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Stuck Bolt on Winchester Model 70

22K views 17 replies 11 participants last post by  kdub 
#1 ·
Hello All,
I have just run into a small problem with my Winchester Model 70 .30'06. I purchased this used 15 months ago, but just now fired it for the first time after purchasing it. Prior to firing it, it cycled and dry-fired well. The safety was a bit tough, but it worked.

Well, it has been sitting for about 6 months and I finally tried test firing it with a 32acp in a .30'06 insert (starting w/ something quiet). It loaded, safety disengaged, and it fired with no evident troubles (sounded like a silenced 22!). However, after firing I had the following problems:

1.) The bolt would not rotate far enough to disengage the lugs. I could see the lug, but it still needed another 10-15 degrees for the bolt to disengage. It seems that the bolt has rotated relative to the bolt handle. Any ideas of what may have happened?

2.) The safety will not go back to "safe". Keep in mind, I haven't switched it in this direction for 6 months and realize it may be stuck, but want to run this by you all.


I was thinking of clamping the bolt via wooden blocks that fit through the action, and then tapping the bolt handle with a wooden mallet to move it relative to the bolt about 10-15-degrees. As for the safety, I'm stumped!

So, what do you think? Is this something I can fix myself?

Thank you all in advance for your help!


-Sheb
 
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#2 ·
Model 70s have a known problem with the safety digging into the cam on the firing pin, and getting difficult to operate. Had this issue myself.

Since mine opened, and I was able to correct the problem easily, I do not have any suggestions to fix this.... are you saying that the bolt shroud rotated? Not understanding your description, sorry!
 
#3 ·
Point is, why were you firing anything but the designated caliber in your gun--it is 30 caliber, not 32. Did you cycle the adaptor thru the gun before firing it? Do NOT clamp the gun and beat on the bolt handle with anything---it is silver soldered on and you are likely to break it off and be in a worse situation. Sounds to me like you need a good gunsmith.
 
#5 ·
I didn't realize there were inserts for this sort of thing. The 32 ACP is 7.65mm, or 0.309", while the std 30-06 is 7.62mm, or 0.308". Doesn't seem like much, and may be fine with lead bullets, but maybe could cause problems with jacketed bullets?

I'd cut my losses and take it to a gunsmith and fully explain what happened. If the gunsmith gets things working again, I'd fire some factory 30-06 to see if all is well, then scrap the idea of shooting 32 ACP again.
 
#6 ·
I doubt there is bolt lug or receiver lug set back unless the rifle is very early or has had the heat treatment messed up by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

More than likely, the problem is with the interface between the safety and the cocking piece. I'm fairly experienced with most bolt actions but I stayed away from anything other than trigger adjustments on my M70 so I wouldn't even know where to begin. Take it to a good gunsmith, preferably one who has significant experience with M70's.

The 32 ACP inserts (.309" bullet as pointed out above) probably didn't cause any problems (have you used this insert in other .30-06 without problems?).
 
#7 ·
No question about it, if you try anything aside from the standard caliber for which a gun is chambered, problems may occur. This is nothing new for me--my profession involves experimental work with armor that uses many ballistic variations--usually firing sub-caliber rounds or FSPs via sabot. I only work with 30-cal and below.

In this case, this is a production item made specifically for firing 32acp's from a 30-06. Although there is a 0.001 diameter difference, the bullet is also alot shorter, making the "engraving" for this larger diameter not a problem (if it were a long rifle bullet in 0.309, i'd worry).

My only concern with the 32acp was that it would not drive the bullet completely through the 26" barrel. However, it did, and with enough oomph to go through 1.5" of pressure treated pine, and then to flatten out on the 1" steel plate backing it. Noisewise, all I heard was the bullet hitting the steel. (Note, the gun was on a specially made test stock, for armor testing, and the target was completely contained in a steel box--again, this was a professional set up). Unfortunately, my expertise is with terminal and interior ballistics--NOT gunsmithing:) (However, if anyone can recommend a good intro gunsmithing course, I'd like to take it).

I completely agree with above posts regarding firing a "deviant" cartridge. However, in this case, it is part of the job. And I accept the risks accordingly--this is one of them. To answer other questions, no, I never fired this cartridge in any other 30-06. However, I have had issues with the bolt well before firing the gun and long before I ever got the insert cartridge. So I strongly suspect that the cartridge is not the issue.

I took some pictures that show the position of the bolt handle and lugs in the furthest position I can get it when trying to open it. At this point, the end of the bolt near the handle is rotating into the ramp that begins the ejecting action, at which point it stops, since the lug still has anohter 10deg to 15deg to go. Somehow, the bolt handle seems like it's rotated relative to the lugs. Can someone verify that this is possible.

I've taken some pictures showing the lug and and bolt, and will try to get these up tonight.

While I'll definitely see about the gunsmith about the safety, I'd like to try to solve the bolt problem myself--for the sake of learning.

As for the safety, this is not the first time it has this issue either. However, previously I was always able to re-engage it by wiggling it and pulling up some. But it sounds like a problem common to this model, so I'll have it fixed.

Thanks again for you comments and advice!
 
#8 ·
For anyone who might be curious, here are some examples of 32acp inserts. These are off-the-shelf items made specifically for the .303's, .308's and .30'06. However, I have no idea how much product testing went into them.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129724891

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/rifle-chamber-insert.aspx?a=471502

Incidentally, they make versions of these that allow 22LR to be fired from a 45 revolver (off-center for the rimfire). http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/45-cal-1917-doughboy-22-lr-conversion-inserts.aspx?a=556319


Anyway, it looked like a good thing to use to check my setup before firing a real .30'06 cartridge. And it may still be. But it looks like I've got some "debugging" to do!
 
#9 ·
If the bolt handle is brazed on, then I suppose it could have been done incorrectly (or not at all) and was merely a press fit. Never heard of this, but seems possible.

Will wait for pictures......
 
#12 ·
Pictures

Here are the pictures. http://yfrog.com/5rwin70fjx

(sorry for the earlier post with the dead links...I never could get the image linking to work)

Two of these (Win70e.jpg & Win70f.jpg) are of the rifle with the bolt completely closed. Note, the lug cannot be seen through the slot in the receiver.

The remainder show the bolt in the most open position I can get it in, showing both the bolt handle as well as the partially unencumbered bolt lug through the lug cut-out in the receiver.

What do you think? Does is look like the bolt handle may be displaced or misaligned?
 
#13 · (Edited)
Understand your situation. Remember firearms are precision instruments and there should be no need to use force. Let a smith figure it out and resolve the problem(s).

I guess there is discussion about the bolt being on INcorrectly. How did it work before the round was fired?? We dont really know what you fired in it.. I still say let the gunsmith do his hocus-pocus.
 
#14 ·
One thing to try before you take it to the gun smith would be to take the stock off, it is possible that one of the stock screws is in to far and interfering with the bolt rotation, if that does not work take it to a gunsmith, do not try to beat the bolt open, i have repaired a LOT of guns that somone couldn't get open with normal pressure and decided to take a hammer to!
 
#15 ·
stuck bolt on winchester mod 70 30.06

Firing pin sticking so bolt will not ride up ramp
Safety difficult to operate
MAKE SURE GUN IS UNLOADED
Since bolt will not cycle you can carefully insert cleaning rod down bore
and measure distance to cleaning rod bottom and is should match to chamber bottom

At the back of the bolt is the back of the firing pin, if pin sticks safety will be difficult to operate
and bolt will not cycle
the fix
go to back of bolt behind safety
put penetrant on back of firing pin in recess with gun pointed towards floor

turn rifle over and remove screws for stock and trigger guard, remove stock
now you can see two holes in bolt assembly
you can see through the rear hole the firing pin spring retainer
using a small screwdriver you can carefully push on the spring retainer and work the firning pin loose. this requires patience and DO NOT PRY FORCEFULLY as you can damage bolt
watch the back of the firing pin it will move toward the rear and then you can cycle your bolt
If you see corrosion in the back of the bolt firing pin area you can tear down bolt but be warned reinstalling spring could be a bit difficult.
 
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