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  #21  
Old 12-27-2003, 06:05 AM
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Question Lightfield = LIGHTWEIGHT SLUGS?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrisseyMSGUSA
Excuse my ignorance... What is the difference between this and say the lightfield commander 3" impact discarding?...
Looks to me like the LIGHTFIELD is a LIGHTWEIGHT SLUG! The TERMINATOR SLUG is a full (12) bore (.73cal) - 3/4" long, solid lead slug that weighs 745gr or about 1-3/4oz! It's hard cast & chilled from a hard lead bullet alloy and is one seriously BAD SLUG! It's got a crimp groove at the top if you wanta' load it in brass shells, and a lube groove midway down the rest of the length just like a big ol' cast lead bullet!
FULLY RIFLED BARRELS, REMEMBER?

Looks like the lightfield slugs are only full bore lead for about a 1/4" driving band at the top of the slug - soft cast lead too?

Here's your "Lightfield" slug for comparison:

http://www.lightfieldslugs.com/lightfield/

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  #22  
Old 12-27-2003, 12:57 PM
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I am trying to attach a scan of the Terminator. Better pictures are on the way.
George did an excellent job covering the Terminator.
Best Regards, James
Attached Thumbnails
12 gauge Dixie Terminator Slug/Bullet-terminator2.jpg  
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Last edited by James Gates; 12-27-2003 at 01:01 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2003, 12:44 PM
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How about this one in production from our friends across the sea?
Super Magnum 12 / 3” (Gold)
Weight: 1 3/8 oz.
Barrel: rifled only
Range: 100 + yards
Game: large / dangerous



Original BRENNEKE Slug “Gold” with patented plastic wad
superb accuracy: less then 3” (5 rounds) at 100 yards
flat trajectory
very powerful
special coating to reduce lead fouling in barrel
superb knockdown power
broad ribs for optimum guidance in the barrel

Distance
(yards) Velocity
(feet/sec.) Energy
(ft. lbs.) Bullet path
(inch)
Muzzle 1502 3014 - 2.0
25 1295 2241 + 0.4
50 1136 1724 + 1.6
75 1030 1418 + 1.0
100 955 1219 - 1.5
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2003, 02:21 PM
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"Whatever Floats Your Boat!".....I'm not going to put Brenneke slugs down as I have used them for years overseas in smoothbore guns. But.........I still think they are a compromise. Why would a modern slug for a rifled barrel still retain the rifling grooves of the original smoothbore Foster slug? The Brenneke is still soft lead and will not penetrate as well as a hard lead projectile. No matter what the advertising says.....is it really a dangerous game slug? Why did they not make the lead part full bore size and hard? Why the plastic sabot?
These questions must be answered by the shooter when their life might be one the line.
The Brits, who have a great deal of input on dangerous game, designed the large bullet for their Paradox Guns. The Terminator Slug is just a modern form of the bullet. I think I will go with the Paradox design.
Best Regards, James
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2003, 03:14 PM
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..

ah, now it starts to make some sense. i was not thinking of the added mass and weight of the missing lands and grooves of the slug. makes sense, also there is smething to be saig for the metalurgy piece. i learn something new every day above ground. thanks
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2004, 03:07 PM
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Friends All......Here's another picture of the Terminator next to typical .432" bullet.
Best Regards, James
Attached Thumbnails
12 gauge Dixie Terminator Slug/Bullet-slugxxxx.jpg  
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2004, 03:30 PM
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Great Googly-Woogly!!!

Can't wait to shoot a pig with one of those!
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2004, 01:45 PM
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There was a typo error in the picture I posted of the Terminator! The diameter should have been .729" instead of .739"..........Sorry, but at my age the brain starts to dry up!
Best Regards, James
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  #29  
Old 02-20-2004, 04:32 PM
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Mr. Gates -

I have never seen a 12ga slug loaded in a brass shell.

Does it look like a 44 magnum on steroids?

And... Will you offer these for sale? At any price?

Thanks,

Dave
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  #30  
Old 02-20-2004, 08:14 PM
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Sign me up !!! I want some *drool*

Cats beware...lmao
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  #31  
Old 02-20-2004, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gates
There was a typo error in the picture I posted of the Terminator! The diameter should have been .729" instead of .739"..........Sorry, but at my age the brain starts to dry up!
Best Regards, James
James, I sure would like to try some of those 12 gauge slugs of yours out on my next Safari. How close are you to marketing them for the public?
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  #32  
Old 02-21-2004, 09:15 AM
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First Of All......Let me thank all of you for your support on the Dixie Terminator project! I just answered a post on Bear Defense guns you might like to read. The project is moving along.......Fed License, zoning, pressure and velocity curves, tests on lubes for a wide range of temps, testing bhn hardness for proper penetration, accuracy based on the twist of todays rifled barrels vs. length of the slug, proper primer for a wide range of temps, and all of the other tests to be sure this slug works and is not just another "Gimmick" compromise products we are flooded with!
The Terminator is just a updated Paradox Slug, that can also be used on thin skin game, but its true purpose is for dangerous game!
Best Regards, James
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  #33  
Old 02-21-2004, 09:29 AM
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Just outa curiousity, how would that thing shoot from my 18.5" , cyl bore barrel on my Mossberg 500 ?

Just for fun, I've shot 1oz Sabot Slugs and some rifles slugs, its just not greatly accurate.
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2004, 09:47 AM
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Would that slug be safe in a smooth bore barrel with a rifled choke tube. That would be the closest modern equivalent to the paradox type guns. You all obviously never hunt in slug only states. Most foster type slugs weigh between 1-1 1/2 oz. and clock 1200-1400 fps muzzle velocity. Yes they do kick. I dare you to shoot 50 rds of 3" lightfields out your favorite pump gun-recoil is equivalent to a .375 H&H. I like your design for two reasons, the accurracy and the harder construction. Unfortunately you can't hunt big game in NY with brass shot gun shells. But it should be easily loaded in paper hulls and roll crimped. THis would satisfy the DEC. I used to cast 12 slugs andload them myself years ago. never used a top wad. The edge of the roll crimp against the top of the slug seemed to hold them in place very well. Still have the lyman mold I used, it is a smooth slug without the rifling of a factory foster slug.
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  #35  
Old 02-21-2004, 11:32 AM
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First of all.....The Terminator is a solid base slug for rifled barrels and would not work well in smoothbores.. I have a mold on order now that will be the basic Terminator design, except hollow base for smoothbore Cylinder barrels. It will be called IXL.
Second......I have hunted in shotgun only states and am well aware of the law. The Terminator is designed for a plastic hull with a rolled crimp, however I designed a crimp groove in it for those that desire to put it in a brass shotshell (where legal in the States and from requests from South Africa)
The twist in the original Paradox Gun was very slow and designed to give some spin to a slug that was "squared", meaning that its length was equal to its diameter. It appears the twist in the rifled choke tubes is rather fast for the longer sabot loads.....I just don't know how the Terminator would react, although it is also "squared" (.729" vs .745" length)
Let me say this again.....the Terminator was designed for a dangerous game slug...pure and simple! Yes, there is recoil anytime you push 1 3/4 oz of lead, either shot or slug, out of a shotgun. I never designed it for a target load, but for serious situations.
John Anderson and friends in Illinois, using Savage bolt guns with rifled barrels, did kill quite a few large deer this season. Best Regards, James
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  #36  
Old 02-21-2004, 03:43 PM
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Mr. Gates,

So, is this going to be suitable for dangerous game?

Just kidding.

I believe I have read everything you have ever posted concerning this slug, and you have stressed that from the beginning. You have also stressed that the Terminator slug is only suited for rifled barrels. And you have stressed that it will be pretty potent.

I, for one, would like to shake your hand for striving for perfection on the design phase of your loads. I don't know of anyone who has gone so far for something that is going to be produced commercially.

(insert hand-shake emoticon here)

I would also like to point out that there are undoubtedly MANY of us who will end up buying your Terminator slugs, and end up shooting buckets of water or paper targets with them.

I live in Illinois. The most dangerous critter I've ever seen is the smelly skunk that lived under my porch for a month. Deer can be taken with anything off the shelf, and certainly don't need anything like your bunker busters.

I doubt I will be the only one who will end up buying a rifled bore shotgun BECAUSE of your ammo. I don't even own a shotgun right now, but I looked at several today because I know your Terminators will eventually become available.

I bought a S&W 500 a couple of months ago. I will probably never hunt with it. Even at $2.50 per shot for commerical ammo, it is a hoot to shoot. A new shotgun will cost less, and your ammo will be as much fun to use.

I hope you are prepared for the popularity of your cartridge. I have a feeling you won't be capable of keeping up with orders for a long time.

I asked about you loading all-brass shells simply because I think it would add an extra element to the potential awesomeness of this cartridge. It basically makes one think of their gun as a high power rifle, rather than a shotgun. By the time you have a rifled slug barrel, and a scope.... why not shoot brass cases? (I'm looking for a bolt action gun to boot)

I bet that if you invested in the equipment necessary to load and crimp solid brass cases, you could charge double for the shells (or tripple, etc) and people will buy them. If you build it, they will come.

Finally, again, I would like to praise your efforts to perfect things before you release them to the public. I wish everyone was as anal in their work as you.

Dave
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2004, 07:07 PM
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I would LOVE to have just a couple loaded in a brass shell.

Ya see, my cousin and I have started collecting bullets, of all shapes and sizes, and we have gotten off to a good start. When we get a good number more, we're going to start moutning them on boards and labeling them.

So you let me know if it would be possible to buy two of your slugs in brass shells, even without powder or primers would be fine. Will make a SWEET addition to the collection !
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2004, 09:02 PM
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Why on earth can't you use brass shotshells for hunting in NY? Is that one of those rules that just defies explanation?
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  #39  
Old 02-22-2004, 07:04 AM
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Thank You all for your kind remarks!
Now for brass hulls.......The major problem with loading Terminator in a brass hull is the thinness of the hull. The brass hulls I have run .010" to .015" wall thickness. This means that a loaded shell's diameter at the mouth, with a .729" slug/bullet, would be around .750". This is undersize for the standard 12 chamber. The Fiocchi 3" hull we are using runs .025" wall thickness. The loaded round, rolled crimp, runs at .780"
There would be no problems with the ballistics with the slug loaded in a brass case. The same overpowder wad (BP's X12X that works for standard and overbored barrels .740"), the same pure cork wads, etc......but is would mean that the brass hull would have to be resized down for about .500". The Terminator is .250" from the crimp groove forward to the meplat......loaded in a 2 3/4" brass case one would have a 3" load. All in All, it would be impressive! I will just have to wait and see what the markets shows.
Best Regards, James
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Last edited by James Gates; 02-22-2004 at 07:06 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-22-2004, 04:51 PM
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terminator in brass hulls

My Gates, in most shotgun only states, metallic cased shotgun ammo in prohibited. I know it sounds stupid, but NJ is one of those states. I don't know what kind of primer your brass hulls are using, but they can offer erratic ignition with smokless powder. I had some that would not headspace properly in a 3 inch chamber, due to the thin wall. I also had hang fires, and alot of unburnt powder. On most of the brass hulls, The primer sits above the bottom of the powder charge, and fails to ignite it. Double base powders are harder to light in those hulls. Tom Armbrust recommended a priming charge, but iI just use plastic hulls. They are a whole lot cheaper, and easier to keep track of in bright colors. How much is Graf getting for 12 gauge brass hulls? Greg
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