Anne, you could go a long way toward putting Tom Clancy out of work! Not intended as an insult - whether these theories are true or not, they're ****ed interesting for sure. I'd read the books!

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

Just found an article on what gun control legislation might look like. Don't wrinkle up your nose before reading just because it's from NPR. It's one of the most reasonable articles I've read yet.

What Gun Control Could Look Like : NPR

Mods, if this is considered political and/or inappropriate, my apologies. Not trying to stir anything up.

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

That is a good article. I found one of the comments interesting. The US is 1st in the world in firearms per capita and 28th in firearms deaths per capita. The link is in the comments section.

The debate is going to be interesting. I have been quite offended by the media the last couple of days suggesting those that support the 2nd Amendment are somehow enabling this type of tragic incident. Regardless of their position I would guess the majority people on this board are models for owning firearms responsibly and would gladly sacrifice themselves to save children from this type of massacre. My stomach gets sick thinking of what happened last Friday.

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"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." U. S. Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

Non taken.

I like to inject a little info from out of left field from time to time... it's a bit of a hobby of mine.

What it all means - well, that's admittedly hard to interpret exactly at this point in time.

I don't claim to have all the answers, - just some of the "info" that's deliberately being denied to us for whatever reason by our so called 'free press".

What it all means is for others to decide.

Cheers!

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Madness takes its toll, please have exact change handy.

I think you and I are on the same page here. Parents. family, being connected to real live people instead of machines and learning empathy for one another. Because we have all gone way too bloody far with fiercely protecting"MINE" instead of "All of Us".

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Be popular? Heck, I have enough friends.
and...
"That way lies madness".

Arming teachers is what I'd consider a kneejerk reaction , to a most complicated problem ! 99% of teachers don't have the stones to take on that job anyways ! Evil has to be met with lethal force , I mean just start busting caps till the threat is removed , no attempt to subdue or apprehend should even be considered ! Who best to provide this service ? How about some unemployed Vets ? They would require minimal training , and since they're already on the public payroll , the taxpayers would just pay them out of a different fund . Allowing only outlaws to have guns certainly isn't the answer ! Should it be left up to the states to solve the problems ? If the feds do it , it will be FUBAR from the get go , we know what swell administrators they are . I think an armed guard in every school is actually doable , be they part of some police agency or what , is just one of the details that would need to be hammered out . I think our children and gradnchildren are worth the investment , after all we got them into this , we built this society , that is no longer safe for them ! I just wish that one of these assholes would run into someone that is ready to meet their threat ! We know they aren't smart , must be just dumb luck .

I don't disagree with you Anne, but any possible 'fix' of this sort is at least a generation away. And the one or two generations that had deficiencies in [many of, not all of] their raising are still out there.

If public or some private schools cannot be kept safe, there will be a shift of students to private schools that do take security seriously. And yes, costs will rise, for everyone, possibly to an intolerable level.

Gun control has been proven to not only not work, but make things worse. Yet some politicians cling to it no matter what. Ideally, non-thinkers get voted out, but that's optimistic when many voters are non-thinkers.

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NRA Endowment Member
SCI Member

Really? This is a number you researched? Or is this just your personal opinion of teachers?

It's time to tone it down, Anne.

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Madness takes its toll, please have exact change handy.

OK will do!

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Madness takes its toll, please have exact change handy.

Not to take anyone's side, but you have to admit, people majoring in criminal law with full intentions of being police chief don't usually take elementary education as a minor (or vice versa). I don't think he meant 99% as a serious number. A bit of hyperbole never killt no one.

I don't think it's a good idea for one reason: if I (at a young romantically impressionable age) had had some my teachers armed with handguns, I wouldn't have slept so much in class!

On the other hand, I would have been so distracted, I wouldn't have learned anything either.

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

Yes, let's allow the States to decide, I agree. Some States have much more capable problem-solving citizens than others. Citizens can decide where they want to live, in the environment they create.

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NRA Endowment Member
SCI Member

We just gotta get right with God. We can't make folks raise their kids. We can't make folks care. All we can do is trust Him and do right by our families. Cause we all see people every day and wonder how they have survived as long as they have being ate up with the dumb ---.

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God Bless,

EW

That is a proven fact. If people were paying attention to the vast differences in crime from state to state, we would not even be discussing this as a gun control problem. At least not a "lack of gun control" problem. Too much gun control, maybe. A people issue, definately.

Just one man's thoughts. Over 50.
I look at all this and say, what is different now, than when I was a kid? Guns have always been around. This didn't happen that I can re-call.
I can then point to some huge differences for a kid turning 18 now, as opposed to then.
I am not saying any, or all of these are the reasons, but this is here now, and it wasn't then.
Exposure to violence on film, TV, games is one. There are films today rated R that would not have gotten let into a theater back then in any rating. Games, videos, etc, follow the same thought for me. How graphic bloody entertainment became entertaining I cannot say why.
#2 is parents that fell into that whole parenting BS of the 80's and 90's that you need to be your kids "friends", don't stifle their growth, don't hold them accountable for the little things, it's no big deal, etc. Stick up for your kid no matter what, it cannot be their fault.
#3. Schools that have lost control of the students due to #2.
#4. The minimizing and be-littling of religion in our country, goverment, and schools. For the most part if someone believes in a higher power, there is something more to this world than just yourself, and it can make folks more compassionate.
#5. The "electronic age"/ These kids don't even know the art of conversation. Texting and emailing for most of yer thoughts is different. I saw 2 young boys walking down my street the other day and you know what struck me? They didn't have anything in their hands and they were actually talking to one another. When that surprises me I know that is a change.

I am sure that there are more things different for an 18 yr old today, than 1980, but these are the ones that jump out at me. Put them all together and I feel certain that they could be contributing to these problems.

The short term fix for the school security is really not that difficult. It just takes $$.
I have worked in many different work place with security tight enough that a person with a gun isn't gonna get far at all without being met with force, if they breach at all. You know why those places, private and goverment, had such security in place? Because of the high value they placed on the info, product, processes and materials inside.
What could be more valuable than our chidren? Treat them the same as the above and at least we can prevent, minimize, this kind of eppisode. For the rest of us out in the world and over 18, we are on our own, but the kids need looking after. I'll take my chances at the mall, the movies etc, but we need to secure the schools.
beagle

...very well said sir...

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Chris in NH.

"some days, I wish my dogs could talk"

We as human beings are trying to see things through the eyes of a vicious animal. As much as we try, we'll never understand. I've listened as professional people with all sorts of credentials explain their theories about these poor, sick individuals, and frankly, I don't buy it. They still try to see it in a human way and it just ain't human. I have lost family members myself in the past and my heart hurts when I hear of these horrific acts. It seems every generation is less human than the last. A cure? I don't know either.

I was just saying the same in a conversation on HuffPo. I live in a low crime city yet every gov't office and parking building has multiple guards. These are mostly low level bureaucratic offices. I was talking with a former teacher who was shocked, just shocked at what it would mean if we had armed teachers watching over our innocent children. It would mean that we value our children as much as we do the DMV worker.

I find it appalling that anyone would attack these children (hard to comprehend) but once that is accepted, at least allowing teachers to CCW is a no brainer.

I think everyone does.

10 Afghan children killed in bomb explosion in eastern province - Xinhua | English.news.cn

But no one gives a flying crap about these kids apparently!

Collateral Murder

And it would seem no one in the world cares about these victims & children killed & injured in our names.

168 children killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since start of campaign - Telegraph

Why do the lives of 20 odd US kids murdered / massacred, matter more than the lives of 168 Pakistani Kids also massacred / murdered?

Let me then pose this question if I may.

IF (given all the apparent anomalies already posted suggesting that this is a well orchestrated attack by a foreign intelligence agency), say the Pakistani ISI carried out this attack, might they not have done so in order to make the point that THEY value the lives of innocent Pakistani kids JUST as much as We value the lives of our own kids?

Is that why there's a huge coverup? Our own indiscriminate killing of kids all over the globe, has back fired as a military and foreign policy objective & as a result got 20 of our own kids killed as a result?

It's a legitimate question I believe.

It's also one no one wants addressed publicly.

That's understandable, but ignoring it won't make the facts go away.

Sorry if I over stepped the mark, BUT the deaths of kids (ANY kids) upsets me personally - to the point I find it hard to bite my tongue at times. Bye all means delete my post mods if i have overstepped the mark again. My only excuse is that the souls of ALL of these kids keeps calling out to me for justice and I see no one advocating publicly on their behalf. If that makes me a bad person per se, then I make no apology for that!

- I don't believe the originator of that quote would have differentiated about the nationality of the kids in question - I'm pretty sure he meant ALL of them!.

Cheers!

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Madness takes its toll, please have exact change handy.

I agree. Deaths of children all over the world are equally tragic, yet ignored by our media since it does not suit their purposes.

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MikeG