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  #1  
Old 01-24-2012, 05:18 PM
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how you clean your gun


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i have heard that there is no such thing as a dumb question. well i either feel dumb or just lost wandering the woods. i am new to shooting, and very new to cleaning. i recently purchased a weatherby vanguard in 30-06, but also shoot a remington 1100, and a winchester model 63 in 22lr. i know they should all be cleaned a bit differently, but i find myself most concerned with the 30-06. from my reading and from talking to people i know that seem to have limited knowledge, i have a process i use.

using a dewey rod from chamber to muzzle, i push a patch dipped in hoppe's 9 a time or two using a brass jag. then i run a dry patch or two down. next i wash off the brass jag and run a patch dipped in rem oil, then a dry patch, repeating until they come out clean. finally i run a lightly dipped patched with rem oil down the bore and leave sitting muzzle down on a dry patch.

i do have a brass brush but it seems like many of you do not use them, especially on rifles that only have 40 shots through them. my concern comes from looking just inside the barrel on the muzzle end and seeing a slight orange haze and wondering if i did something wrong.

sorry for the long post, kind of wondering what your process is, and what you use.
thanks
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:55 PM
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Nothing wrong with what you're doing. I do however use the 'bronze' brush first, several runs through the barrel, with Hoppes #9, then patches with Hoppes #9, alternating dry/wet, finishing with a dry, then a patch or two with oil, then a dry. Then I'm done, usually, at least with the barrel.

The brush will remove stubborn carbon and copper deposits that a jag or slotted head w/patch may not remove.

Then, every now and then, I clean the chamber with a 'chamber mop' with solvent. Midway USA and others have them. And, every time I clean the barrel, I also clean the bolt & rails. Solvent first, then oil, then dry. A plastic pick set will help you get into all the recesses and tight spots.

Do a search on the 'Gun Cleaning' forum and you'll have a lot of reading.
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2012, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DESIGNdummy View Post
My concern comes from looking just inside the barrel on the muzzle end and seeing a slight orange haze and wondering if i did something wrong.
I don't think you've done anything wrong, just not enough cleaning. The orange is jacket fouling.

~ Make sure the patch is snug, not tight, in the bore.
~ Don't let the patch/jag exit the bore completely, but run it far enough to clean the muzzle.
~ Swab the bore until the patch feels "loose", then replace and start again.

~~~~~~~~

Usually the two areas that get cleaned the least are the muzzle and the section just in front of the chamber. Make sure the strokes on the cleaning rod are long enough to clean these areas.

To check for fouling;
~ Run a couple of dry patches through the bore to remove left over crud or moisture.
~ Push a clean patch into the muzzle, just about and inch, but this can vary depending on bore diameter. Use a punch, toothpick etc., but leave the patch there.
~ Grab a magnifying glass and head into the sunlight.
~ Put the sun behind you so it shines into the bore, light will be reflected off that nice clean patch.
~ The bore should be silver in color, heck you can probably see machine marks it'll be so clean.

Now, if you see something other than silver, the bore is not clean enough. If you see black or brown, that will be powder and carbon fouling. If you see orange or green, that will be jacket fouling.

~~~~~~~~

Once the bore really really clean, accuracy will probably be lousy. The barrel is now too clean and needs several fouling shots before accuracy testing or hunting.

By keeping records with info on rounds fired and cleaning schedule and amount of cleaning, you can alter your cleaning regimen to eliminate all the fouling shots.

~~~


REMOVE THE PATCH NOW


Make sure the bore is clear.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:29 PM
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thanks for the replies guys, i will for sure keep what you said in mind when cleaning. i was planning on picking up a variety of cleaners and alternate with each cleaning. thinking about butches bore shine and boretech eliminator. also is it okay to finish with the wet rem oil patch, or should i finish with a dry patch if i dont plan on shooting for a few weeks.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:47 PM
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Run several dry patches to remove solvent, then an oiled patch, then a dry patch or two.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DESIGNdummy View Post
....is it okay to finish with the wet rem oil patch, or should i finish with a dry patch if i dont plan on shooting for a few weeks.
I always finish with a dry patch, but there are some factors that may change that for you.

I live in a low humidity area, at least most of the time. If you live in a high humidity area, more oil may be more suitable. Also, after I clean my guns, they go in the rack, butt down, barrel up. I don't want excess oil running down in the action and maybe swelling a walnut stock. Not so much of a concern with composite stocks other than oil leaking out when carrying it. If you store your guns barrel down that problem is solved, but you still want to clear that out before shooting again.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:06 AM
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1) I run a wet patch through the bore first, just push this one through and throw it away.

2) Then run a wet tight fitting brush about 10 strokes (in and out makes one stroke) rewet the brush and do ten more.

3) Run a dry patch through and throw it away.

4) Repatch your jag (I prefer the round style with the pointed tip over the slotted one for this) and stroke the patch several times, reversing when it just starts coming out the muzzle. After three patches they should be coming out clean. If not or you can still see jacket fouling in the barrel, start at step one and go through it again.

5) After the barrel is clean, I clean the chamber, bolt races and the bolt itself. After everything is clean I oil (using Break-Free) a patch and run it through the bore, and wipe the action and bolt with the same patch. Important note; run dry patches through the barrel and chamber before shooting next time.

Added note here use a good one piece rod, brass brushes with the brass twist and a bore guide when cleaning. Brass brushes are expendable, Replace 'em when they get loose.
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Last edited by MontyF; 01-25-2012 at 08:13 AM. Reason: added statement
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  #8  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:31 PM
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thanks for all the replies guys.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2012, 09:53 AM
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If I know that the gun will be stored a long time before being used again, I give it a thin coat of RIG inside and out. ( "RIG" stands for Rust Inhibiting Grease. ) It takes a bit more work to apply than oil or spray-on rust preventatives, but it does not drain off or evaporate with time. It stays right where you put it; you just have to make sure you cover the entire surface. It doesn't move away from edges like the spray-ons do because of their very low viscosity and penetrating qualities.

I've never had the slightest rust develop on any gun I put away properly RIGed.

You can buy what are called "RIG-Rags", which are pieces of sheepskin with the wool on that are impregnated with RIG. These are excellent for wiping a gun down after you've taken it out of the safe for your friends to admire, or as a last step before putting it away after cleaning.

Obligatory Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with the company that makes RIG, except to buy their products as a satisfied customer.

Best,

Trad A. Non
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2012, 01:33 PM
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I have a sheepskin that came from a carwash mit. It's just about half of the mit as I made two.

I rub in a small quanity of RIG into the wool and wipe the guns down whn put away. I use one of those tin box's that can be had from a craft store for storage.

You can buy them from many suppliers, but this was a cheaper wayout
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2012, 12:51 PM
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For anyone new to cleaning high power rifles, I recommend this 2006 article from Precision Shooting Magazine. It will save you a lot elbow grease. The author tried every product he could find and concluded none of the petroleum-based bore cleaners acts on carbon adequately. The Author doesn't detail how each cleaner tested works, but concludes:

"The question might be raised, “What were the other products that were
tested?” The names of the myriad other products used in this study have purposely been omitted since Bore Tech’s Eliminator, and Slip 2000’s
Carbon Cutter and Gun Lube were clearly far superior to all other products
tested."

That matches my experience. Since the article was written, Bore Tech has come out with its own specialized carbon remover. I don't know how it compares to the Slip 2000 product, but I have both and will make a comparison when I can. Eliminator is non-toxic, odorless, and biodegradable, so I use it mostly. The Slip 2000 product has odor and is somewhat harsh, so I've limited its use to true carbon cake, as in gas operating systems.

I use a small pump spray I carry to the range. At the end of a range session I pull the bolt out and squirt a pump of Eliminator into the chamber with the muzzle down and look from the breech to see that it wets the bore all the way to the muzzle. If not, it gets a second spritz. I keep some Neoprene stoppers and chamber plugs in my range box, and plug the muzzle and chamber until I get the thing home. At that point, if the gun's bore is smooth, a patch wet with Eliminator pretty much gets it all out. Per the article, I let that sit another several minutes and try again. But it's usually about done. A rough bore can take a couple of sessions of letting it sit 15 or 20 minutes, agitating every few with the same wet patch. But there's no brushing any more.

I do use the special alloy jags that Bore Tech sells (their Proof Positive jags) so I don't see blue on wet patches due to the product attacking brass jags.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:24 AM
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I have tried a myriad of carbon solvents and have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of "snake oils" out there that are unneeded and companies make a lot of money on "suckers". No offense anyone.

I mixed up a solution of Ed's Red some time ago and have found that it work's about as good as anything I have tried, and I have quite a collection.

I mix up about a half gallon at a time and share it with my friends.

It's easy to make, cheap and it works great.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:07 AM
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DougB,

Did you read the article I linked to? Did you see the pictures on Slip 2000's site? I can personally attest that their Carbon Killer does exactly what they show in the photos. A couple of decades ago, I got very frustrated soaking carbon caked M14 gas pistons and M1 Garand op-rods in every firearm and automotive carbon removing chemistry then available, and all without effect. So I can appreciate how you might think it's all snake oil, but I can assure you these particular more modern chemistries are not. The article points out that none of the petroleum based bore cleaners did much to carbon, so the author had the same experience.
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Last edited by unclenick; 02-15-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:11 AM
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I'll have to try Slip 2000 and Bore Tech.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:59 AM
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I'd get some Bore Tech Eliminator for your copper fouling. That stuff works great on all kinds of firearms. I have also had good luck with Outers Foaming Bore Cleaner.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:44 PM
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I like most others have tried every witches brew out there and have settled on a couple I like. I've also adopted a method of cleaning that seems to work better than any other I've tried to date.

When I get through firing it, when the barrel is still warm, I cap off the end of the barrel, I fill it with a solvent of my choice, (since everbody has there own favorite) from the chamber end, and then plug off that end. I usually let the rifle sit for a while when I get home, then uncap the muzzle and drain some ungodly ugly stuff out. I push one dry patch through it to push the rest of the sovent out that didn't drain and the crud that comes with it. I wet a bronze brush with another solvent of my choice and make a couple of passes through with it, then run a few dry patches through to push all that gook out. Another couple of patches wet with solvent, and couple more dry. Then I push a couple wet with denatured alcohol to wash all solvents out and then one patch with an oil of my choice and a couple dry patches to dry most of it out. I used to flush it with brake part cleaner but found the alcohol works just fine and doesn't cost but a few cents.

I've found this leaves the barrel the cleanist of any method I've tried and with the least amount of work. So far, it has worked great at removing the hard carbon from the throat, and there is no trace of copper left in the barrel.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:26 PM
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I used to flush it with brake part cleaner but found the alcohol works just fine and doesn't cost but a few cents.

I've found this leaves the barrel the cleanist of any method I've tried and with the least amount of work. So far, it has worked great at removing the hard carbon from the throat, and there is no trace of copper left in the barrel.
Ya know Keith, you should never waste Jack Daniels, and switch your powder to avoid the HC issue

Design,
For the 22 LR. When I built my last 2 - 10/22's the Butler Creek barrels specifically said NOT to clean them during their life, unless you lodge junk in the pipe.

Since finding the Hard Carbon issue with ADI's extruded junk in '04-'05, I use General Dynamics ball powders. All of which have at least some of the Tin compounds that make CFE223 "magic". So Perhaps that helps.

I like Penetrants for loosening powder fouling. THAT is specifically what they are for, and they are a poop-load cheaper than "Gun cleaners". Kroil, WD-40, Knocker Loose; that type. I find that those do a perfectly good job, and MOST of the fouling that I personally deal with is powder. Those and pull or two of the bore snake is perfectly fine.

On the rare occasion when I find enough copper to warrent a scrubbing. I personally like Sweets for copper. Also happy with MPro-7/Hoppe's Elite(same thing).

Honestly the penetrants and a bore snake from time to time are enough in my book. I have a 308 shooting MOA at 1,000 with 500 some rounds since last cleaning, and north of 3500 rounds in it's life.
It really comes down to what you feel comfortable with.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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I don't, it's Old Crow.

I keep testing different powders, but having a hard time finding loads that match what I've been getting. I thought the Accurate Powders were doing great, but they just did a better job at smoothing out so you couldn't tell it. I had about 200 rounds through the M&P 15 with AA 2230 and it start shooting much worse than it was already shooting. I looked at it and it didn't look bad but I gave is a good soaking, scrubbing and cleaning anyway. Once the carbon in the throat started breaking up, I could see there was a hellava heavy build up of it.

After that experience, I got the 223 out I've been shooting AA 2520 in and has always looked good with just a good wipe out with couple of wet patches. Same thing, once it started getting the carbon to break up, it was all kinds of ugly in the throat.

The last several trips I've been taking the 260's and the 22-250 and tried plugging the barrels with a good bit of solvent in them while still warm and cleaning later. That's getting pretty expansive because the I have to mail order the solvent, it's not cheap and shipping is almost as much as it, but it sure cleans the heck out of the barrels with very little effort now. When this bottle gets low, I'm gonna try some of Unclenicks Slip 2000 stuff. Figure I will order it and some Wipe Out. Those two will give me just about every known brand on the market, most of which have proven to be snake oil and worthless. BPS is suppose to start selling the one I'm using now pretty soon, if they do, I will probably keep on using it to soak them with and my KG products when I get home to finish cleaning them.
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Last edited by BKeith; 01-02-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:46 PM
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Good info.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:16 PM
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BKeith, did you know that you can recycle/re-use the KG-1 carbon remover? It can be re-used indefinitely without negatively impacting performance (apart from the need to strain it through a cheesecloth or something periodically ). I'm not sure whether that's what you're filling your bore with when you plug and fill it or not, but thought I'd pass the info along since it came directly from KG's formulating chemist.
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