothin' on me.
The government officials ARE the most qualified on the subject. WE are trained in the field and have practiced management in our positions. I've been a resource manager for 24 years.
You may find it interesting that "eco-wolfers" here in Minnesota agree with you that there are five subspecies of wolf in N. America. "There are no timber wolves in Minnesota." http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...l/14078634.htm

Good day!
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Old 03-13-2006, 02:08 PM
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boreal, are you saying that as a governemt fellow you don't think the Wolf should be controlled? Just let them run amuck like they are doing right now outwest.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2006, 02:10 PM
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A new report from 'The Hunting Report'
Quote:
If you were skeptical about that "tame-wolf" report we described in our e-mail bulletin last Friday, then you'll want to see what well-known hunter and booking agent Jack Atcheson, Jr., has to say in a report he just e-mailed to us. Atcheson describes how he and two other hunters were stalked by a wolf this past January during an elk hunt in the Madison Valley of southwest Montana.

"The wolf was directly focused on us three hunters," Atcheson says after describing how the lone animal advanced on them in an aggressive manner to within 47 yards. "It looked like a housecat sneaking up on a robin," he says. The animal only stopped when it heard one of the hunters chamber a round into his bolt-action rifle. Atcheson says the wolf sat down at that point and yawned at them while it reconsidered its attack. It's notable that this wolf had keyed on the hunters even though there were still remains nearby of a calf elk recently killed by wolves.

Atcheson says the encounter forced them to modify their hunt somewhat. He also describes several recent encounters that residents in the Madison Valley area have experienced in which wolves attacked livestock and dogs, even within close proximity to one rancher's toddler.

You can read Atcheson's first-hand report for yourself and see photographs of the advancing wolf by clicking on the link below. Enjoy. And take heed! - Barbara Crown.


(Wolf Stalks Hunters - A First-hand Report http://www.huntingreport.com/other_h...?articleid=121 )
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Old 03-13-2006, 02:41 PM
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Alyeska, super post! With this information comming in, I HOPE people are paying attention to what is going on. Very close the same thing happend to Tim Sundles over in Salmon Idaho. If he hadn't shot the big male was going to take his Wife. The trouble is, how much more trouble are we going to have by the time the Feds finish studying it to death?
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tybo
boreal, are you saying that as a governemt fellow you don't think the Wolf should be controlled? Just let them run amuck like they are doing right now outwest.
I said no such thing and I don't know why you would assume that, except that many assume that anyone who likes wolves wants them to "run" amok. I get trashed on every hunting and shooting forum for my views. As soon as I say that I like wolves, I'm immediately branded as a gay enviro who lives in a high-rise and has no experience with wolves. I get "shouted off" the forums by anti-wolfers, using foul language, misrepresentations, and bald-faced lies. It is amazing to me, and dissapoints me greatly, knowing that my fellow hunters don't long for wilderness values that include large predators. However, I accept that I'm in the minority of hunters.
I don't understand why folks are surprised to learn that an intelligent large predator is a dangerous animal, especially if starving or not afraid of you. Any wildlife biologist/ecologist worth his education will tell you of that fact. Wolves are certainly not the most dangerous wildlife (whitetail deer have killed way more people than wolves). Yet, they are capable and much of their behavior is learned. They are opportunistic, and could see us and our domestic animals as weak enough to kill and eat. But hey, I don't hear many folks who want to get rid of bears, cougar, lions, tigers, or cape buffalo. Some even delight in hunting dangerous game in dangerous places. Imagine that!
I want to hunt wolves. I want a tag. Unfortunately, I feel that when Minnesota gets full management of wolves, it won't make much difference and we won't be hunting them because the majority of Minnesotans won't allow it. I've had to go to Canada (against my basic instinct) to hunt wolves. But it was worth it. I hope that western states will have the ability to allow a hunting season. They make great sport. If you've never called in a wolf, you probably don't know what I mean. I call them in often while coyote hunting. When they figure out that they've been duped, they seem almost embarrased.
I actually feel that the "Wyoming plan" is the way to go. Let the wolves live in places like Yellowstone and maybe a few other wild places. Shoot them all on private land if they're not wanted. But of course, I'm just a raisin gobblin' greenie.
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:18 PM
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At this juncture, I wish to point out we board members respect the opinions of others and refrain from being discourteous to one another.

Boreal is certainly entitled to his opinion. Debate on an issue such as this is healthy and informative. Let's keep it that way and not inflame the issue.

Thanks to all for understanding. May the debate continue!
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:59 PM
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First off, I want to say I am sorry if I come out sounding like I was putting Boreal down. I am not, and I am sorry.

Boreal! I do agree with you that Wyoming has the right idea on handling the problem.

I also want to say, I don't dislike the Wolf, I think they are a majestic animal. But not to the point of getting rid of all wild game to keep one.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:28 PM
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alyeska,
Interesting report, and it's probably fortunate that the hunters had indicators from the horses that something was amiss. I've been out hunting and hiking alone quite frequently, as I'm sure many of us do, and I know that I don't look behind me as often as I would need to, to probably save my skin in a situation like that.

boreal,
As a frame of reference, I don't hate wolves, and I don't love wolves. If you are sincere in your statement that you've hunted wolves, and want to hunt wolves in the US, I hope you can appreciate that most hunters want to continue hunting elk the way they have for years, in the places that they have for years, without significantly reduced tag numbers (or no tags at all). That's what has happened in our Clearwater region (significantly reduced elk numbers and tags), and is now happening farther south in the Salmon region, which covers a vast area of Idaho, by the way. YOU want to hunt wolves, but maybe most of the rest of us would rather hunt elk. You might claim we can do both, but it's not a one-for-one deal here.

Idaho already had wolves before the reintroductions, native wolves I might add. Do you accept that? If so, given the supposition that you're the wolf proponent that you claim to be, isn't it a travesty that the non-native Canadian wolves very likely drove out or killed our native wolves?

My observations of these discussions indicate you are overly emotionally committed to the wolf issue, with your statements of "go wolves", and "I win", and being that emotionally committed tends to hinder sound judgement, and causes a person to disregard any evidence.

I don't have too much concern that I'm going to be wolf scat someday, but I also don't want to be possibly subjected to an overzealous legal system and accompanying expenses defending myself if I had to someday shoot a wolf in defense of life. That's where we're at now, even if such a shooting was judged "justifiable". I know you scoff at the "SSS", but that's what this situation produced.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:37 PM
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Shawn, I shore whished I had your abilility to get a point accrossed.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:51 PM
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Good to hear from your standpoint Boreal... I do whole heartedly agree with you...

For those that don't know, Wyoming intends to list the wolves as a predator/varmint immediatedly after federal delisting. Montana supports the issue of a tag for packs of 15 or greater, or a population of 75 or more total wolves, there are more than double that amount of wolves currently.
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