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  #1  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:06 PM
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Question Bullet stuck in 6.5mm Carcano


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I have been tasked with removing an obstruction from the barrel of an old 6.5mm Italian Carcano rifle. The obstruction, I am told, is a bullet, and as best I can see the obstruction it is indeed a bullet. I have no idea how this happend, and wasnt there, nor was the guy who owns the rifle, He bought it this way. I dont see a bulge in the contour of the barrel, or any other signs of damage, so Im hoping it will be safe to fire after its been cleared. I have a plastic coated steel rod I tried tapping it out with, but it didnt budge. The bullet is stuck only an inch or two from the chamber. I wanted to get You guys in-put before I went any farther. Ive never done this repair before, what tactics are best for the job? Im hoping not to get too rough with it, that usually makes things like this worse. I thought of maybe trying to disolve the copper jacket with solvent.... will that work? Work enough to free it anyways??

S_B
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  #2  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:49 AM
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First of all, put some penetrating oil down the muzzle and let it soak a day or two. Personally, I use a 50/50 mixture of ATF and acetone--seems to work better than anything else I've tried. Then get a brass rod close to bore size, some even put some tape in two or three places to get a sliding fit and eliminate possibilities of bore damage. Then, working from the muzzle you're gonna have to whack the rod firmly to break whatever the plug is loose. Oh, another point is to have your drive rod no more than a couple of inches longer than the barrel. Good luck! Here endeth the lesson. Goatwhiskers the Elder
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  #3  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:59 AM
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I'll go with the above. Good luck.

A mild steel rod shouldn't hurt the barrel, either.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2011, 06:25 AM
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I've been using the brass rod method for years. I have a number of different diameters and lengths. Some I have used a ball end mill to form a shallow cup in the tip to keep it centered. put a few CC's of Kroil down the barrel for a day or 2 from both ends. If its been in there for a while some corrosion may take place with the dis-similar metals contacting each other. I have used a heat gun cautiously applied to the area of the stuck round to help get the kroil to penetrate. Goatwhiskers tip of the tape is a good idea. Not only will it protect the bore but provide centering support. Most of the stuck bullets have been in pistols and 22 RF rifles. The old Carcano rounds were likely the cause of the squib load.
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  #5  
Old 07-10-2011, 12:47 PM
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Sounds pretty straight forward.... thanks so much for the help! I did a search for simular posts before I created this thread, guess I missed the ones entioned. I will hunt them down and read it. While I am doing my homework, I will have it soaking in penetrating oil, like Yall say. Hey, any suggestions on where to get brass rods like You talk about? I can get key stock and all thread and such at the hardware store, but I dont remember them having brass rods..... Where Did Yall get yours>?

S_B
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2011, 02:49 PM
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I have found solid round brass stock at my local hardware store and from several machine shop supply houses. HSC and Grizzly. My local Hardware store is now an ACE but still carries solid Brass and aluminum round stock. Some bigger hobby supply outfits may be a source. Check Brownells also.
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  #7  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:26 PM
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Above is good advice only thing I would do extra is to drill a shallow hole in the end of the rod to fit over the almost cirtin pointed bullet tape is a good idea to a close fit. Frank C.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:28 PM
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I'd not be opposed to 1/4" steel rod if that's what you can find locally. Its a military gun, most of those spent their lives with steel rods for cleaning... in orhter words, I'd not be too concerened about one more steel rod making one more pass.

Would need a military rifle expert, but at least some of the Carcanos had gain twist rifling. Would be best to push that bullet back out from the muzzle rather than driving into rifling that gets progressivly faster. Means you'll have a flat ended rod on a pointed bullet...would be better if the end of the rod was at least cupped (could drill it into a kind of cone).

For the real stinkers, want a short rod as large in diameter as will easily fit. Ideal would be a short rod that only sticks out the muzzle 2 or 2 1/2" when butt up to the bullet. Lets say a 1/4" rod, which would just slide into a 6.5 bore (land-to-land). Get a chunk of scrap wood, drill a 1/4" hole in it. Brace the rifle well (ideal would be to vice the bare metal work), Drop the rod down the barrel (only a couple of inches sticking up out the bore). Put the drilled scrap wood over the rod (now only about 1 1/2" of rod sticks up). SMACK the rod with a light hammer (somthing in the 6-8oz. range). The drilled scrap wood keeps you from buggering the muzzle when the rod moves down.

With an oiled bore, once it moves 1", should be able to slide it out with strong hand pressure with a longer rod.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:47 PM
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Ive been soaking it in penetrating oil for 2 days now, tapping a few times this eve with my plastic coated rod (a section of coated cleaning rod that got broken one time) but it isnt budging, and I am not bringing any copper/lead back on the end of the rod. Matter of fact.... the rod mushroomed a little, not enough to grab rifling, but tells me that whatever the bullet (if it is a bullet, im wondering now) is made of is awful hard. Ribbonstone, the obstruction is just an inch or 2, no more, from the chamber, so its close to coming out the breech end. Just hasnt budged yet.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2011, 06:25 PM
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People have pluged bores for various reasons over the years, so it might not be a bullet... could have been nearly anything that some one drove into that barrel. Of course, the next guy to chamber a round and fire it would be a very unhapppy camper, but in some situations that was exactly the intent (basically, boobie-traping the gun).

So assuming it wasn't threaded and pluged with a screw, the problem may be that the steel jacket of the old military bullet has rusted to the bore over time. That bullet might have been in there for 70 years, rusting away and bonding to the barrel.

Time to strip off all the wood and apply some heat. Propane torch should do the trick, getting it just hot enough for water dribbled on to sizzle but not instantly flash to steam (call that about 275-300F). Let it cool, then do it again.

Cleaning rods just aren't strong enough (esp. jointed ones), a good length of 1/4" steel rod would be.

An alternative (messy!!!) is to stand the gun up, fill the bore with oil (motor oil will do,,,but so would water for that matter). SHORT length of steel rod as large in diameter as will fit in the bore....plastic around rod to create a TIGHT fit. Try to get that tight fit WITHOUT any air between the rod and the oil. Use the scrap wood with a hole in it trick to protect the muzzle. WACK the crap out of the rod. Liquids won't compress, but they will form fit to the bullet profile and not mash it out of shape like a rod will. Oil is very likely to spray all over creation, but it might get that bullet moving.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:59 AM
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Good suggestions. The fact that the rod is mushrooming suggests you had best avoid anything soft (ie. brass).
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2011, 05:38 AM
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Most of the military Carcano ammo was corrosive priming. The military hardball ammo will not distort easily. (in all likelyhood this is what it was shot with) Combine the corrosive priming and the dissimilar metals of the projectile and the barrel and you have a scenario for well stuck bullet. The corrosive primed ammo does not survive time well and misfires and hangfires are common. This isn't the first time I have seen this happen. I am a big fan of Kroil, it has gotten things unstuck that other lubes wouldn't. I once soaked a mod 12 Win. barrel frame extension for almost a week before it cooperated and came off easily. Combine the heat with the kroil and the steel rod and patience. It should come out. Be careful with the heat. Don't exceed Ribbonstone's 275-300 deg F. A heat gun is less intense with less chance of overheating.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2011, 07:48 PM
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I like Ribbonstone and sportclays suggestions of heat, Id already been thinking about how to heat the barrel to hopefully get the walls of the barrel to spread, I didnt think of it simply working the steal in and out to break the bond of the obstruction and barrel walls. I dont have Kroil, but am gunna have to get some, the way yall say it works. Is it commonly available at Academy or even wally world? Or will I need to order it (if i need to order it, will be a week or so) OH! Or do auto part stores have it?

I need a heat gun.... ah, got one at work. Im in the telecommunications biz, phone/internet install and repair so I can borrow a heat shrink rig from there to try. My concern is will the heat mess up the bluing??? Ribbonstone, Ive already got it out of the stock. I was afraid Id get oil in the woodgrain or split it with all the tapping and pressure put on it from working the obstruction. I was surprised to find it is pillar bedded! When I get this thing out of the barrel, I will post pics here so Yall can see what it was. It hasnt given a millimeter as of yet.
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:36 AM
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If you heat it any hotter than that you may. I have purchased Kroil from the local NAPA auto parts store and from Brownells, MSC. A google search should find a lot of sources. It has been around for a long time.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2011, 04:57 AM
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A mixture of ATF and acetone will work at least as well, too, if that's more convenient.
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  #16  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:43 AM
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If they have Kroil at Napa, I can get it, that is where I get my auto parts. Mean while, I have been putting in too many hours at work to mess with the rifle for the past couple days, but I have been remembering to run out to the shop and pour in more WD-40 each day at least. The stuck bullet or whatever it is, doesnt have an air tight seal. Liquids run past it slowly. I can fill the barrel up with oil or such as that, and it runs right on out at a heavy drip pace. This would hurt the hydraulic press out approach wouldnt it? Or is there a way to create an air tight seal on top of the obstruction if I were to try the oil hydraulic method mentioned in a couple posts?
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:28 AM
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Hydraulic method ain't gonna' work---has to be sealed. Get you a rod that is a close fit in the bore, steel or brass, and a good stout hammer. Really shouldn't stick out the bore more than a couple of inches. Now, forget tapping, whack that sucker to break the rust loose, just don't hit the muzzle of the gun or you'll have other problems. Once it comes out you can see what the plug is and how much the bore may be damaged and render an intelligent decision what to do with the gun. Goatwhiskers the Elder
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2011, 12:15 PM
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This leads me to believe that the corrosive priming in conjunction with the dis-similar metal jacket of the bullet has really eaten the bore badly. Don't stick any more stuff in it to seal it. Some heat and a whack will probably do it. Do you have access to a bore scope? A local gunsmith or shop may have one and a peek at what you are dealing with may answer a lot of questions.
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2011, 01:34 PM
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Might try one of the rust-soaker products, then, if you think it's corroded. I saw a comparison test done in a magazine a while back. WD-40 was dead last as a penetrating oil, the commercial products like Liquid Wrench and PB Rust Blaster were in the middle. At the top was a 50/50 mixture of ATF and acetone. I forget if Kroil was in it.

The test methodology was neat, the guy rusted 10 fasteners for each product in salt spray, then measured the torque used to remove them (plus control samples).
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:48 PM
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Don't give up on the hydrolic methed yet. Still might work. Force of the fluid still has a fair chance of exeeding the leak around the obstruction. Just makes a mess.

Two ways to try. Safest one is to push a cotton patch in behind the stuck bullet(so as to hold the hydrolic fluid and keep it from leaking past).

Second method would be to push one in against the obstruction to hold oil.

Just need to make the darn thing move a little one way or the other so as to allow oil to get between it and the bore!

Don't rush it. Can win if you are patient enough.

Cheezywan
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