Okay well I have a Colt Trooper MK III .357 magnum with a 4 inch barrel and I usually shoot PMC .357 magnum 158 grain semi jacketed rounds in it and I was just wondering how the recoil will compare to a similar .44 magnum round shot through an 8 inch barrel? Little bit more? Quite a bit more? Tons more? Basically because I may be getting a Ruger Super Red/Blackhawk .44 magnum with a 8 inch barrel soon, so I'm just curious. Either way I know I'll love it because I love recoil, but I'd like to know the difference before I got it. Also I was wondering how all three rounds compare to each other when it comes to penetration?

Thanx in advance,

Chris

Yes the 44 Mag will have more recoil then the Colt .357. Another fact to look at is totally different stock designs of the grips. Suggest you start with some pussy cat 44 special loads, then mid velocity Mag loads, standard velocity loads and last heavy hunting loads. The Blackhawk grip will rotate in your hand during recoil. Penetration will depend on several factors ie. bullet construction, velocity and target medium. As given the biggest, heaviest (solid) and fastest will penetrate the most.

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De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91',03',04',05',06',08' & 09'
Afghanistan: 09',10' & 11'

Not even close in the recoil department..... the .44/.45 are a world apart. Around double the bullet weight of the typical .357 load, so figure at least double the recoil.

However, with 180gr. cast bullets, the .357 penetrates pretty good. Sectional density tells the tale here.... the heavy .44s/.45s lead the heavy .357s, but not by as much as you'd suspect.

On the plus side, a .44 is normally a bit heavier of a gun than a .357, and that helps keep things under control. There may be a bit of a learning curve if you go from a double-action revolver to a single-action (like the Blackhawk), but personally I find the single actions handle the recoil better.

Good luck.

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MikeG

Don't start with Factory 180gr UMC 44 mags! For some reason these kick nearly as hard as Garrett 310gr Hammerheads. Tons of muzzle blast and recoil. I wish I knew what powder that they put in those things.

Bill

Lets see I got one of those Ruger Super Redhawk's in 44 mag and a redhawk in 44 mag and an old S&W in 44 mag. I replaced the S&W Model 19 357 mag years ago.

Here are my thoughts. Handloads with a cast 240/255 loaded to 1200-1300 fps feel like they have the same or less recoil than the 357 with mag loads. Plus the gun is much more fun to shoot.

As far as penitration goes the basic rule is given the same volicity and same bullet configeration the smaller the diameter of the bullet the more penetration. That means say at 1500 fps a 357 will penetrate further than a 41 and the 41 will penetrate further than a 44.

For practical purposes its really the energy carried to the animal that kills it. Thats why a 44 is a better gun for deer or black bear hunting.

Bottom line is I don't own a 357 anymore. Just the 44's. One of mine the S&W with a 6.5 inch bbl carries magnaports excellent EDM porting. It makes the gun shoot like a mild 38 special. That might be one way to step up to a bigger bore if your recoil sensitive.

I've been looking at all the new guns on the market and am really impressed with the .480, 454 and the new 500 S&W, but am going to stay with my 44 mags. After 40 years of hunting, 19 black bear and I don't know how many deer they seem to do the job. Plus they've become really good friends and you don't dump good friends.

Good luck on your quest for that bigger bore and good hunting.

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Bob from Idaho

My NM Blackhawk in 4 5/8ths does have considerable recoil with heavier loads and as mentioned grip design does allow for some rotation in your palm however this can be minized with standard two hand grip and taking small finger of your lower hand and curling it under your grip. Good luck with the gun hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine

I think you've all missed a key point to the question:
If the 44 Mag round is truely "similar" to the 357, which would mean roughly the same bullet weight and velocity, then the Super Redhawk will have less felt recoil than a 4" Trooper. However for them to truely be similar you're going to have a very down loaded 44 Magnum.

If you're going to compare standard/typical loads then the 44 is likely to have more felt recoil. A 240gr @ 1,300+ fps is going to recoil more than a 158gr @ 1,200 fps and a 300gr hunting load in the 44 is going to recoil more than anything you'll put through a 4" 357.

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John

http://www.handloads.com

Felt recoil is a function of the amount of weight ejected from the weapon and the weight of the weapon. With the Redhawk being quite a bit heavier than the Colt Trooper felt recoil will be about the same or less. If you start pushing near max loads with either you are going to have pretty good recoil with either. I owned a Trooper mk3 in 357 and much prefer to shoot my Redhawk or my Smith. I reload and shoot those 240/255 grain cast Kieth style bullets at 1200-1350 fps and they are mild to shoot, accurate and carry more energy than the hottest load you can push a 357. If you are really concerned about recoil being a factor have your revolver magna-ported. My smith with fairly hot lodes feels like a 38 special.

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Bob from Idaho

Since you haven't shot a 44 mag yet, I think the best comparison between 357 and 44 mags is a non-gun comparison. I would compare the two to putting a good middle-weight fighter up against Muhammad Ali. There IS a difference. You won't know until you try. Everyone has a different tolerance level. Some guys would shoot an 88 mag handgun if there was one. I stopped at 454 and backed down to 44 mag.

Take some 44 special loads and some 44 mag normal loads and some Corbon hunting or other heavy 44 mag loads out with you. Start with the specials and work your way up. I gave away the last 1/2 box of my 454 heavy loads rather than take the punishment of finishing the box. Traded the 454 for a sweet 44.

Here's something on bullet penetration. I copied this directly from an article about the penetration tests conducted at a John Linebaugh seminar in Cody, WY in 2001. They were shooting into stacks of newspaper:

"Concentrating on the handgun loads, we note that the trend towards higher penetration with heavier bullets, given similar bullet construction, is almost universal while velocity didn’t have nearly the same effect. In both the .475 and .500, large increases in velocity netted relatively small increases in penetration. With the 420 grain LBT in the .475, a 27% velocity increase yielded a 17 ½% increase in penetration. With the .500 and the 435 LBT, a 27% increase in velocity produced a paltry 12% penetration gain. While these gains may be of great importance in certain cases, I think the added recoil will cause some of us to pause for reflection. Again considering the .500, a 14% increase in bullet weight from 435 to 495 resulted in a startling 37% gain in penetration. I am really looking forward to experimenting with the Cast Performance 525 grain LBTLFNGC."

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Greenhorn Dave
Florida

If you are going to get a Blackhawk, the Bisley variant is renown for handling recoil better. As far as recoil goes, I think there is a huge difference. I’m a lightly built, 6 feet, 160 pounds. I’m good for 6 rounds of 44 mag. My friend, 6 foot 2, 260 pounds, is good for 36 rounds. Shooting more than that would induce a flinch. We can both shoot our 357s all day.

Darrel

My first handgun was a Ruger SRH with 9.5 inch barrel and it all depends on the load. I have full power hunting loads that you know when they go off to a lighter Cowbow Action type load for IPSC and ICORE shooting. I can go shoot a couple hundred rounds and still want more but that's just me.

I can group better with my 44 than my 9mm auto, go figure.
Now I have a S&W 686+ 38/357 (7 shot) 6" barrel with moon clips and a 5.9 lb trigger pull on double action to use for revolver matches.

My load is using a 135 gr moly coated lead bullet at around 950 fps and it is close to the same feel as my light load on my 44 mag.

It all depends on what you can handle. I loved shooting my giant 44 in matches but its hard to compete against the lighter loads on the smaller guns so that is why I got the S&W.

I would suggest finding a range that rents guns and try before you buy. That's what I did, my forearms hurts for a couple days after a box of 50 and now I can shoot hundreds of rounds with no problem.

I bought a .44 mag super black hawk 6 1/2 barrel. Two good loads I found that shoot well out of mine are
1) 180grn jacketed hollow point w/10.5 grns unique
2) 200grn rnd nose lead w/8.5 grn red dot.
out of my sbh these were accurate comfortable loads that I used for deer hunting. I'm not sure if I would be using them for bear, but when I was going through my divorce I sure shot a lot of them at the range. (It was a great stress reliever lol)

How would all of these factor change in a light carbine, like a Winchester M94 Trapper with a 16" barrel that weighs 6 pounds? I'm still unsure about the ability of a .357 mag or .44 mag carbine being able to reliably take game that are deer sized, yet still be cost efficient in to shoot at the range regularly.

Patrick

Why? Hunters take plenty of deer every year with these calibers, in both rifles and handguns. I can assure you, if it will kill a deer out of a handgun, it won't be less effective in a rifle. Just need to make sure the bullets will hold up at the rifle velocities, and hard cast solves all of those problems.

In a light gun, the .44 mag will kick you pretty good, no two ways about it. .44 Specials will help, and .38s will be pipsqueeks.

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MikeG

A lot of factors contribute to the perceived recoil between different guns, e.g. weight, distribution of weight (muzzle heavy, etc.), grip design, caliber, load, porting, etc. I ran some data for you. I used load data for the respective calibers from the Hornady reloading manual (maximum loads, usually with same type of powder). I didn't have info on the Colt and Ruger revolver weights, so I used figures for Smith & Wesson 4" 686 (40.0 oz) and 629CL 8 3/8" (53.5 oz), plus Winchester '94 Trapper (6.0 lbs). These figures won't be exact, but they should give you a ball park estimate of the preceived recoil for the various calibers.

HANDGUNS:

.38 Spc. 125gr HP/XTP @ 950fps Recoil: 2.82ft.lbs.
.38 Spc. 158gr HP/XTP @ 800fps Recoil: 2.93ft.lbs.
.357 Mag 125gr HP/XTP @1400fps Recoil: 7.46ft.lbs.
.357 Mag 158gr HP/XTP @1200fps Recoil: 7.72ft.lbs.
.357 Mag 180gr HP/XTP @1150fps Recoil: 8.40ft.lbs.
.44 Spc. 180gr HP/XTP @1000fps Recoil: 4.72ft.lbs.
.44 Spc 240gr HP/XTP @800fps Recoil: 4.87ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 200gr HP/XTP @1550fps Recoil: 16.24ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 240gr HP/XTP @1350fps Recoil: 16.05ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 300gr HP/XTP @1150fps Recoil: 16.41ft.lbs.


RIFLES:

.357 Mag 158gr HP/XTP @1600fps Recoil: 5.01ft.lbs.
.357 Mag 180gr HP/XTP @1400fps Recoil: 4.87ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 200gr HP/XTP @1900fps Recoil: 11.29ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 240gr HP/XTP @1800fps Recoil: 14.48ft.lbs.
.44 Mag 300gr HP/XTP @1400fps Recoil: 12.66ft.lbs.
.30-30 170gr JFP @2000fps Recoil: 11.37ft.lbs.
.30-30 150gr JRN @2200fps Recoil: 11.14ft.lbs.


Since as I indicated above, these are maximum loads, you should be able to find loads that would produce less recoil in any given gun, if recoil is a problem for you. Also, such things as porting may reduce perceived recoil, or grip design may help some people, e.g. some people think cowboy style single action grip designs help - I for one DON'T! Anyway, hope this helps.

What would be the sound comparison between shooting these different calibers in a carbine? I'ver heard that the magnums are much louder than something like a 30-30.

Thanks,

Patrick

How come nobody added the 41 to this list?
There has to be one in every crowd.

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JABROWN
By the questions we pose, ourselves we deceive..........
So limited in thought, by what we choose to perceive...

I doubt it. You're burning less powder, in a larger bore, and the pressures aren't significantly different, maybe even less, comparing the 'handgun' rounds to a .30-30. Maybe a .454 Casull would change that..... some of the Rossi shooters would have to answer that.

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MikeG

How effective is barrel porting? Certainly it reduced muzzle flip, but is there a reduction in felt recoil, and how about accuracy and sight regulation. How are these affected with varying loads? Certainly many powerful revolvers sport high front sights due to the dwell time and energy involved. I'd just like a little more iinformation on the various ways barrel porting effects the shooting!

Thank you one and all!

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th' fish

Some years ago, I had a Smith K frame 19 .357 with 6" barrel. Recoil was sharp.

Later picked up a 629 with 8 3/8" barrel - 44 mag. Compared to the K frame, recoil is definitely heavier. The big Smith doesn't kick up as much as it kicks back. Definitely takes some getting used to.

Compare both to my old Desert Eagle Mk1 in 357. Recoil is negligible, maybe about like a Beretta 92. That one is actually fun to blast away with.