A "no cost idea for school security" - Page 3

nvshooter · #41 12-26-2012, 04:22 PM

In retail sales, there are security cameras. These cameras may or may not be in the store all the time. I was forced to resign in 1991 because my cashier pilfered the register and I got the blame, being his manager. There was no camera in place that day to catch him stealing-- it moved around from store to store. We can put returning soldiers in place at the schools. One on-duty today, but somewhere else tomorrow. He'd come and go in an unmarked car-- preferably his own. We don't want him arriving in a black, four-door, Ford Crown Victoria with blackwall tires. Just screams "COP!!" We need stealth, but we also need to let potential thugs know there's a sworn peace officer (swear the soldiers) on duty and he will put a slug in your assets in you try something stupid. I think we can scrounge up the men for this, and keep the thugs guessing...

Another idea: Put a car with a simple decal on it that basically says "Lawman here!" in the parking lot. A thug, who's 98% coward anyway, will not encroach. Just the seeming presence of the law makes these filth scamper. How many of us have slowed down when we see the empty patrol car parked on the street, or just in the bushes? See, a "presence" works...

Rocket surgeon · #42 12-26-2012, 04:24 PM

Elementary school attacks have been rare. There is some chance of a copy-cat attacker, but as the months go by the chance of another attack becomes slight. Microscopic. The current discussions are reactionary. I think the best action tomorrow is to get a cop in the schools. We've already got them in middle- and high-schools around here.

Longer term, self-defense for the school employees is the way to go.

Realize that once schools are secure enough to deter a crazy, the crazies don't disappear. They will attack at weaker points. Like school buses.

Self-defense for all is the best long-term solution.

Joe

IraRat · #43 12-26-2012, 07:03 PM

The answer to the Newton massacre is what happened in upstate NY, where the firemen were killed after a convicted killer got out of prison and still had weapons:

We have to know, at all times, who owns what weapons.

More control. Not LESS!!!

BAGTIC · #44 12-26-2012, 08:30 PM

Being ex-military or ex-police is not sufficient qualification. Plenty of those are either unskilled or emotionally unsuited to the job. Furthermore they will stick out like a sore thumb. WE need someone who will blend in and that will be taechers, staff, custodians, etc. Do a thorough background check iincluding psychological appraisal and then teach them.

Most will NEVER have reason to draw a gun. What is important is that they don't panic or over react. The deterrence comes from the mere knowledge that someone inside the school is armed and willing to use their weapon. WE can NEVER prevent all acts of violence anymore that we can stop all cases of molestation. WE can only hope to reduce it.

If an intruder comes to a locked door to a ro0m with students inside and knows that the teacher, or janitor, of file clerk, etc. might be waiting on the other side of the door they will at least hesitate and probably pass it by. That is the principle behind sky marshals, not to prevail in a gunfight but to deter it in the first place.

BAGTIC · #45 12-26-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IraRat

The answer to the Newton massacre is what happened in upstate NY, where the firemen were killed after a convicted killer got out of prison and still had weapons:

We have to know, at all times, who owns what weapons.

More control. Not LESS!!!

You will NEVER know who has guns any more than you know who the pedophiles, drug addicts and pushers, rapists, etc. are until AFTER the event when it is too late. That is why we have cops, to fill out the paperwork.

Anne Shoots · #46 12-26-2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

You will NEVER know who has guns any more than you know who the pedophiles, drug addicts and pushers, rapists, etc. are until AFTER the event when it is too late.

If You Are On This List You May Be In Grave Danger

Quote:

If You Are On This List You May Be In Grave Danger
Mac Slavo
December 26th, 2012

Over the weekend a mainstream media web site on the east coast published, presumably in the interest of public safety, a » Legal Gun Owners in New York Outed Like Sex Offenders Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! complete list of individuals and businesses that are licensed to carry or own handguns.

Much to the amusement of those who would confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens, the list, complete with an interactive map, essentially allows those who are preparing to commit such crimes as burglary, robbery or worse to locate specific addresses where residents are armed.

The problem, of course, is that in their haste to publicly out and embarrass legal gun owners, The Journal News actually did exactly the opposite of the intended purpose of their exclusive breaking report.

You see, now when a criminal gang decides to target a particular home they can utilize the new map to zoom in on specific homes in a neighborhood to determine if they will be faced with any sort of danger should they choose to attack a particular target.

Put yourself into the criminal mind and consider what you might do should you be compelled to rob a home or business at gunpoint. With that new map available to you, would you be headed to the residence where there is a strong likelihood that someone is armed, or would you skip over that particular house and head to where you know there would be little, if any, resistance?

It’s the epitome of irony.

When gun-grabbers and their ilk laugh about the new interactive map publicly exposing lawful gun owners, what they have actually done is outed those citizens who have no means of defending themselves.

It’s pretty safe to say that if one were to have a sign placed in front of their home, Americans would overwhelmingly prefer to have this one:

As opposed to being the neighbor in this photo:

In the near future criminals are going to realize the internet is a powerful tool for determining the feasibility of striking certain targets. It’s only a matter of time before flash mobs begin to organize, not against gas stations or pharmacies, but private citizens and residences. Should such a thing happen, and fifty people kick in your door and intend to have their way with your family and property, those millions of assault rifles that have been flying off the shelves around the country are going to come in real handy.

While we cherish our privacy and agree that the outing of gun owners has gone beyond responsible journalism, if their is going to be a list, we’d rather be on the one that has our residence listed as heavily armed as opposed to the alternative.

You may be one of those proud non-gun owners who didn’t make the east coast list.

And if you are, you should be terrified, because you may very well be in grave danger.

I make no comment other than I THINK this is 2A rights related?.

Cheers!

jbee · #47 12-27-2012, 01:24 AM

> We have to know, at all times, who owns what weapons.

We can't keep out or track 20+ million illegals and Obama's own aunt and uncle someone how managed to be here illegally and on public assistance, one even got caught DUI. When all the illegals are gone, starting with Obama's aunt and uncle, then I might consider giving that thought a serious response.

I do not think anyone much cared what and how many guns George Washington owned, the only time the USA based governments have became concerned with gun ownership is when they thought slaves might own them. So, history repeats itself as we are now the slaves of government complete with a breathing tax. imho of course.

Rocket surgeon · #48 12-27-2012, 03:25 AM

Anyone who is not locked up should be presumed to have a gun.

Joe

harkknight · #49 12-27-2012, 11:53 AM

Another idea: Put a car with a simple decal on it that basically says "Lawman here!" in the parking lot. A thug, who's 98% coward anyway, will not encroach. Just the seeming presence of the law makes these filth scamper. How many of us have slowed down when we see the empty patrol car parked on the street, or just in the bushes? See, a "presence" works...[/QUOTE]

Very good idea NVShooter!

Another spin to this, along with having armed personnel present, is to simply place huge official looking vinyl stickers on the doors and all the windows in the building stating that "This Property of the Federal Government Is Heavilly Protected by Armed Personnel".

I know several families that live in high crime areas of their city that have posted official looking high quality vinyl stickers on all of their exterior doors and windows outside their homes that simply read
"Warning! This Residence Protected by Electronic Security System".
While houses all around them are getting burglarized not one of these houses have been burglarized.
The ironic thing is.......none of them actually do have alarm systems.
There is tremendous power in suggestion!!!!!
And the cost....only a few bucks.

kyew · #50 12-27-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne Shoots

If You Are On This List You May Be In Grave Danger

I make no comment other than I THINK this is 2A rights related?.

Cheers!

That sword has two edges. While it does inform the criminals of who is armed and who may not be armed, it also informs them of who has guns if that's what they're looking to steal. A thief doesn't want to enter an occupied home and rob the place - they scope it out and wait until they're pretty sure there's no one home. With the map above, half their job is done for them. They don't have to guess where they can find guns to steal (which are a lucrative item on the street), they only have to plan and wait for the place to be empty.

The people who made that map didn't do anyone at all any favors.

DOK · #51 12-27-2012, 04:37 PM

kyew, well said

Dan

Shawn Crea · #52 12-27-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IraRat

The answer to the Newton massacre is what happened in upstate NY, where the firemen were killed after a convicted killer got out of prison and still had weapons:

We have to know, at all times, who owns what weapons.

More control. Not LESS!!!

So, IraRat, knowing where all guns are supposed to be, would have somehow prevented this convicted killer from obtaining the gun he used for his heinous deeds? How? Supposedly, he was prohibited from having gun possession, and a list of legal gun owners, would have done...what?

Anne Shoots · #53 12-27-2012, 07:06 PM

The idea of school teachers concealed carrying - has spread around the world.

This from our local rag today.

US teachers bear arms to protect students | Perth Now

Quote:

US teachers bear arms to protect students

From: AAP
December 28, 2012 11:12AM

SEVERAL US states are considering allowing school teachers to carry weapons and educators, determined not to allow a repeat of the Newtown massacre, are flocking to training sessions.

As gun control advocates try to outlaw military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, gun enthusiasts, backed by the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA), are taking a very different approach.

The gun lobby argues that there is no way to stop crazy or evil people doing bad things and so the only sure-fire way to prevent mass shootings like the one at Sandy Hook primary is to take down the shooter.

In a rare press conference one week after 20-year-old Adam Lanza shot dead 20 six and seven-year-olds and six adults with a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle, the NRA called for armed guards in every school in the country.

But in Utah, one of the handful of American states that currently allows people to carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools, many teachers are unwilling to wait and see which political argument wins out.

In response to Newtown, the Utah Shooting Sports Council (USSC) waived its fee on Thursday for educators wanting to participate in training sessions to gain permits to carry concealed weapons.

More than half of the roughly 400 education professionals that showed an interest had to be turned away because there wasn't enough room on the course.

"We had about 400 that wanted to do it and we only had seating for about 180," USSC board member Bill Scott said.

The surge in interest was seen by organisers as a direct response to the shooting in Newtown, with teachers showing a heightened awareness that people are responsible for their own safety and wanted their own permits.

"A lot of these people may have shot all their lives and some of them may have never touched a gun," Scott said.

"We're not advocating that all teachers should be armed. We're just saying that those that choose to be armed, that want to get the training, they have the right to do that in Utah, we'd like to facilitate that."

While teachers train themselves to try to stop the next Lanza, state officials like Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne are busily crafting legislation to make sure they can legally do so.

"The proposal is that any school that wishes to do so may designate the principal or another designee to receive training in the use of firearms and how to handle emergencies such as that which occurred in Newtown," he said.

Ideally there would be an armed police officer in every school, but due to budget considerations this may not be possible, so training a designated teacher to handle firearms was "the next best solution," Horne said.

Pro-gun politicians in Florida, Minnesota, Oregon, South Dakota and Tennessee have also vowed to propose legislation in the coming months that would allow for armed teachers in schools.

"Hopefully, these monsters, these animals that are doing this stuff will stay away from the schools," said Scott.

"Our view also is that it's not just that you would actively engage the shooter, just the fact that the bad guys know that teachers are armed in Utah is a huge deterrent.

"They tend to pick targets where they know there will be lots of innocent victims and they're not going to encounter any resistance."

As teachers stripped semi-automatic pistols on tables at the USSC gathering, Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein was putting the final touches to a bill that would ban weapons like the one Lanza used in Newtown.

Gun rights advocates, led by the NRA, are stringently against such measures.

"The thing about them being assault weapons, it's a misnomer," said Scott.

"These weapons are no different than a standard sporting weapon. We don't support any bans on those because true military weapons are already banned in the United States."

I might run this idea past my sister - who's a school teacher for her thoughts (I'd consider her anti gun) - but we don't seem to have had any school massacres from recent memory at least, so maybe teachers here, don't perceive it as a genuine threat, due to the fact we have pretty much been disarmed already!.

The old "it could never happen here" rationale!

Cheers!

Shawn Crea · #54 12-27-2012, 07:23 PM

It is perfect, IMO, that a blog posted addresses of reporters that posted addresses of gun owners.

Anne Shoots · #55 12-27-2012, 09:18 PM

Well, I did ask my sis, a school teach of 35 years experience - her thoughts about arming teachers in Oz to avoid another school massacre like the one in Sandy Hook, from occurring here in Oz.

Make of it what you will.

Quote:

Keep our tough gun laws, and arm every US citizen with an arsenal of automatic weapons, confine them within their border and wait a few months. Then, after they have exterminated themselves, send the world's refugees in to take up the empty houses and land. All the world's problems solved in one simple action.

You don't solve ridiculous gun laws by arming more people, you just shoot the silly buggers who want the right to bear arms.

And we wonder why we have problems with our kids!

Cheers

fred243 · #56 12-30-2012, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IraRat

The answer to the Newton massacre is what happened in upstate NY, where the firemen were killed after a convicted killer got out of prison and still had weapons:

We have to know, at all times, who owns what weapons.

More control. Not LESS!!!

The guns he used were bought legally by the person who bought them who was not a convicted felon !! They were then given to him illegally, how do you stop/control that ? You can't !! The whole thing is sad and I hope the girl that did it gets her fair share of prison time to say the least. There's no way it's the first and sadly it won't be the last time it will happen.

MikeG · #57 12-30-2012, 07:04 AM

Right. Straw purchase. It goes to show the folly of thinking that more rules / regulations will fix the issue.

I'll say it again, for those who are delusional enough to think that gun control will stop violent behavior: Mexico.

Shawn Crea · #58 12-30-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Crea

So, IraRat, knowing where all guns are supposed to be, would have somehow prevented this convicted killer from obtaining the gun he used for his heinous deeds? How? Supposedly, he was prohibited from having gun possession, and a list of legal gun owners, would have done...what?

Any answer IraRat? Come back to us with your answer, please.

rhino57 · #59 12-30-2012, 05:17 PM

"This Property of the Federal Government Is Heavily Protected by Armed Personnel".

The only change would need to be in State Government since the State is in control of Education not the Fed.,another consideration and affect of Article 10 or the 10th Amendment.

greyseal · #60 01-01-2013, 04:57 AM

Well for what it's worth, I really don't think more firearms are the solution to this particular problem. To be frank, it just sounds nutty, on so many levels, to suggest that armed guards are the answer to the problem. Talking about ambulances at the bottom of a cliff! In this case the issue isn't so much that schoolchildren were killed with firearms. The issue that we need to focus on is the willingness of the individual concerned to pick up a weapon and murder innocent children. As by almost any definition the person responsible must be considered insane, the real issue then is one of mental health. Why is it that seemingly increasing numbers of people within our communities appear ****-bent on slaughter? I suspect the answer to some extent lies in our poorly thought-out public health policies. The notion that people who are mentally ill should be encouraged to live at large within the wider community is probably the essence of the problem. Generally this approach works fine if everyone takes their meds but when they don't, we have tragedies. In my view we need to move the debate from firearms ownership to mental health. Defending your right to own firearms in the face of these sorts of horrendous tragedies just seems self-absorbed, petty and ultimately doomed to failure. What you need to do is to get politicians to defend 'their' public health policies which have allowed (usually as a cost saving measure) mental patients to act out their twisted world views in our local schools.