You fellers are abit over my head with all the chemestry and stuff that you look at.

Can report this after using LP for a year. Several firearms. All are running fine and/or are not rusting or detiererating in any way that I see. Nature of the product is to Lube and protect. Nothing else! It has done so here in Iowa. I'm fine with it at the price I paid for it by mistaken order.

My original "square nail" still exists. I like it (LP).

Cheezywan

Sounds like it's fine for what you want it to do, then. The last few posts were really about bore cleaners compared to BF CLP and not to the LP you have, anyway.

You still might take an interest in the Gunzilla product for restoration purposes. In addition to its non-toxic (it's designed to be OK on your hands all day, whereas the BF CLP MSDS's warns that too much skin contact can lead to liver and kidney damage; I can't find an MSDS for LP) Gunzilla is a slow but very effective rust loosener.

My dad got a Springfield barrel that the borescope revealed had a few dark discolorations in the rifling near mid-bore, but otherwise looked normal. I cleaned it until nothing came out on the patches but a little grayness, but I left it wet with Gunzilla. Work travel then conspired to keep me from getting back to it for about 6 weeks, but when I did, I put a patch through and carbon and rust came out mainly on one side of the patch. I went back in with the borescope and found the discolored areas were gone, but bare steel-colored pits were in their places. What had happened was the discoloration was actually old rust pitting that had become glazed over with carbon to look like rifling. The Gunzilla, given enough time, had actually broken down both the carbon and rust and let it all fall to the bottom of the barrel where the patch picked it up.

Gunzilla is, perhaps, unique in that it actually breaks carbon bonds over time. It can be slow, but the carbon gradually turns to a sort of sludge that can flow. I knew it was a good rust loosener, but didn't realize that over time it could actually flow that off, too. Perhaps that's an exaggeration in that it may have been important that the carbon was intermixed with it in the rifle barrel, but the amazing thing was a complete lack of rust color in the pit floors at all.

I'm currently rusting some nails for another experiment. I'll have to drop one into Gunzilla for a few weeks to see what happens to it?

__________________
Nick

__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

I'm going to try gunzila just because you recomend it unclenick. You have explored alot of stuff that I have not. I trust you at your word.

Besides the nail test, I've been running LP on three auto-loaders. One scatter-gun, a 22 handgun, and a 22 rifle. All of those run good to date. So I can report no real build-up of gunk using it.

Also applied it to a single-shot rifle and a bolt repeater that don't get used much. It stays where it's suppose to and there is no corrosion.

I've been shooting the crap out of a particular revolver lately with lead bullets.
Next time I tear it down, I'll reassemble with LP and see how it runs?

I still have most of a quart of Mobil 1 ( 0W-40) that I want to work with in regard to the war on carbon that Humpy brought up on another thread. Wonder if you have played with that any?

Thanks to all of you that have posted here. I read them all.

Cheezywan

Cheezy,

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I've not tried Mobil 1 because I already owned a quart of Slip2000 gun oil which is also a synthetic oil. The synthetic oils, as mentioned in the PS article on cleaning, have a flash point about 5 times higher in temperature than hydrocarbon oils, so they don't tend to turn into carbon under the heat of firing. I expect any of them to produce less carbon than their traditional predecessors. As to actually breaking carbon down, though, I think you are basically stuck with Gunzilla, the harsher Slip2000 Carbon Killer, or Boretech C4. I've tried all three, and letting the Gunzilla take its time has thus far been most satisfactory, though I'm not done exploring C4 yet. Carbon Killer works, but seems to etch Parkerizing slightly where the other two products do not. Also, I don't have to wear gloves using the other two.

__________________
Nick

__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

I'm gonna have to try the Gunzilla cleaner. My home brew cleaner I use is a 3 to 1 mix of Kroil and Hoppes #9. Seems to break fouling loose better together than separate. I have been using Breakfree LP and CLP for years with good results. Have felt no need to look for something else but from the sound of it the new stuff does better.

__________________
A truely successful life is mostly based on how well you handle PLAN B.

Gunzilla is terrific on carbon given time to work. If you want copper removal, they also make a copper removing cleaner (Copperzilla, IIRC), but I haven't tried it. I've been too happy with Boretech Eliminator for general copper and fresh carbon removal.

__________________
Nick

__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

That is the kind of post I was looking for. Really no matter now though. I'm using the stuff real regular. Just because I own a quart of it.

As a sidenote; I've never used CLP.

Cheezywan

That 1991 MSDS you found has little in common with the 2011 MSDSs I have for CLP and LP. There's no mention of liver or kidney damage, all the SARA III questions are now answered "no" (this is different from even the 2008 MSDS I have), and the LP is even more benign-sounding product. More benign than "Contact may cause mild irritation. Repeated contact may cause defatting of skin and rash."

I like the LP better as a lube. This isn't surprising, really, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I found a year-or-two-old email exchange with Safariland wherein they say that LP is a better choice for pure lube and corrosion protection. Again, not that surprising.

__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." --Gerald Ford

MZ5,

I didn't find a current MSDS for it, nor any MSDS for LP, so I'm glad you've got hold of current ones. I looked at the other MSDS sheets for it from that same Emedco source for different years, '96, '97, and 2000, and found they lack that warning, too, so I'm suspecting at this point that a formulation change occurred between '91 and '96.

In Gunzilla's parent company's web site the owner says the liver/kidney damage warning was the reason he started out to develop Gunzilla as a non-toxic alternative, but I don't know what year he saw the warning or started the development work. At the time I got my first sample from him up on Commercial Row at Camp Perry (probably late 90's or 2000-ish), he didn't mention the liver and kidney damage, but just said he'd wanted to develop a product that armorers could have on their hands all day long without problems. That addresses the skin inflammation warnings.

Anyway, I'm glad the serious concerns have been eliminated.

A question I have for you is whether the Teflon content looks higher than BF CLP's? One of the Smith & Wesson armorer's school tricks for smoothing double-actions was to mix BF CLP into a slurry with JB Bore Compound and operate the mechanism with that as the lube until it smoothed out. I've got a different mix I use that way, but am curious if the LP looks like a good candidate for the method.

__________________
Nick

__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

It's just a little bit "tacky" if that works as a word? I'd think it would work in a slurry situation. Should hold suspention fine if shaken well. Maybe squirt a little bar oil in there to make it hold in suspention longer. Just pondering there.

Good luck to all playing with LP.

Cheezywan

Unclenick: No explicit listing of PTFE on either MSDS. Doesn't mean it's not in there, of course. Perhaps it's part of the (from the LP MSDS): "Synthetic Rust Inhibitors, esters, & lubrication additives 25 - 35%." I suppose it's possible they don't use PTFE any more. I wouldn't know about that; I didn't ask.

My bottle of LP says something to the effect of 100% solids, with respect to the lubrication aspect of the product. Given that the product is majority PAO oil, with significant ester content as well, I find that slightly humorous. PAOs and esters are normally good to outstanding lubricants, depending upon exactly which esters they're using. Clearly there's more to LP's lubricating ability than just the excellent-quality oils they use.

__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." --Gerald Ford

MZ5,

On the back of an old (very old) plastic bottle of the BF CLP, it says "the secret formula contains specially treated ptfe…" That's all the info I have on it, other than that I can see the stuff as a white layer when it settles on the bottom. Unfortunately, with the formula apparently having changed, I don't know how it compares between then an now.

__________________
Nick

__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Patron Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley